Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to have to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was laborious. I did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time consuming. Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon I will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car scissor jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but did not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few screws put it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5 carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats in. The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more apple juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a next time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

In message , George.com
writes
Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to have
to stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was laborious. I
did have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time consuming.
Its gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon
I will have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car scissor
jack (850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain
compression point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but did
not extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not
enough holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few screws
put it back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5 carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a
little bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add
yeats in. The final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some
more apple juice, sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a next time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Good Luck Rob. Am visiting NZ next Nov/Dec .... will look for your
competition to Benger's Gold Wild stuff :-))

--
Gopher .... I know my place! On the Dorset/Somerset border. Home of cider!

"Gopher" wrote in message
...
In message , George.com
writes
Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to have to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was laborious. I
did have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time consuming. Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon I will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car scissor
jack (850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression
point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but did not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few screws put
it back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5 carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats in. The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more apple
juice, sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a next
time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Good Luck Rob. Am visiting NZ next Nov/Dec .... will look for your
competition to Benger's Gold Wild stuff :-))

if the cider is rubbish, look out for a couple of kegs with your name on it.
roftl.

two things I forgot to add about the process - ******* flies and a sore
back.

rob

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to have to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was laborious. I did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time consuming. Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon I will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car scissor jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but did not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few screws put it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5 carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats in. The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more apple juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a next time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Try to keep the SO2 under 20 ppm at inoculation. Wine yeast are more
resistant to SO2 than wild yeast. The alternative is to hit the juice
with a large inoculation to swamp out wild yeast (note: wild yeast
aren't always bad but can be surprising).

1 lb potassium metabisulfite / 1 gallon of water = 5% solution SO2.
ppm x gallons x .063 = ml of 5% solution
This formula isn't exact because sugars and aldehydes suck up SO2.

If you want to keep some sweetness in the cider, the easiest thing is to
put the bottled cider in a refrigerator (40F - 4C) or sterile filter.
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7843430.stm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to have
to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was laborious. I
did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time consuming.
Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon I will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car scissor
jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but did
not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few screws put
it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5 carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats in. The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more apple
juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a next
time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Try to keep the SO2 under 20 ppm at inoculation. Wine yeast are more
resistant to SO2 than wild yeast. The alternative is to hit the juice
with a large inoculation to swamp out wild yeast (note: wild yeast
aren't always bad but can be surprising).

1 lb potassium metabisulfite / 1 gallon of water = 5% solution SO2.
ppm x gallons x .063 = ml of 5% solution
This formula isn't exact because sugars and aldehydes suck up SO2.

If you want to keep some sweetness in the cider, the easiest thing is to
put the bottled cider in a refrigerator (40F - 4C) or sterile filter.

the wild yeast brew has been sitting for 2 days now and the fermentation has
really (and I mean really) slowed down to the point of being almost non
active. Maybe either not enough yeast or not enough sugars. I will look at
pitching a little bit of yeast in to the stuff tomorrow maybe. See what that
does.

rob

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to have
to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was laborious. I
did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time consuming.
Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon I will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car scissor
jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but did
not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few screws put
it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5 carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats in. The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more apple
juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a next
time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Try to keep the SO2 under 20 ppm at inoculation. Wine yeast are more
resistant to SO2 than wild yeast. The alternative is to hit the juice
with a large inoculation to swamp out wild yeast (note: wild yeast
aren't always bad but can be surprising).

1 lb potassium metabisulfite / 1 gallon of water = 5% solution SO2.
ppm x gallons x .063 = ml of 5% solution
This formula isn't exact because sugars and aldehydes suck up SO2.

If you want to keep some sweetness in the cider, the easiest thing is to
put the bottled cider in a refrigerator (40F - 4C) or sterile filter.

the wild yeast brew has been sitting for 2 days now and the fermentation has
really (and I mean really) slowed down to the point of being almost non
active. Maybe either not enough yeast or not enough sugars. I will look at
pitching a little bit of yeast in to the stuff tomorrow maybe. See what that
does.

rob

Do you have a hydrometer to test for dissolved solids, i. e. sugar?
If the density is below -0.5, fermentation may be over. Apple juice
doesn't have that much sugar to begin with.
How do you start your inoculation? Use yeast to juice ratio of 1 kg /
1000 gal. Add hot water to juice and bring to 37C, add yeast, wait until
yeast foams or 20 minutes (which ever comes first), and add to juice.
A fermentation lock is helpful in keeping insects out and indicating
rapidity of fermentation.
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7843430.stm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of
work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to
have
to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the
neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was laborious.
I
did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time consuming.
Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon I
will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car
scissor
jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but did
not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not
enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few screws
put
it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5 carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a
little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats in.
The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more apple
juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a next
time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Try to keep the SO2 under 20 ppm at inoculation. Wine yeast are more
resistant to SO2 than wild yeast. The alternative is to hit the juice
with a large inoculation to swamp out wild yeast (note: wild yeast
aren't always bad but can be surprising).

1 lb potassium metabisulfite / 1 gallon of water = 5% solution SO2.
ppm x gallons x .063 = ml of 5% solution
This formula isn't exact because sugars and aldehydes suck up SO2.

If you want to keep some sweetness in the cider, the easiest thing is
to
put the bottled cider in a refrigerator (40F - 4C) or sterile filter.

the wild yeast brew has been sitting for 2 days now and the fermentation
has
really (and I mean really) slowed down to the point of being almost non
active. Maybe either not enough yeast or not enough sugars. I will look
at
pitching a little bit of yeast in to the stuff tomorrow maybe. See what
that
does.

rob

Do you have a hydrometer to test for dissolved solids, i. e. sugar?
If the density is below -0.5, fermentation may be over. Apple juice
doesn't have that much sugar to begin with.
How do you start your inoculation? Use yeast to juice ratio of 1 kg /
1000 gal. Add hot water to juice and bring to 37C, add yeast, wait until
yeast foams or 20 minutes (which ever comes first), and add to juice.
A fermentation lock is helpful in keeping insects out and indicating
rapidity of fermentation.

thanks for the info billy. my approach was more "close enough might be good
enough" and "she'll be right, maybe".

A couple of days fermentation is pretty short though isn't it? I mean, some
immediate activity and then slowing down to almost nothing.

rob

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of
work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to
have
to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the
neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was laborious.
I
did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time consuming.
Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon I
will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car
scissor
jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but did
not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not
enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few screws
put
it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5 carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a
little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats in.
The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more apple
juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a next
time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Try to keep the SO2 under 20 ppm at inoculation. Wine yeast are more
resistant to SO2 than wild yeast. The alternative is to hit the juice
with a large inoculation to swamp out wild yeast (note: wild yeast
aren't always bad but can be surprising).

1 lb potassium metabisulfite / 1 gallon of water = 5% solution SO2.
ppm x gallons x .063 = ml of 5% solution
This formula isn't exact because sugars and aldehydes suck up SO2.

If you want to keep some sweetness in the cider, the easiest thing is
to
put the bottled cider in a refrigerator (40F - 4C) or sterile filter.

the wild yeast brew has been sitting for 2 days now and the fermentation
has
really (and I mean really) slowed down to the point of being almost non
active. Maybe either not enough yeast or not enough sugars. I will look
at
pitching a little bit of yeast in to the stuff tomorrow maybe. See what
that
does.

rob

Do you have a hydrometer to test for dissolved solids, i. e. sugar?
If the density is below -0.5, fermentation may be over. Apple juice
doesn't have that much sugar to begin with.
How do you start your inoculation? Use yeast to juice ratio of 1 kg /
1000 gal. Add hot water to juice and bring to 37C, add yeast, wait until
yeast foams or 20 minutes (which ever comes first), and add to juice.
A fermentation lock is helpful in keeping insects out and indicating
rapidity of fermentation.

thanks for the info billy. my approach was more "close enough might be good
enough" and "she'll be right, maybe".

A couple of days fermentation is pretty short though isn't it? I mean, some
immediate activity and then slowing down to almost nothing.

rob

Depends on fermentation temperatures. 95F (35C) and it can finish
overnight (apple juice is about 13% sugar vs. grape juice at 26% and
up.) Still, you need a hydrometer to tell you where you are or put it in
a refrigerator, 40F - 32F (4C - OC) (and start drinking it now :O)
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7843430.stm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:20:43 +1300, "George.com"
wrote:


"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of
work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to
have
to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the
neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was laborious.
I
did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time consuming.
Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon I
will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car
scissor
jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but did
not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not
enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few screws
put
it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5 carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a
little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats in.
The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more apple
juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a next
time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Try to keep the SO2 under 20 ppm at inoculation. Wine yeast are more
resistant to SO2 than wild yeast. The alternative is to hit the juice
with a large inoculation to swamp out wild yeast (note: wild yeast
aren't always bad but can be surprising).

1 lb potassium metabisulfite / 1 gallon of water = 5% solution SO2.
ppm x gallons x .063 = ml of 5% solution
This formula isn't exact because sugars and aldehydes suck up SO2.

If you want to keep some sweetness in the cider, the easiest thing is
to
put the bottled cider in a refrigerator (40F - 4C) or sterile filter.

the wild yeast brew has been sitting for 2 days now and the fermentation
has
really (and I mean really) slowed down to the point of being almost non
active. Maybe either not enough yeast or not enough sugars. I will look
at
pitching a little bit of yeast in to the stuff tomorrow maybe. See what
that
does.

rob

Do you have a hydrometer to test for dissolved solids, i. e. sugar?
If the density is below -0.5, fermentation may be over. Apple juice
doesn't have that much sugar to begin with.
How do you start your inoculation? Use yeast to juice ratio of 1 kg /
1000 gal. Add hot water to juice and bring to 37C, add yeast, wait until
yeast foams or 20 minutes (which ever comes first), and add to juice.
A fermentation lock is helpful in keeping insects out and indicating
rapidity of fermentation.

thanks for the info billy. my approach was more "close enough might be good
enough" and "she'll be right, maybe".

A couple of days fermentation is pretty short though isn't it? I mean, some
immediate activity and then slowing down to almost nothing.

rob

Much to sort thru, but some info and ideas to get yer head thinking
about fermentation.........

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/view...c6df9c4638bcd1
71e81e50

(covers the range from prisonjack to Hi Q cider.... ;-)

I've two batches going now, but from concentrate, not from fresh
pressed, wrong season (found some flash pastuerized cider today at the
local market, three gallons would cost me over thirty dollars U$).

Next year is a different story. I like your idea of using a scissor
jack or bottle jack....thanks for the ideas and experiences.

I pulled a sample from my first batch yesterday. It had been
fermenting 8 days and is down to one burp every thirty-five secs. I'll
send it to secondary fermention next week. It was dry and didn't have
much apple taste (I don't have a very refined palate when it comes to
"wines"). It had more of a chablis/white zin taste to my unrefined
palate. I am considering addition of more juice to the secondary
fermentation to sweeten it.

All in all, this has been fun and a good education. That is what I am
enjoying....that DYI thingie.

I used champagne yeast and no sulfites.

Charlie

Cider is like wine in that different sweetnesses do different jobs.
Dry cider is good with a meal that would take a white wine. Sweet cider
will go with desserts and sipping wit' your homies, and cidre bouche
(sparkling) is for special occassions. Like when you are out with your
sweety.
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7843430.stm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

"Charlie" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:20:43 +1300, "George.com"
wrote:


"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of
work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to
have
to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the
neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was
laborious.
I
did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time
consuming.
Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon I
will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car
scissor
jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression
point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but
did
not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to
the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not
enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few
screws
put
it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5 carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a
little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats
in.
The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more apple
juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a next
time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Try to keep the SO2 under 20 ppm at inoculation. Wine yeast are more
resistant to SO2 than wild yeast. The alternative is to hit the juice
with a large inoculation to swamp out wild yeast (note: wild yeast
aren't always bad but can be surprising).

1 lb potassium metabisulfite / 1 gallon of water = 5% solution SO2.
ppm x gallons x .063 = ml of 5% solution
This formula isn't exact because sugars and aldehydes suck up SO2.

If you want to keep some sweetness in the cider, the easiest thing is
to
put the bottled cider in a refrigerator (40F - 4C) or sterile filter.

the wild yeast brew has been sitting for 2 days now and the
fermentation
has
really (and I mean really) slowed down to the point of being almost non
active. Maybe either not enough yeast or not enough sugars. I will look
at
pitching a little bit of yeast in to the stuff tomorrow maybe. See what
that
does.

rob

Do you have a hydrometer to test for dissolved solids, i. e. sugar?
If the density is below -0.5, fermentation may be over. Apple juice
doesn't have that much sugar to begin with.
How do you start your inoculation? Use yeast to juice ratio of 1 kg /
1000 gal. Add hot water to juice and bring to 37C, add yeast, wait until
yeast foams or 20 minutes (which ever comes first), and add to juice.
A fermentation lock is helpful in keeping insects out and indicating
rapidity of fermentation.

thanks for the info billy. my approach was more "close enough might be
good
enough" and "she'll be right, maybe".

A couple of days fermentation is pretty short though isn't it? I mean,
some
immediate activity and then slowing down to almost nothing.

rob

Much to sort thru, but some info and ideas to get yer head thinking
about fermentation.........

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/view...bcd171e8 1e50

(covers the range from prisonjack to Hi Q cider.... ;-)

I've two batches going now, but from concentrate, not from fresh
pressed, wrong season (found some flash pastuerized cider today at the
local market, three gallons would cost me over thirty dollars U$).

Next year is a different story. I like your idea of using a scissor
jack or bottle jack....thanks for the ideas and experiences.

got the idea here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0fvkiSHOsY His frame looks
no stronger than mine & his jack is a 4 ton (mine is 850 kg). Maybe he used
stronger pine timber. He wasn't try to press as much, as far, as I was. His
press cost 40 euros, mine was about 1/3 the cost so maybe cheap = shit.
Roftl.

I pulled a sample from my first batch yesterday. It had been
fermenting 8 days and is down to one burp every thirty-five secs. I'll
send it to secondary fermention next week. It was dry and didn't have
much apple taste (I don't have a very refined palate when it comes to
"wines"). It had more of a chablis/white zin taste to my unrefined
palate. I am considering addition of more juice to the secondary
fermentation to sweeten it.

All in all, this has been fun and a good education. That is what I am
enjoying....that DYI thingie.

I want my cider to taste like the natural brewed stuff I have enjoyed
occasionlly form small brewers. I don't want it to taste like the ********
commercial stuff I have tasted occasionly. DIY, great eh. 3 days of hard
work to make some nice tasting cider, only to have the ******* thing stop
fermenting. Not roftl.

rob

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of
work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to
have
to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the
neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was
laborious.
I
did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time
consuming.
Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon
I
will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car
scissor
jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression
point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but
did
not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to
the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not
enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few
screws
put
it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5
carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a
little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats
in.
The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more
apple
juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a
next
time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Try to keep the SO2 under 20 ppm at inoculation. Wine yeast are more
resistant to SO2 than wild yeast. The alternative is to hit the
juice
with a large inoculation to swamp out wild yeast (note: wild yeast
aren't always bad but can be surprising).

1 lb potassium metabisulfite / 1 gallon of water = 5% solution SO2.
ppm x gallons x .063 = ml of 5% solution
This formula isn't exact because sugars and aldehydes suck up SO2.

If you want to keep some sweetness in the cider, the easiest thing
is
to
put the bottled cider in a refrigerator (40F - 4C) or sterile
filter.

the wild yeast brew has been sitting for 2 days now and the
fermentation
has
really (and I mean really) slowed down to the point of being almost
non
active. Maybe either not enough yeast or not enough sugars. I will
look
at
pitching a little bit of yeast in to the stuff tomorrow maybe. See
what
that
does.

rob

Do you have a hydrometer to test for dissolved solids, i. e. sugar?
If the density is below -0.5, fermentation may be over. Apple juice
doesn't have that much sugar to begin with.
How do you start your inoculation? Use yeast to juice ratio of 1 kg /
1000 gal. Add hot water to juice and bring to 37C, add yeast, wait
until
yeast foams or 20 minutes (which ever comes first), and add to juice.
A fermentation lock is helpful in keeping insects out and indicating
rapidity of fermentation.

thanks for the info billy. my approach was more "close enough might be
good
enough" and "she'll be right, maybe".

A couple of days fermentation is pretty short though isn't it? I mean,
some
immediate activity and then slowing down to almost nothing.

rob

Depends on fermentation temperatures. 95F (35C) and it can finish
overnight (apple juice is about 13% sugar vs. grape juice at 26% and
up.) Still, you need a hydrometer to tell you where you are or put it in
a refrigerator, 40F - 32F (4C - OC) (and start drinking it now :O)

I checked the gravity this afternoon &b this evening. The 2 wild/cultured
yeast batches were about 1.40 and the wild yeast about the same. That should
be enough sugar to continue the fermentation for a wee while. The wild yeast
batch has started bubbling away today quite quickly. I will monitor its
progress over the next few days. One jug of wild/cultured yeast has started
fermenting again after I pitched in some extra yeast, the other jug has not
gotten started yet. The jug of sulphited & cultured yeast has not started
fermenting yet but I only yeasted last night. Given the gravity, the problem
may have been with the yeast.

I should have checked the gravity on the sunday but only buying a hydrometer
on Monday kind of made that difficult. On well. Maybe the 'close enough'
rule of thumb is a little bit arbitary eh.

rob

"George.com" wrote in
:

I checked the gravity this afternoon &b this evening. The 2
wild/cultured yeast batches were about 1.40 and the wild yeast
about the same. That should be enough sugar to continue the
fermentation for a wee while. The wild yeast batch has started
bubbling away today quite quickly. I will monitor its progress
over the next few days. One jug of wild/cultured yeast has
started fermenting again after I pitched in some extra yeast,
the other jug has not gotten started yet. The jug of sulphited &
cultured yeast has not started fermenting yet but I only yeasted
last night. Given the gravity, the problem may have been with
the yeast.

what are your fermenting temperatures?

I should have checked the gravity on the sunday but only buying
a hydrometer on Monday kind of made that difficult. On well.
Maybe the 'close enough' rule of thumb is a little bit arbitary
eh.

i hope you bought more than *one* hydrometer. they break very
easily & usually exactly when you really *need* one. we have at
least 4, 2 in the brewery & 2 in the saphouse (although there may
only be one in the saphouse because we broke one again recently...)
i'd better do an inventory. sap's runnin'!
lee maple beer!

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
.
..
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of
work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to
have
to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the
neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was
laborious.
I
did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time
consuming.
Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon
I
will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car
scissor
jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression
point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but
did
not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to
the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not
enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few
screws
put
it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5
carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a
little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats
in.
The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more
apple
juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a
next
time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Try to keep the SO2 under 20 ppm at inoculation. Wine yeast are more
resistant to SO2 than wild yeast. The alternative is to hit the
juice
with a large inoculation to swamp out wild yeast (note: wild yeast
aren't always bad but can be surprising).

1 lb potassium metabisulfite / 1 gallon of water = 5% solution SO2.
ppm x gallons x .063 = ml of 5% solution
This formula isn't exact because sugars and aldehydes suck up SO2.

If you want to keep some sweetness in the cider, the easiest thing
is
to
put the bottled cider in a refrigerator (40F - 4C) or sterile
filter.

the wild yeast brew has been sitting for 2 days now and the
fermentation
has
really (and I mean really) slowed down to the point of being almost
non
active. Maybe either not enough yeast or not enough sugars. I will
look
at
pitching a little bit of yeast in to the stuff tomorrow maybe. See
what
that
does.

rob

Do you have a hydrometer to test for dissolved solids, i. e. sugar?
If the density is below -0.5, fermentation may be over. Apple juice
doesn't have that much sugar to begin with.
How do you start your inoculation? Use yeast to juice ratio of 1 kg /
1000 gal. Add hot water to juice and bring to 37C, add yeast, wait
until
yeast foams or 20 minutes (which ever comes first), and add to juice.
A fermentation lock is helpful in keeping insects out and indicating
rapidity of fermentation.

thanks for the info billy. my approach was more "close enough might be
good
enough" and "she'll be right, maybe".

A couple of days fermentation is pretty short though isn't it? I mean,
some
immediate activity and then slowing down to almost nothing.

rob

Depends on fermentation temperatures. 95F (35C) and it can finish
overnight (apple juice is about 13% sugar vs. grape juice at 26% and
up.) Still, you need a hydrometer to tell you where you are or put it in
a refrigerator, 40F - 32F (4C - OC) (and start drinking it now :O)

I checked the gravity this afternoon &b this evening. The 2 wild/cultured
yeast batches were about 1.40 and the wild yeast about the same. That should
be enough sugar to continue the fermentation for a wee while. The wild yeast
batch has started bubbling away today quite quickly. I will monitor its
progress over the next few days. One jug of wild/cultured yeast has started
fermenting again after I pitched in some extra yeast, the other jug has not
gotten started yet. The jug of sulphited & cultured yeast has not started
fermenting yet but I only yeasted last night. Given the gravity, the problem
may have been with the yeast.

I should have checked the gravity on the sunday but only buying a hydrometer
on Monday kind of made that difficult. On well. Maybe the 'close enough'
rule of thumb is a little bit arbitary eh.

rob

It could be that you added too much SO2 but a two day delay is no
biggie. If it doesn't start in another couple of days, try splashing
(aeration) it into a bucket and then back into an un-gassed fermentation
vessel. Then wait another couple of days before you panic. Other wise,
add small amounts to fermenting batches over a few days.
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7843430.stm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
.
..
In article ,
"George.com" wrote:

Any of yous tried making cider before?

This weekend just gone I got about making up some cider. 3 days of
work
yielded 22 litres. An interesting experience but one I am going to
have
to
stream line if I do it next time around.

The apples were free, scavenged from a few trees round the
neighbourhood.

Cleaning them was no problem, dunking in a big tub.

Cutting them up and cutting out the odd bad bit or bug was
laborious.
I
did
have some help at one stage which speeded things up a bit.

Shredding the apple pieces in a kitchen whizz was also time
consuming.
Its
gets easier the longer you go on. But. If done every year I reckon
I
will
have to make some sort of apple scratterer.

Then came the pressing. Roftl (not).

I had made up a frame from old off cut pine 4 x 2 to hold a car
scissor
jack
(850 kg limit) and an old chilly bin with a hole cut in the end.

Worked ok to start with however the hole was too small to let all
thenjuice
out and it filled up the chilly bin past a certain compression
point.

From there I borrowed a (small) grape press. Worked to a point but
did
not
extract as much juice as I hoped.

So, I drilled holes in a 10 litre plastic bucket and went back to
the
scissor jack press. Got more juice than the hand press. Still not
enough
holes though. Near the bottom of compression the frame cracked.

Drilled more holes in the bucket and strengthened the frame.

Next press was the best yet.

After a bit more stress the frame came apart at one end. A few
screws
put
it
back together.

A couple of final presses and 22 litres were deposited in 5
carboys.

2 are relying on natural yeasts for fermentation. One I will add a
little
bit of extra yeast in to. One I have sulphited and will add yeats
in.
The
final carboy is only 1/2 full. I will have to cut in some more
apple
juice,
sulphite and then add yeast.

Interesting exercise. Note to self for next time (if there is a
next
time).

Build an apple scratterer.
Build a sturdier frame
Use a bottle jack with maybe 1 ton plus capacity
Find a really good basket to hold the pulped apple juice.
Hope the finished cider is worth all the effort.

Worth trying from start to finish at least once though.

rob

Try to keep the SO2 under 20 ppm at inoculation. Wine yeast are more
resistant to SO2 than wild yeast. The alternative is to hit the
juice
with a large inoculation to swamp out wild yeast (note: wild yeast
aren't always bad but can be surprising).

1 lb potassium metabisulfite / 1 gallon of water = 5% solution SO2.
ppm x gallons x .063 = ml of 5% solution
This formula isn't exact because sugars and aldehydes suck up SO2.

If you want to keep some sweetness in the cider, the easiest thing
is
to
put the bottled cider in a refrigerator (40F - 4C) or sterile
filter.

the wild yeast brew has been sitting for 2 days now and the
fermentation
has
really (and I mean really) slowed down to the point of being almost
non
active. Maybe either not enough yeast or not enough sugars. I will
look
at
pitching a little bit of yeast in to the stuff tomorrow maybe. See
what
that
does.

rob

Do you have a hydrometer to test for dissolved solids, i. e. sugar?
If the density is below -0.5, fermentation may be over. Apple juice
doesn't have that much sugar to begin with.
How do you start your inoculation? Use yeast to juice ratio of 1 kg /
1000 gal. Add hot water to juice and bring to 37C, add yeast, wait
until
yeast foams or 20 minutes (which ever comes first), and add to juice.
A fermentation lock is helpful in keeping insects out and indicating
rapidity of fermentation.

thanks for the info billy. my approach was more "close enough might be
good
enough" and "she'll be right, maybe".

A couple of days fermentation is pretty short though isn't it? I mean,
some
immediate activity and then slowing down to almost nothing.

rob

Depends on fermentation temperatures. 95F (35C) and it can finish
overnight (apple juice is about 13% sugar vs. grape juice at 26% and
up.) Still, you need a hydrometer to tell you where you are or put it in
a refrigerator, 40F - 32F (4C - OC) (and start drinking it now :O)

I checked the gravity this afternoon &b this evening. The 2 wild/cultured
yeast batches were about 1.40 and the wild yeast about the same. That should
be enough sugar to continue the fermentation for a wee while. The wild yeast
batch has started bubbling away today quite quickly. I will monitor its
progress over the next few days. One jug of wild/cultured yeast has started
fermenting again after I pitched in some extra yeast, the other jug has not
gotten started yet. The jug of sulphited & cultured yeast has not started
fermenting yet but I only yeasted last night. Given the gravity, the problem
may have been with the yeast.

I should have checked the gravity on the sunday but only buying a hydrometer
on Monday kind of made that difficult. On well. Maybe the 'close enough'
rule of thumb is a little bit arbitary eh.

rob

Oh, the hydrometer, it should go to at least -1.5.
--

Billy
Republican and Democratic "Leadership" Behind Bars
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7843430.stm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net

"enigma" wrote in message
...
"George.com" wrote in
:

I checked the gravity this afternoon &b this evening. The 2
wild/cultured yeast batches were about 1.40 and the wild yeast
about the same. That should be enough sugar to continue the
fermentation for a wee while. The wild yeast batch has started
bubbling away today quite quickly. I will monitor its progress
over the next few days. One jug of wild/cultured yeast has
started fermenting again after I pitched in some extra yeast,
the other jug has not gotten started yet. The jug of sulphited &
cultured yeast has not started fermenting yet but I only yeasted
last night. Given the gravity, the problem may have been with
the yeast.

what are your fermenting temperatures?

I should have checked the gravity on the sunday but only buying
a hydrometer on Monday kind of made that difficult. On well.
Maybe the 'close enough' rule of thumb is a little bit arbitary
eh.

i hope you bought more than *one* hydrometer. they break very
easily & usually exactly when you really *need* one.

temperature is roughly room temperature. We have been having shitey muggy
weather of around 27-30 but with high humidity. That may be something to do
with the yeast being lazy. Who knows. The muggy weather is due to blow away
tomorrow onward & become sunny again. Will see if that makes a difference. I
the interim I have added some more yeast tonight. If nothing again I will
give it a good stir in a day or 2, maybe invert the bottle a few times.
Gravity is reading around 140 for all 4 bottles so no lack of sugar. The
hydrometer is not duff as it read 1000 in a bottle of tap water.

rob