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#31
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
"Penelope Periwinkle" wrote in message ... On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:51:19 -0500, "Marie Dodge" wrote: No one I know has ever seen such an infestation of whitefly and spider mite, including the extension agent. Do they make dark shadows on your screens at night? Do you have to wear a bandana when you're working in the garden to avoid ingesting bunches of whiteflies with each breath? Yes. I must use a bandanna not to inhale them. I haven't looked at the window screens at night. Do they make pretty abstract patterns on the wall of the house where the morning sun first hits? Cause, that's what it was like when I moved into this house in June of 2001. The type we have do not leave the plants. Something was clearly out of whack with the food chain for such an explosion of the white fly population. And...spit! thrips, they were just not as obvious at first. So, I started releasing lacewings. The yard was horribly overgrown, so I also cut back or completely down shrubs and weedy trees that looked like they were especially overwhelmed by the whiteflies. I released some ladybugs, too, and the next spring released more lacewings and ladybugs. As I mentioned in another post. My ex-husband released these same "beneficials" plus a third (I can't recall the 3rd one) in the old garden where I used to live. In 48 hours we couldn't find one left! Not one, but the pests were still there. And even back then they were expensive. How did you keep them from flying away? I talked to my neighbors with varying success about not using broad spectrum pesticides, and made sure they all knew what ladybug and lacewing larva looked like. It took 2 years (and 3 summers) but things finally swung back into better balance. I still get a whitefly outbreak every summer, but I put yellow sticky traps out around the garden for a little extra protection, and let nature take its course elsewhere. Of course, I get all tingly and feel like an Uber Garden Geek when I find ladybug eggs or lacewing larva on a plant that has whitefly. I've been down right orgasmic over the proliferation of squirrel treefrogs this year, too. I'd like to know how you kept them in your garden. I know my ex-husband was bitterly disappointed they were all gone in 2 or maybe 3 days leaving him with a nice charge on his chargecard and the pests still there to deal with. I'm not sure what all was infesting that garden but do remember the cucumber beetles, root worms on the root crops, corn ear worms, SVBs, tomato horn worms and something that about wiped out the asparagus as he waited for the beneficials to arrive. He bought some pesticide from a local Co-op and sprayed the garden several times.... but that was apparently before all these insects and bugs developed immunity because it took care of the problem quickly. I remember the corn, rootcrops and squash being a total loss. He sprayed them too late but we did save the other crops. The heat, low humidity and lack of rain is certainly contributing to this infestation. In fact it's spreading across the grass, other wild plants and the trees on the property around us. It's spread to the flower beds. At this point trying to control the mite and w/flies is a waste of time. Yeah, we were in our fifth year of drought when I moved out here. I'm sure that contributed to the pest explosion. Something is, that's for sure. Oddly enough the two older gardens only have whitefly and are still producing. The garden with the spider-mite and WF is a total loss - and that's the new garden that laid fallow two years due to my accident. It's never been sprayed with anything. Penelope -- You have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years. - "pointed" |
#32
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
"John Savage" wrote in message ... "Marie Dodge" writes: Actually it says: "Flour preparations Flour mixed in water *is said to be* very effective against aphids and spider mites.." I'm curious, said by who? You might be interested in an aphid spray I use. 1 part denatured alcohol + 3 parts water. Spray onto the pests. They cease moving immediately, and more importantly, never move again. I have not found it to harm any plants, but there is nothing stopping you hosing it off 10 mins after applying if you wish, as by then it has done its job. As always, it would be wise to do a test spraying on just one plant initially, and then on the others 2 or 3 days later. I've found it ideal for killing aphids clustered on the tender new tips of plants such as roses and lemons. Thanks for the info John. Aphids haven't been a problem here at all but will try it if some appear. I haven't seen an aphid in ages. The 2-spotted spider mite and common Whitefly appear to be immune to everything including oils (summer and Neem). Today I noticed my prize Gardenia on the back porch has MEALY BUGS!!!!!!!! :*( Denatured alcohol is called "methylated spirits" here in Australia. It's just ethyl alcohol with a trace amount of an evil-tasting stuff to stop people drinking it and evading the alcohol tax. (You could use cheap vodka in place of the alcohol I suppose!!) You could try it on spider mite. I have used it on small grubs, but doubt that it would kill whitefly. We live out in the country so that's impossible. We're surrounded by woodland and underbrush, weeds and wildflowers. It would take thousands of dollars and aerial spraying would be required. But thanks for the info..... I read that aphids can over-winter on thistles. Skeptical, next winter I took a closer look. They sure do: the leaves were thick with aphids. Then I found one milk thistle with no aphids on its leaves. I pulled it up and found its roots clad in an overcoat with aphids! So one measure you could take is to make sure there are no milk thistles in fallow parts of your garden. -- John Savage (my news address is not valid for email) |
#33
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
"polecanoe" wrote in message ... marie: It sounds like you ruined your plants with all the sprays. Uh no, what ruined them is using useless organic sprays and powders, allowing the pests to reach proportions that no chemical can now control. By the time I turned to chemicals it was too late. The plants were too far gone with spider mites and the w/flies to save. Pro-organic rant snipped. |
#34
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
Hi All,
"Marie Dodge" wrote in message ... "Penelope Periwinkle" wrote in message ... On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:51:19 -0500, "Marie Dodge" wrote: No one I know has ever seen such an infestation of whitefly and spider mite, including the extension agent. Do they make dark shadows on your screens at night? Do you have to wear a bandana when you're working in the garden to avoid ingesting bunches of whiteflies with each breath? Yes. I must use a bandanna not to inhale them. I haven't looked at the window screens at night. Do they make pretty abstract patterns on the wall of the house where the morning sun first hits? Cause, that's what it was like when I moved into this house in June of 2001. The type we have do not leave the plants. Something was clearly out of whack with the food chain for such an explosion of the white fly population. And...spit! thrips, they were just not as obvious at first. So, I started releasing lacewings. The yard was horribly overgrown, so I also cut back or completely down shrubs and weedy trees that looked like they were especially overwhelmed by the whiteflies. I released some ladybugs, too, and the next spring released more lacewings and ladybugs. As I mentioned in another post. My ex-husband released these same "beneficials" plus a third (I can't recall the 3rd one) in the old garden where I used to live. In 48 hours we couldn't find one left! Not one, but the pests were still there. And even back then they were expensive. How did you keep them from flying away? I talked to my neighbors with varying success about not using broad spectrum pesticides, and made sure they all knew what ladybug and lacewing larva looked like. It took 2 years (and 3 summers) but things finally swung back into better balance. I still get a whitefly outbreak every summer, but I put yellow sticky traps out around the garden for a little extra protection, and let nature take its course elsewhere. Of course, I get all tingly and feel like an Uber Garden Geek when I find ladybug eggs or lacewing larva on a plant that has whitefly. I've been down right orgasmic over the proliferation of squirrel treefrogs this year, too. I'd like to know how you kept them in your garden. I know my ex-husband was bitterly disappointed they were all gone in 2 or maybe 3 days leaving him with a nice charge on his chargecard and the pests still there to deal with. I'm not sure what all was infesting that garden but do remember the cucumber beetles, root worms on the root crops, corn ear worms, SVBs, tomato horn worms and something that about wiped out the asparagus as he waited for the beneficials to arrive. He bought some pesticide from a local Co-op and sprayed the garden several times.... but that was apparently before all these insects and bugs developed immunity because it took care of the problem quickly. I remember the corn, rootcrops and squash being a total loss. He sprayed them too late but we did save the other crops. The heat, low humidity and lack of rain is certainly contributing to this infestation. In fact it's spreading across the grass, other wild plants and the trees on the property around us. It's spread to the flower beds. At this point trying to control the mite and w/flies is a waste of time. Yeah, we were in our fifth year of drought when I moved out here. I'm sure that contributed to the pest explosion. Something is, that's for sure. Oddly enough the two older gardens only have whitefly and are still producing. The garden with the spider-mite and WF is a total loss - and that's the new garden that laid fallow two years due to my accident. It's never been sprayed with anything. Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. Richard M. Watkin. Penelope -- You have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years. - "pointed" |
#35
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
"R M. Watkin" wrote in message ... Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. What is "washing up liquid" and why would it work when the other organic pesticides failed completely? Do you have any sites where experiments were done proving this washing-up-liquid actually works on WF and SP? |
#36
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:47:15 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote:
"R M. Watkin" wrote in message ... Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. What is "washing up liquid" and why would it work when the other organic pesticides failed completely? Do you have any sites where experiments were done proving this washing-up-liquid actually works on WF and SP? Soap you use for washing. You make a spray and wash away the aphids and other little buggers. Organic is great. Try Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap. Kills them dead. Or instead of poison, a cheaper alternative would be "Joy" or "Dawn". Whatever liquid dish soap you use for hand washing. If you get a sprayer, you can do it larger scale. Look for the problems, and spray/wash them away. p.s. Dish soap water also makes an excellent wasp killer. You can spray a nest overhead, with no worries about overspray. They can't fly, drop to the ground instantly, and die in seconds. http://www.drbronner.com/ stonerfish |
#37
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
"jellybean stonerfish" wrote in message ... On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:47:15 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote: "R M. Watkin" wrote in message ... Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. What is "washing up liquid" and why would it work when the other organic pesticides failed completely? Do you have any sites where experiments were done proving this washing-up-liquid actually works on WF and SP? Soap you use for washing. You make a spray and wash away the aphids and other little buggers. How do YOU wash them away in your gardens with detergents? Do you have a special high power sprayer made for such sprays? How do you kill them when they hit the ground? Step on them all? If you don't kill them once washed off they'll crawl and fly right back onto the plants. How do you manage to use enough pressure to dislodge them and not shread the leaves? Organic is great. Try Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap. Kills them dead. So you tried this Peppermint soap on both 2-spot-SpiderMites and Whitefly? Don't you remember I was told the other organic products would kill them dead and not one worked as claimed? Since all the other organic products failed, why would you think this one would work? Or instead of poison, a cheaper alternative would be "Joy" or "Dawn". Whatever liquid dish soap you use for hand washing. If you get a sprayer, you can do it larger scale. Look for the problems, and spray/wash them away. How did you wash them away? How many pounds of pressure did it take to dislodge your spider mites and whitefly? How did you wash off the nymphs without shredding the leaves due to pressure? Since you believe these organic potions work, please explain why all the others failed and how many more will be recommended as long as a person keeps trying them? Just wondering. From the website... this sounds like typical snake-oil: Dr. Bronner’s is Celebrating Our 60th Anniversary! 5 Generations and 150 Years of Soapmaking Excellence Marking the 60th Anniversary of the company, *Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps* is pleased to announce that all classic liquid & bar soaps......... p.s. Dish soap water also makes an excellent wasp killer. You can spray a nest overhead, with no worries about overspray. They can't fly, drop to the ground instantly, and die in seconds. Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an organic site selling "magic soaps?" http://www.drbronner.com/ stonerfish |
#38
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
Marie Dodge said:
Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an organic site selling "magic soaps?" Now you even have me believing you are in this for the trolling. Lady, soap solution kills insects. Kills them fast. Soap kills earwigs lickety split, even though actual over-the-counter poisons barely slow them down.. You have to be sure to cover them with soap spray. I have personally murdered hosts of earwigs and aphids with soap. And I have accidentally killed a few bees with it. If someone says he's killed wasps with soap spray, I'm inclined to believe him. The only caution is that soap can also damage plant leaves. And the solutionto *that* is to come back around and rinse the plants off after the pests are killed. Cornell sez: Insecticidal soap products work by smothering soft bodied pests and disrupting their cuticle layer. In order to be effective, it is necessary to thoroughly coat the pest. After the soap dries on the plant surface, insects and mites will not pick up a lethal dose. http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/res...mfs/12soap.php -- Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. |
#39
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
Hi Marie,
"Marie Dodge" wrote in message ... "R M. Watkin" wrote in message ... Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. What is "washing up liquid" and why would it work when the other organic pesticides failed completely? Do you have any sites where experiments were done proving this washing-up-liquid actually works on WF and SP? It is a liquid soap used for washing dishes in the U, K. It works for me that is all I can say. How it works I do not know. Hope this helps you. Richard M. Watkin. |
#40
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 01:48:58 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote:
Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an organic site selling "magic soaps?" The soap makes the water wetter. It soaks into their skin and they die. I think maybe they breath through their skin and this makes them drown. I don't know what happens, just that the soap kills them, and they are dead. And you don't need special soap for aphids or white flies. Because my friend is worried about chemicals, we used Dr. Bronners on her iris's, and gave them a quick wipe between fingers. Also we misted her mint and rosemary, with now fear of using them in the future. The white fly infestation is now gone. Now, about the wasps. My job is construction. Many times, when working at someones house, I will encounter a wasp nest. Someone showed me the soapy water trick many years ago. Fill a pan or large bowl with soapy water. Fling it on the wasp nest. Done. stonerfish |
#41
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
"Billy" wrote in message ... In article , "Marie Dodge" wrote: Ironite? You can live without it. Yes, but the plants cannot. Our soil was very low in Iron when tested. Liquid Chelated Iron 32 oz. Price: $10.95 Sulfur Powder 2 lb Price: $4.95 and no heavy metals No heavy metals in the sulfur powder either. -- Billy Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html |
#42
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message ... Marie Dodge said: Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an organic site selling "magic soaps?" Now you even have me believing you are in this for the trolling. Why? Because I ask questions after taking people's advice here and the products recommended no working? Why can't you accept the truth? Why should people keep going out and buying one product after the other when none worked before? Your ignorance is really surprising since the nymphs of these insects cannot be "washed off" like bits of mud or leaf litter. Lady, soap solution kills insects. Kills them fast. Soap kills earwigs lickety split, even though actual over-the-counter poisons barely slow them down.. You have to be sure to cover them with soap spray. I have personally murdered hosts of earwigs and aphids with soap. And I have accidentally killed a few bees with it. If someone says he's killed wasps with soap spray, I'm inclined to believe him. So non-toxic common soap kills them dead but no one knows this but a few people on Usenet? If soap killed silverleaf-whitefly and 2-spot spider mite dead, it would be well known all over the world by now. Thee two pests alone do millions of dollars worth of damage every year, both in the USA and SA. But no one but a few people here know soap kills them? The only caution is that soap can also damage plant leaves. And the solutionto *that* is to come back around and rinse the plants off after the pests are killed. To use enough pressure to dislodge the nymphs of WF and SMs will itself damage the leaves, shred them if not knock them off the plants completely. So tell them..... how much soap is used per gallon? At sundown I used a new sprayer and sprayed the plants with 1 TBS per gallon soap and 1 TBS per gallon flour as per one of the people here. All the WF and SP should be dead and gone in the morning according to you. You claim the soap will kill them dead whereas the nothing else did. We'll see. Cornell sez: Insecticidal soap products work by smothering soft bodied pests and disrupting their cuticle layer. In order to be effective, it is necessary to thoroughly coat the pest. After the soap dries on the plant surface, insects and mites will not pick up a lethal dose. Soap is cheap. I soaked the plants completely, top and bottom of the all leaves the spray wand reached - right down to the ground. http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/res...mfs/12soap.php The link above couldn't be reached (see below). I can't wait to read why farmers are losing millions of dollars a year to WF and SP by refusing to use Soap to kill them. Neem Oil is also supposed to kill them. Maybe I'll learn why they're not using that either but rather take great losses. Network Error (tcp_error) A communication error occurred: "Operation timed out" The Web Server may be down, too busy, or experiencing other problems preventing it from responding to requests. You may wish to try again at a later time. -- Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast) After enlightenment, the laundry. |
#43
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Pepper saga.......... Plants were checked.
"jellybean stonerfish" wrote in message ... On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 01:48:58 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote: Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an organic site selling "magic soaps?" The soap makes the water wetter. It soaks into their skin and they die. I think maybe they breath through their skin and this makes them drown. I don't know what happens, just that the soap kills them, and they are dead. And you don't need special soap for aphids or white flies. Because my friend is worried about chemicals, we used Dr. Bronners on her iris's, and gave them a quick wipe between fingers. Also we misted her mint and rosemary, with now fear of using them in the future. The white fly infestation is now gone. Well I sprayed all three gardens with Soap and flour as suggested here. I had nothng to lose since these products were in my home and are both cheap. We'll see if soap killed them.... in fact I'm taking the flashlight out there now and looking. OK... the plants were sprayed around 7 PM with 1 TBS each of flour and handsoap (Palmolive) per gallon of water in a brand new sprayer with a larger tip. Both sides of the leaves were sprayed. Sprayed were collards, jewel peppers, chard, tomatoes and a Ichabon eggplant. Only the Chard had spider mites and only a few plants are infested so far. The WF and SMs are still there and are alive. I could see them moving, walking over the residue of soap and flour when disturbed. They will not fly at night. They had 6 hours now to suffocate and die. The flour was supposed to somehow kill them also. The whole garden smells faintly of soap but I guess that's better than the Organicide which smelled like fish and didn't kill/smother them either. I'm just wondering what will be said next.... that it's the wrong brand of flour, the wrong kind of soap, wrong brand of soap and flour, wrong aroma, constancy of soap.....? I'm sure you can see my point. The second garden is now being destroyed by these pests and so far nothing had worked. Not one of you purely Organic people have explained why the Neem Oil, the Phyrethrum and the Organicide didn't do them any harm either. What's left to recommend now? How many more organic options are left? Now, about the wasps. My job is construction. Many times, when working at someones house, I will encounter a wasp nest. Someone showed me the soapy water trick many years ago. Fill a pan or large bowl with soapy water. Fling it on the wasp nest. Done. I can't try it on wasps since we don't have any here at the moment. But since the soap and flour didn't kill the WF and SMs, I would have to be out of my mind to toss it on wasps. You really need to tell people to try it on insects not dangerous to themselves before recommending they toss it on wasps. When it fails to kill the wasps as it did the WF and SMs, and the person is stung, they can go into shock and die. stonerfish |
#44
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Pepper saga.......... Pepper expert anyone?
"R M. Watkin" wrote in message ... Hi Marie, "Marie Dodge" wrote in message ... "R M. Watkin" wrote in message ... Try washing up liquid. It is cheap and effective. What is "washing up liquid" and why would it work when the other organic pesticides failed completely? Do you have any sites where experiments were done proving this washing-up-liquid actually works on WF and SP? It is a liquid soap used for washing dishes in the U, K. It works for me that is all I can say. How it works I do not know. Hope this helps you. Do you know what chemicals are in your soap there? The soap here in the USA doesn't kill them. I used Palmolive at the recommended dose. After 7 hours the SMs and WF are still there and still alive. Richard M. Watkin. |
#45
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Pepper saga.......... Plants were checked.
On Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:16:49 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote:
"jellybean stonerfish" wrote in message ... On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 01:48:58 -0500, Marie Dodge wrote: Why would soap kill them in seconds when it's not a poison? Have you done this yourself with wasps or is this something you read on an organic site selling "magic soaps?" The soap makes the water wetter. It soaks into their skin and they die. I think maybe they breath through their skin and this makes them drown. I don't know what happens, just that the soap kills them, and they are dead. And you don't need special soap for aphids or white flies. Because my friend is worried about chemicals, we used Dr. Bronners on her iris's, and gave them a quick wipe between fingers. Also we misted her mint and rosemary, with now fear of using them in the future. The white fly infestation is now gone. Well I sprayed all three gardens with Soap and flour as suggested here. I had nothng to lose since these products were in my home and are both cheap. We'll see if soap killed them.... in fact I'm taking the flashlight out there now and looking. Flour? I don't ever remember suggesting flour. Sounds messy. OK... the plants were sprayed around 7 PM with 1 TBS each of flour and handsoap (Palmolive) per gallon of water in a brand new sprayer with a larger tip. Both sides of the leaves were sprayed. Sprayed were collards, jewel peppers, chard, tomatoes and a Ichabon eggplant. Only the Chard had spider mites and only a few plants are infested so far. Ok, so you have some time and a flashlight. Wash the few plants with mites. Then do it again the next night. I don't know what the flour will do, except make things messy. The WF and SMs are still there and are alive. I could see them moving, walking over the residue of soap and flour when disturbed. They will not fly at night. They had 6 hours now to suffocate and die. The flour was supposed to somehow kill them also. The whole garden smells faintly of soap but I guess that's better than the Organicide which smelled like fish and didn't kill/smother them either. I'm just wondering what will be said next.... that it's the wrong brand of flour, the wrong kind of soap, wrong brand of soap and flour, wrong aroma, constancy of soap.....? I'm sure you can see my point. The second garden is now being destroyed by these pests and so far nothing had worked. Not one of you purely Organic people have explained why the Neem Oil, the Phyrethrum and the Organicide didn't do them any harm either. What's left to recommend now? How many more organic options are left? I don't know what to tell you. It seems like the bugs are your enemy. In your other post, where you mention birds, it sounds like they are your enemy too. Maybe you should go with astro-turf. Now, about the wasps. My job is construction. Many times, when You really need to tell people to try it on insects not dangerous to themselves before recommending they toss it on wasps. When it fails to kill the wasps as it did the WF and SMs, and the person is stung, they can go into shock and die. Be afraid, be very afraid..... stonerfish |
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