Hi All,

In my little organic garden, I have three cherry tomato plants:
a sun gold, a sweet 100, and a black. I have one Cherokee
Purple tomato plant.

The sun gold and sweet 100 I have been getting about five tomatoes
a week.

I have only got one from the black (although I now have
about 10 green one).

The Cherokee Purple has only given me flowers. They turn
black on fall off.

This past two weeks, nothing has ripened.

Daytime temperatures are about 90F; night time about 52F.

Oh, and the plants themselves are growing very nicely. They
range from about 4 to 5 feet tall. They are fertilized only with
organic compost:
http://www.fullcirclecompost.com/SoilEssenceEliteN.php

What am I doing wrong? (I have to keep things organic.)

Many thanks,
-T

Todd said:

In my little organic garden, I have three cherry tomato plants:
a sun gold, a sweet 100, and a black. I have one Cherokee
Purple tomato plant.

The sun gold and sweet 100 I have been getting about five
tomatoes a week.

I have only got one from the black (although I now have
about 10 green one).

The Cherokee Purple has only given me flowers. They turn
black on fall off.

This past two weeks, nothing has ripened.

Daytime temperatures are about 90F; night time about 52F.

Oh, and the plants themselves are growing very nicely. They
range from about 4 to 5 feet tall. They are fertilized only with
organic compost:
http://www.fullcirclecompost.com/SoilEssenceEliteN.php

Way too much nitrogen for tomatos. You would be better off using
a fertilizer formulated for tomatoes, such as Espoma's Tomato-tone.

Best would be to have your soil tested and find out what your limiting
nutrient(s) might be.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."

email valid but not regularly monitored

In article
,
Pat Kiewicz wrote:

Todd said:

In my little organic garden, I have three cherry tomato plants:
a sun gold, a sweet 100, and a black. I have one Cherokee
Purple tomato plant.

The sun gold and sweet 100 I have been getting about five
tomatoes a week.

I have only got one from the black (although I now have
about 10 green one).

The Cherokee Purple has only given me flowers. They turn
black on fall off.

This past two weeks, nothing has ripened.

Daytime temperatures are about 90F; night time about 52F.

Oh, and the plants themselves are growing very nicely. They
range from about 4 to 5 feet tall. They are fertilized only with
organic compost:
http://www.fullcirclecompost.com/SoilEssenceEliteN.php

Way too much nitrogen for tomatos. You would be better off using
a fertilizer formulated for tomatoes, such as Espoma's Tomato-tone.

Best would be to have your soil tested and find out what your limiting
nutrient(s) might be.

I didn't see any NPK numbers. I wouldn't think that most compost would
have that much nitrogen in it, unless it was composted manure.

As you rightly observed, plentiful nitrogen, and enough water would be
sufficient to slow ripening, and encourage growth as Todd reported.
I'd think something like N-Lite fertilizer would be better at this stag
of the plans development.
Minimum Guaranteed Analysis:
Total Nitrogen (N)............................................... .... 2%
Available Phosphate (P 2 O 5 )................................. 5%
Soluble Potash (K 2 O) ............................................. 6%

As opposed to Espoma Tomato-tone 3-4-6.

I'd like to see more phosphorus in the fertilizer. Maybe try "bloom
fertilizer" (6-30-30), and cut the amount applied in half.

I was going to recommend bone meal,
(As a fertilizer, the N-P-K ratio of bone meal is generally 4-12-0,
though some steamed bone meals have N-P-Ks of 1-13-0. Bone meal is also
an excellent organic source of calcium.)

but then I ran across
???
http://www.smilinggardener.com/organ...ne-meal-for-pl
ants
Since the mid-1980s and especially the late-90s, there has been concern
as to whether using bone meal for plants might be harmful, as inhaling
bone meal dust can cause a form of Mad Cow Disease in humans. (!!!)


OMG
http://aces.nmsu.edu/ces/yard/1997/040797.html
There were apparently four deaths of gardeners in Great Britain
attributed to use of bone meal from cattle which may have had this
disease. It is believed that they inhaled bone meal dust as they were
applying bone meal to their garden. The first point made by the doctor
who wrote the article was that the rendering process which generates
bone meal used in Great Britain in the 1970's and 1980's was a part of
the problem. The process used in the United States is different and
appears to produce a safe bone meal. The second, and a very important
consideration, is that BSE has not been detected in cattle in the U.S.
The U.S. Department of Agriculture has an active program of testing for
BSE and veterinarians across the country are involved. Any cattle
suspected of exhibiting BSE symptoms are tested. None have been shown to
be infected in the U.S. No cattle or meat from British cattle have been
imported into the U.S. since 1989, so the chance of coming into contact
with contaminated bone meal is extremely remote. Nevertheless, if you
wish to be absolutely certain to avoid infection, you can wear a dust
mask when handling bone meal or you can switch to another source of
phosphorus in your garden.


OMG II
http://www.readinghospital.org/wtn/Page.asp?PageID=WTN001591
NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Three US scientists are concern about the
potential of people contracting Creutzfeldt Jakob disease -- the human
form of "mad cow disease" -- from eating farmed fish who are fed
byproducts rendered from cows.


Uh-huh
http://www.gardenguides.com/93873-organic-bone-meal-fertilizer.html
There has been speculation about whether inhaling bone meal dust could
cause bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), known commonly as Mad Cow
Disease. Numerous independent studies have shown that there is LITTLE
risk. As Lori Bushway of Cornell Cooperative Extension explains, bone
meal fertilizer sold in the U.S. SHOULD be free of the agent that causes
BSE because domestic manufacturers use a method in the rendering process
that destroys the BSE agent. In addition, bone meal can no longer be
imported from England, where BSE had infected cows. The U.S. Department
of Agriculture has an active program of testing for BSE. The likelihood
of being infected with BSE from using bone meal fertilizer is extremely
REMOTE.

I capitalized 3 of the words above.
This site should have been reassuring, but I still find it troubling.


CAUTION: Bone Meal

--
Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg
or
E Pluribus Unum
Green Party Nominee Jill Stein & Running Mate, Cheri Honkala
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/7/13/green_party_nominee_jill_stein_running

Billy said:

I didn't see any NPK numbers. I wouldn't think that most compost would
have that much nitrogen in it, unless it was composted manure.

It was recommended for "lawns" and "house plants" and the name is
"Elite N+" -- fish meal and feather meal among the indgredients *in
addition* to compost. The implication is pretty strong.

I understand that organic fertilizers can provide more than simple N-P-K
but I do think that best practices would be to provide an analysis for them
and include in that analysis some of the major micronutrients as well. That
would be so much more useful than claiming special powers for the "subtle
energies" provided by "paramagnetic rock dust." And when you throw in
sentences like this:

"The more Calcium a plant absorbs, the greater its ability to attract nutrients
from the atmosphere, especially Nitrogen, Potassium, Magnesium, and
Carbon Dioxide."

....well, my inclination would be to back away slowly with my hand on my
wallet.

Note, I recommended best practice would be a soil test.

Some soils have a good bank of P already. Sometimes K or one of the
major micronutrients is in short supply.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."

email valid but not regularly monitored

In article
,
Pat Kiewicz wrote:

Billy said:

I didn't see any NPK numbers. I wouldn't think that most compost would
have that much nitrogen in it, unless it was composted manure.

It was recommended for "lawns" and "house plants" and the name is
"Elite N+" -- fish meal and feather meal among the indgredients *in
addition* to compost. The implication is pretty strong.

I understand that organic fertilizers can provide more than simple N-P-K
but I do think that best practices would be to provide an analysis for them
and include in that analysis some of the major micronutrients as well. That
would be so much more useful than claiming special powers for the "subtle
energies" provided by "paramagnetic rock dust." And when you throw in
sentences like this:

"The more Calcium a plant absorbs, the greater its ability to attract
nutrients
from the atmosphere, especially Nitrogen, Potassium, Magnesium, and
Carbon Dioxide."

...well, my inclination would be to back away slowly with my hand on my
wallet.

Note, I recommended best practice would be a soil test.

Some soils have a good bank of P already. Sometimes K or one of the
major micronutrients is in short supply.

Pat, it's hard to tell, if you're being grumpy, or what. The post that
you refer to went like this:
------------



Pat Kiewicz wrote:

Todd said:

In my little organic garden, I have three cherry tomato plants:
a sun gold, a sweet 100, and a black. I have one Cherokee
Purple tomato plant.

The sun gold and sweet 100 I have been getting about five
tomatoes a week.

I have only got one from the black (although I now have
about 10 green one).

The Cherokee Purple has only given me flowers. They turn
black on fall off.

This past two weeks, nothing has ripened.

Daytime temperatures are about 90F; night time about 52F.

Oh, and the plants themselves are growing very nicely. They
range from about 4 to 5 feet tall. They are fertilized only with
organic compost:
http://www.fullcirclecompost.com/SoilEssenceEliteN.php

Way too much nitrogen for tomatos. You would be better off using
a fertilizer formulated for tomatoes, such as Espoma's Tomato-tone.

Best would be to have your soil tested and find out what your limiting
nutrient(s) might be.

I didn't see any NPK numbers. I wouldn't think that most compost would
have that much nitrogen in it, unless it was composted manure.

As you rightly observed, plentiful nitrogen, and enough water would be
sufficient to slow ripening, and encourage growth as Todd reported.
I'd think something like N-Lite fertilizer would be better at this stag
of the plans development.
Minimum Guaranteed Analysis:
Total Nitrogen (N)............................................... .... 2%
Available Phosphate (P 2 O 5 )................................. 5%
Soluble Potash (K 2 O) ............................................. 6%

As opposed to Espoma Tomato-tone 3-4-6.

I'd like to see more phosphorus in the fertilizer. Maybe try "bloom
fertilizer" (6-30-30), and cut the amount applied in half.
---------

Then I went off on a tangent about the possibility of bone meal being
able to cause Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease.

That said, your first response to Todd was to recommend a fertilizer
with a lower nitrogen content, and then you said it would be best to
have the soil analyzed. I agree fully, that it would be best to have the
soil analyzed, but I am aware also that many of us don't. I don't even
know if Todd had his soil analyzed, but he was fertilizing it. You
seemed to think that "SoilEssenceEliteN" had too much nitrogen in it (I
never found an NPK for it), so I recommended "something" like N-Lite
fertilizer (2-5-6), or a flower bloom (6-30-30) fertilizer, with it's
lower nitrogen, and higher phosphorus might work better.

Where you got
"claiming special powers for the "subtle
energies" provided by "paramagnetic rock dust." And when you throw in
sentences like this:

"The more Calcium a plant absorbs, the greater its ability to attract
nutrients
from the atmosphere, especially Nitrogen, Potassium, Magnesium, and
Carbon Dioxide."
is a mystery to me. Some may say that, but not I, and it's not in my
post, so I hope you're not attributing such "hocus pocus" superstitions
to me.

In the mean time, Todds tomatoes seem to exhibit signs of too much
nitrogen, and watering (not setting flowers, and fruit not ripening).
Having his soil analyzed is, of course, a good idea. A person can't have
too much information, when making a decision.

I hope you agree, that we agree.

Good luck with your swooping.

--
Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg
or
E Pluribus Unum
Green Party Nominee Jill Stein & Running Mate, Cheri Honkala
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/7/13/green_party_nominee_jill_stein_running

Tomato flowers fall off prematurely when there is a sudden change in the weather because it is too cool, or too hot, or the soil is too dry. Improve the growing conditions and mulch to keep the soil moisture. Use bloom enhancer product it helps blossoms set fruit in spite of poor weather conditions and produces larger tomatoes.

Billy said:

Pat Kiewicz wrote:

That said, your first response to Todd was to recommend a fertilizer
with a lower nitrogen content, and then you said it would be best to
have the soil analyzed. I agree fully, that it would be best to have the
soil analyzed, but I am aware also that many of us don't. I don't even
know if Todd had his soil analyzed, but he was fertilizing it. You
seemed to think that "SoilEssenceEliteN" had too much nitrogen in it (I
never found an NPK for it), so I recommended "something" like N-Lite
fertilizer (2-5-6), or a flower bloom (6-30-30) fertilizer, with it's
lower nitrogen, and higher phosphorus might work better.

I read the description and ingredient list for the fertilizer he
http://www.fullcirclecompost.com/SoilEssenceEliteN.php

And even though they did *not* list the NPK (which I hope you consider
a Very Bad Practice, even for "organic" manufacturers) the ingredient
list (which include fish and feather meal -- oh, and "inorganic nitrogen"),
the usages mentioned (lawns, houseplants) and the name (Elite N+) pretty
much imply it can be relied on as a nitrogen source and when you add in
the OP's results with tomatoes, a reasonable assumption that would it test
out high in N.

Where you got

claiming special powers for the "subtle
energies" provided by "paramagnetic rock dust." And when you throw in
sentences like this:

"The more Calcium a plant absorbs, the greater its ability to attract
nutrients from the atmosphere, especially Nitrogen, Potassium,
Magnesium, and Carbon Dioxide."

is a mystery to me. Some may say that, but not I, and it's not in my
post, so I hope you're not attributing such "hocus pocus" superstitions
to me.

I was quoting from the Soil Essence Elite N+ (tm) boilerplate. Check
out the website. Check out the "benefits" tab. WTF? You want to promote
organic gardening to sensible people, give them usable information and
can the excursions into magic pixie dust territory.

For one thing, it leads to people growing big, fat happy tomato plants with
no fruit.

(Yeah, yeah, I'm a bit cranky. Have a toothache, my dentist saw no cause on
my x-ray, have to go to a specialist today.)


In the mean time, Todds tomatoes seem to exhibit signs of too much
nitrogen, and watering (not setting flowers, and fruit not ripening).
Having his soil analyzed is, of course, a good idea. A person can't have
too much information, when making a decision.

Oh, you can too have too much information: Information Overload and
Analysis Paralysis.

Also, classic BS technique: dump mounds of information to obscure rather
than reveal.

But for gardening, a good soil test (including micronutrients) is step one.
(Too bad that the Extension Service in so many states has suffered from
severe budget cuts.)

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."

email valid but not regularly monitored

On 08/28/2012 01:52 AM, allen73 wrote:
'Todd[_2_ Wrote:
;967397']
-T

Tomato flowers fall off prematurely when there is a sudden change in the
weather because it is too cool, or too hot, or the soil is too dry.
Improve the growing conditions and mulch to keep the soil moisture. Use
*'bloom enhancer' (http://tinyurl.com/944j2u5)* product it helps
blossoms set fruit in spite of poor weather conditions and produces
larger tomatoes.

Hi Allen,

Uh oh. I may have been under watering. I water them about once
every three days to the tune of about two gallons. (All four plants are
in the same pot.) I just gave them a great soaking (about 10
gallons).

And, we have had some hot days (90's) and cold nights (40's).

Thank you for the help!

-T