Hi group,

We ordered two trees from a local landscaping company who also
installed them for us. We didn't know of the variety of these two
trees. We showed them pictures that we took of the trees we liked.
We were naive thinking that since they are the expert they would know
to select the right trees. The first one was a river birch with lots
of peeling barks. The one we got had a tag which says "river birch
triple clumps" and does not have much peeling barks. We googled
"river birch triple clumps" but couldn't find anything about it. The
second one was a kousa dogwood with 2"+ flowers/bracts. The tree that
was delivered to us has very tiny flowers like 1/2"

Any info you can give us regarding river birch triple clumps and/or
kousa dogwood with very small flower bracts? Thanks so much for your
help.

Sincerely
A.

On Apr 7, 7:11*am, wrote:
Hi group,

We ordered two trees from a local landscaping company who also
installed them for us. *We didn't know of the variety of these two
trees. *We showed them pictures that we took of the trees we liked.
We were naive thinking that since they are the expert they would know
to select the right trees. *The first one was a river birch with lots
of peeling barks. *The one we got had a tag which says "river birch
triple clumps" and does not have much peeling barks. *We googled
"river birch triple clumps" but couldn't find anything about it. *The
second one was a kousa dogwood with 2"+ flowers/bracts. *The tree that
was delivered to us has very tiny flowers like 1/2"

Any info you can give us regarding river birch triple clumps and/or
kousa dogwood with very small flower bracts? *Thanks so much for your
help.

Sincerely
A.

I'm assuming the pictures you took were of trees already well-
established in gardens? The appearance of a tree well-established and
with some maturity will often look quite different from the same
selection in a nursery setting or a brand new young specimen. Like
teenage kids, they tend to grow into themselves and develop all their
attributes with age......it's not an immediate thing :-)

Clump birches are often "created" by the grower - they take multiple
saplings and plant them together in the same container or planting
hole, so they grow as if they were a multi-trunked tree. It's quite
common, as multi-trunked trees do not occur that way naturally with
great frequency. And all birches develop their bark features with
age.

Kousas also grow in to their flower size - most will produce quite
large bracts (2" is pretty modest, really) but again they require time
to establish and mature. The pink flowering selections do tend to have
slightly smaller flowers compared to the whites.

You just need some patience :-) If the trees are healthy, well-formed
and planted well under the proper conditions, they will eventually
grow into what you expect.

wrote in message
...
Hi group,

We ordered two trees from a local landscaping company who also
installed them for us. We didn't know of the variety of these two
trees. We showed them pictures that we took of the trees we liked.
We were naive thinking that since they are the expert they would know
to select the right trees. The first one was a river birch with lots
of peeling barks. The one we got had a tag which says "river birch
triple clumps" and does not have much peeling barks. We googled
"river birch triple clumps" but couldn't find anything about it. The
second one was a kousa dogwood with 2"+ flowers/bracts. The tree that
was delivered to us has very tiny flowers like 1/2"

Any info you can give us regarding river birch triple clumps and/or
kousa dogwood with very small flower bracts? Thanks so much for your
help.


River Birch can be grown as a clump or single trunk. There are varietals,
some white barked, some bronze barked, some a mixture of the two. Often the
bark doesn't begin to peel in a pronounced manner until the tree matures,
you don't mention the size of yours but they can get quite large. I have
quite a few birch on my property, some are in pure stands and others are
loners. Some prefer to have their feet wet, other's will rot with excessive
moisture.

I don't presently have any dogwood but I've had them previously. I've found
dogwood can present many problems and they are not a particularly long lived
tree (perhaps 50 yrs) and are susceptible to many diseases and insect
damage. You can't make much judgement by the size of the dogwood blooms,
they vary greatly in size/quality from tree to tree, and year to year on the
same tree.

You'll have to have patience, trees develop very slowly... even though
nurseries make claims of fast growing, it's all relevant, birch is not
really a very fast growing tree... it tends to grow almost a foot a year
when very young (once a transplant becomes established) but its growth rate
will slow very substantially with maturity, some years it will actually lose
height and breadth as branches decay and fall, and of course trees require
some pruning.

Here is a nice specimen in front of my gardening shed; fall foliage Nov
2007:

http://i44.tinypic.com/nqs37n.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ajqi45.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/23tfol0.jpg

That same birch in May, in front of my shed, actually the garage with my
rental but I took it over as a gardening shed... that tree is not so
impressive as in fall... the uncut strip of lawn hides a small stream that
passes my vegetable garden and keeps it watered, that birch seems to like
wet:

http://i44.tinypic.com/2q16zwx.jpg


Anytime you want a specimen planting I strongly suggest you go to the
nursery and choose your own.

"gardengal" wrote :

Clump birches are often "created" by the grower - they take multiple
saplings and plant them together in the same container or planting
hole, so they grow as if they were a multi-trunked tree. It's quite
common, as multi-trunked trees do not occur that way naturally with
great frequency.

That's just not true. The number of trunks of clump birch is created by
selective pruning, not by planting multiple trees (could be done but no
reputible nursery would, that would be cheating), planting a number of birch
close together does not a clump birch make... usually only the most dominant
will survive, the rest will eventually die. Many trees develop multiple
trunks naturally... I have a number of such trees growing on my property,
too many birch to count... I have a huge maple that naturally grows
multi-trunked, forest pansy redbud does also. All one need do is search
multi trunk trees.

On Apr 7, 9:26*am, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"gardengal" wrote :

Clump birches are often "created" by the grower - they take multiple
saplings and plant them together in the same container or planting
hole, so they grow as if they were a multi-trunked tree. It's quite
common, as multi-trunked trees do not occur that way naturally with
great frequency.

That's just not true. *The number of trunks of clump birch is created by
selective pruning, not by planting multiple trees (could be done but no
reputible nursery would, that would be cheating), planting a number of birch
close together does not a clump birch make... usually only the most dominant
will survive, the rest will eventually die. *

So I guess 20+ years in the nursery industry, both in retail sales, as
a buyer and as a wholesale grower, speaks for nothing? Unfortunately,
you don't quite know what you're talking about.

"Reputable" nurseries do it all the time - it is an extremely common
practice to develop clump-form trees at rather young ages that would
take years to produce naturally. There's no "cheating" about it - it
is a common practice that is done with a variety of tree species to
create the look of a multiple trunked tree. And many birches, Betula
nigra in particular, do not produce multiple trunks readily in the
wild - they tend to be single trunk specimens under these conditions
although they do often grow in colonies. Pruning does not create the
same effect as it only encourages suckering shoots which seldom grow
into strong trunks. If you were to investigate the propagation methods
and separate the trunks of most of the commercially available "clump"
birches, you would find them growing as individual trees.

From Ohio State:
"Birches are usually produced and sold in clump form (also known as
multitrunked or multistemmed form), rather than tree form (also known
as singletrunked form), to further showcase their best ornamental
feature, namely their showy bark. In forest settings, singletrunked
forms predominate, which is the case for most shade or timber trees."

Note the word "produced".

and from a landscape nursery:
"Birches are usually clumped in multiples of three, four or five for
appearance sake. Clumping usually produces a tree with a crown or top
growth equal to a single tree with three smaller trunks. Single trees
can be clumped easier when smaller than as larger plants. If single
plants are to be clumped, carefully remove some of the soil around the
root system before planting. Water thoroughly after planting."

This technique, also known as "bundle planting", is very common in
Europe and has been for many years.
"The bundle planting technique is not new. Evelyn recommended it in
the 17th century to create wide spreading crowns quickly. Despite the
relatively common existence of notable specimens in earlier designed
landscape and specimens growing naturally in almost every semi-natural
woodland, many of today's designers hold a curious suspicion that
trees, other than birch do not grow well in bundles. Or is it that
they have just gone out of fashion or are not readily available?"

Thank you all for the prompt and helpful responses. To the poster
with the pictures, I envy your large "yard" :-) and yes, next time I
will know better and go pick them out myself with the exact and proper
scientific names instead of just pictures.

And yes the pictures were taken from established gardens. Also, the
two trees we bought are pretty large size. The river birch is around
15 feet and the dogwood is around 12 feet. We have these trees for
almost 1.5 years, and they are still under "warranty" so we want to
make sure we get the right ones. I would hate to have waited 10 years
and found out they are not what I want

I don't know how to post a picture yet. When I do, I will try to post
them so you can help me identify the exact variety.

Thanks, all, again.
A.

In article
,
wrote:

Thank you all for the prompt and helpful responses. To the poster
with the pictures, I envy your large "yard" :-) and yes, next time I
will know better and go pick them out myself with the exact and proper
scientific names instead of just pictures.

And yes the pictures were taken from established gardens. Also, the
two trees we bought are pretty large size. The river birch is around
15 feet and the dogwood is around 12 feet. We have these trees for
almost 1.5 years, and they are still under "warranty" so we want to
make sure we get the right ones. I would hate to have waited 10 years
and found out they are not what I want

I don't know how to post a picture yet. When I do, I will try to post
them so you can help me identify the exact variety.

Thanks, all, again.
A.

Look at http://tinypic.com/

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Not all who wander are lost.
- J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)

Some Hopi gardener said, "This is not about growing vegetables; it
is about growing kids."

"gardengal" wrote in message
...
On Apr 7, 9:26 am, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"gardengal" wrote :

Clump birches are often "created" by the grower - they take multiple
saplings and plant them together in the same container or planting
hole, so they grow as if they were a multi-trunked tree. It's quite
common, as multi-trunked trees do not occur that way naturally with
great frequency.

That's just not true. The number of trunks of clump birch is created by
selective pruning, not by planting multiple trees (could be done but no
reputible nursery would, that would be cheating), planting a number of
birch
close together does not a clump birch make... usually only the most
dominant
will survive, the rest will eventually die.

So I guess 20+ years in the nursery industry, both in retail sales, as
a buyer and as a wholesale grower, speaks for nothing?



In 20 years you obviously learned nothing, and you never will learn
anything, because
those who think all knowledge begins and ends with their own are the most
ignorant. You're a verbose weasler is all... when you can't out think em
you out type em.

atptmt wrote:

Thank you all for the prompt and helpful responses. To the poster
with the pictures, I envy your large "yard" :-) and yes, next time I
will know better and go pick them out myself with the exact and proper
scientific names instead of just pictures.

And yes the pictures were taken from established gardens. Also, the
two trees we bought are pretty large size. The river birch is around
15 feet and the dogwood is around 12 feet. We have these trees for
almost 1.5 years, and they are still under "warranty" so we want to
make sure we get the right ones. I would hate to have waited 10 years
and found out they are not what I want

I don't know how to post a picture yet. When I do, I will try to post
them so you can help me identify the exact variety.


For trees that size you probably paid a goodly amount, and nearly as much
again for professional planting (which really mostly means they have the
truck to transport the trees and large moving and digging machines). Don't
be quick to give up on them, give them a chance to get over transplant shock
(will be like three years) and to begin showing decent growth. After like
5-7 years I'm certain you will like them... very few local nurseries that
sell that caliper tree and plant them will cheat you. I'm looking forward
to seeing your pictures... check out: tinypic.com

In article ,
Jangchub wrote:

On Tue, 07 Apr 2009 21:28:03 GMT, "brooklyn1"
wrote:


In 20 years you obviously learned nothing, and you never will learn
anything, because
those who think all knowledge begins and ends with their own are the most
ignorant. You're a verbose weasler is all... when you can't out think em
you out type em.


Every time I think of your name I think of the scene in When Harry Met
Sally...oh Sheldon, bang me hard, Sheldon. Hahahaha. Yeah, Sheldon.
You go girl.
Victoria


These modern mating rituals are beyond me. I think I'll just tip-toe
away.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

On Apr 7, 2:28*pm, "brooklyn1" wrote:
"gardengal" wrote in message

...
On Apr 7, 9:26 am, "brooklyn1" wrote:

"gardengal" wrote :

Clump birches are often "created" by the grower - they take multiple
saplings and plant them together in the same container or planting
hole, so they grow as if they were a multi-trunked tree. It's quite
common, as multi-trunked trees do not occur that way naturally with
great frequency.

That's just not true. The number of trunks of clump birch is created by
selective pruning, not by planting multiple trees (could be done but no
reputible nursery would, that would be cheating), planting a number of
birch
close together does not a clump birch make... usually only the most
dominant
will survive, the rest will eventually die.

So I guess 20+ years in the nursery industry, both in retail sales, as
a buyer and as a wholesale grower, speaks for nothing?

In 20 years you obviously learned nothing, and you never will learn
anything, because
*those who think all knowledge begins and ends with their own are the most
ignorant. *You're a verbose weasler is all... when you can't out think em
you out type em.

Sweet cheeks, it doesn't take much to out think you :-) Your lack of
knowledge about plant matters is only exceeded by your perception that
you have any. So keep on posting your misinformation and I'll keep on
correcting you.

This could be fun!!

Hi again,

I could not find the pictures I took of my river birch last summer so
I had to retake and unfortunately there is no leaf on the tree now.
So I'm not sure how useful it is with the identification, but to show
the difference in the amount of barks my river birch and the river
birch that I like have look at:

My river birch: http://i43.tinypic.com/2dvijxg.jpg

The river birch that I like: http://i41.tinypic.com/2s0hilg.jpg

wrote in
.
com:

Hi again,

I could not find the pictures I took of my river birch last
summer so I had to retake and unfortunately there is no leaf on
the tree now. So I'm not sure how useful it is with the
identification, but to show the difference in the amount of
barks my river birch and the river birch that I like have look
at:

My river birch: http://i43.tinypic.com/2dvijxg.jpg

The river birch that I like: http://i41.tinypic.com/2s0hilg.jpg

yours are just young. they will eventually look like the ones you
like. just give them a few years & they'll start looking more & more
as you like them.
lee

"enigma" wrote in message
...
wrote in
.
com:

Hi again,

I could not find the pictures I took of my river birch last
summer so I had to retake and unfortunately there is no leaf on
the tree now. So I'm not sure how useful it is with the
identification, but to show the difference in the amount of
barks my river birch and the river birch that I like have look
at:

My river birch: http://i43.tinypic.com/2dvijxg.jpg

The river birch that I like: http://i41.tinypic.com/2s0hilg.jpg

yours are just young. they will eventually look like the ones you
like. just give them a few years & they'll start looking more & more
as you like them.
lee

Yes, they'll show more peeling with age. But still, trees being living
things no two will be precisely alike, and the environment in which they're
growing can make a very significant difference. Btw, the picture is heavily
croped but from what I can see of how it's stabilized that tape is already
digging into the bark, and that light bamboo is doing nothing by way of
support but burying itself into the birch. I would redo the supporting
structure, make it so it gives the tree freedom to sway without chafing or
digging in... the more a young tree moves the stronger it's root system will
develop... there is no need for that support after the first year. I wish I
could see a more distant view so I could see how the tree is in the ground
and the lay of the land so I could tell if it's planted correctly, that
support system gives me concern that there are other issues.