In article ,
songbird wrote:

Higgs Boson wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
SteveB wrote:

I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We

get our ag water for $100 a year.


!!!! What are you complaining about ???!! Count your blessing! I pay
nearly that much per MONTH, including charge for sewers. (So Calif
coastal). Am considering giving up growing vegs; too damn expensive.

there is so much more to gardening in an arid
climate that can help keep water use down.

plant wind breaks to help reduce evaporative
losses.

use deep mulches.

amend sandy soils with clay and organic
materials to help keep the moisture in place
instead of running through.

catch any heavy rains that produce runoff
so that it can soak in (swales, diversions, rock
walls, erosion strips and gullies).

use drip irrigation.

plant hardy species (not miniaturized fruit
trees)

What's the knock on the hardiness of miniature fruit trees?

noted for being able to withstand the
climate, a few hours of dappled shade in the
midday can be important if the weather gets
really hot. fruit trees like dates and figs
are two i would plant in almost any dry climate
with enough sunshine and heat.

just a few things that come to mind...


songbird
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
....
plant hardy species (not miniaturized fruit
trees)

What's the knock on the hardiness of miniature fruit trees?

every book on fruit trees i've read recently
has noted that dwarfed fruit trees are not
that hardy when it comes to the root stock
because it is the roots which limit the size
of the tree. so the root system will not be
that hardy as compared to what a natural tree
might accomplish.


noted for being able to withstand the
climate, a few hours of dappled shade in the
midday can be important if the weather gets
really hot. fruit trees like dates and figs
are two i would plant in almost any dry climate
with enough sunshine and heat.

just a few things that come to mind...

and my reply was aimed more at Higgs in southern
CA, and not SteveB in Idaho (who has a much harder
winter climate) ( figs and dates).


songbird

On Friday, November 29, 2013 3:26:41 PM UTC-8, songbird wrote:
Billy wrote:

songbird wrote:

...

plant hardy species (not miniaturized fruit

trees)



What's the knock on the hardiness of miniature fruit trees?



every book on fruit trees i've read recently

has noted that dwarfed fruit trees are not

that hardy when it comes to the root stock

because it is the roots which limit the size

of the tree. so the root system will not be

that hardy as compared to what a natural tree

might accomplish.





noted for being able to withstand the

climate, a few hours of dappled shade in the

midday can be important if the weather gets

really hot. fruit trees like dates and figs

are two i would plant in almost any dry climate

with enough sunshine and heat.



just a few things that come to mind...



and my reply was aimed more at Higgs in southern

CA, and not SteveB in Idaho (who has a much harder

winter climate) ( figs and dates).


Bingo! They seemed to have managed pretty well in the ancient Middle East to grow figs, which feature prominently in the Hebrew Bible. Or am I confused and thinking of Eden, watered by its two rivers?

HB

songbird

In article ,
songbird wrote:

Billy wrote:
songbird wrote:
...
plant hardy species (not miniaturized fruit
trees)

What's the knock on the hardiness of miniature fruit trees?

every book on fruit trees i've read recently
has noted that dwarfed fruit trees are not
that hardy when it comes to the root stock
because it is the roots which limit the size
of the tree. so the root system will not be
that hardy as compared to what a natural tree
might accomplish.

Agreed, it won't go as deep.

My thought about dappled shade during mid-day was to use an espalier of
a miniature fruit tree(s), and then plant close to it. This would assure
mid-day shade from a desert sun for veggies, and water for the fruit
trees.



noted for being able to withstand the
climate, a few hours of dappled shade in the
midday can be important if the weather gets
really hot. fruit trees like dates and figs
are two i would plant in almost any dry climate
with enough sunshine and heat.

just a few things that come to mind...

and my reply was aimed more at Higgs in southern
CA, and not SteveB in Idaho (who has a much harder
winter climate) ( figs and dates).


songbird
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg

In article ,
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

SteveB wrote:
I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We
get our ag water for $100 a year. I have a sprinkler system, but the
garden is off one station, the rest go to trees and the yard. I
can't really program a lot of separate times on these timers, so I
think that my garden perhaps gets watered more than it should.

I am not a morning person. Nor am I heat tolerant. So, sometimes my
garden gets neglected. I know that a big key of gardening is frequent
checking to catch things before they get bad.

What are some insights into basic watering? Spray, or ditch? Top
water? Water just those that need it with a hose? Let it get dry
between watering? What is the trick?

Steve sw utah, 5a zone

In general there is no best way. You need to adapt to your limits and
objectives. If your water is expensive or very limited or you just want to
conserve it use drip irrigation. Flood and spray irrigation both lose much
water to evaporation and to flowing places that don't need it. But
installing a dripper system takes time and money. I would think that in
sandy soil flood irrigation would be woefully inefficient under any
circumstances. Using a hose is quite efficient but very time consuming. It
depends on the area to be watered, 100sq metres (1000sq ft) would be fine, 1
hectare (2 1/2 acres) and you would be there in the heat all day.

I suggest putting effort into both improving the water holding capacity of
the soil and heavy mulch would both be important as these will save water
overall and the number of times you have to water.

Also grouping your plants according to water need is important, this will
allow you to set a schedule of watering that suits the group and not over or
under watering a mixed bag.

Also schedule fewer deeper waterings rather than many shallow ones, this
will encourage the plants to develop deeper root systems which will support
them in dry conditions better.

If you cannot water in the morning then water in the late afternoon or even
at night, watering in hot dry conditions in the heat of the day will lose
much to evaporation. Fungus is not likely to be a problem with night
watering and drippers don't wet the folliage anyway like overhead watering.

D

It's all good, but with water shortages either present or expected, I'd
start prepping for a drip system, and use at least 2" - 3" (50mm - 75mm)
of mulch. A few trees wouldn't hurt either.
--
Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg