I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We get
our ag water for $100 a year. I have a sprinkler system, but the garden
is off one station, the rest go to trees and the yard. I can't really
program a lot of separate times on these timers, so I think that my
garden perhaps gets watered more than it should.

I am not a morning person. Nor am I heat tolerant. So, sometimes my
garden gets neglected. I know that a big key of gardening is frequent
checking to catch things before they get bad.

What are some insights into basic watering? Spray, or ditch? Top
water? Water just those that need it with a hose? Let it get dry
between watering? What is the trick?

Steve sw utah, 5a zone

On 11/26/2013 1:58 PM, SteveB wrote:
I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We get
our ag water for $100 a year. I have a sprinkler system, but the garden
is off one station, the rest go to trees and the yard. I can't really
program a lot of separate times on these timers, so I think that my
garden perhaps gets watered more than it should.

I am not a morning person. Nor am I heat tolerant. So, sometimes my
garden gets neglected. I know that a big key of gardening is frequent
checking to catch things before they get bad.

What are some insights into basic watering? Spray, or ditch? Top
water? Water just those that need it with a hose? Let it get dry
between watering? What is the trick?

Steve sw utah, 5a zone


If your climate is somewhat arid, see my "Gardening During a Drought" at
http://www.rossde.com/garden/drought.html. Where I live, it's almost
permanent drought.

If you are serius about gardening in the U.S. in or west of the Rocky
Mountains, invest in a copy of Sunset's "Western Garden Book". Unlike
the US Department of Agriculture, which only considers winter low
temperatures, Sunset's climate zones take into account summer high
temperatures, persistent cloud cover, prevailing winds, humidity,
lengths of growing seasons, and other factors. For south-western Utah,
Sunset indicates three different climate zones, with a significant
difference between Cedar City and St. George.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

SteveB wrote:
I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We
get our ag water for $100 a year. I have a sprinkler system, but the
garden is off one station, the rest go to trees and the yard. I
can't really program a lot of separate times on these timers, so I
think that my garden perhaps gets watered more than it should.

I am not a morning person. Nor am I heat tolerant. So, sometimes my
garden gets neglected. I know that a big key of gardening is frequent
checking to catch things before they get bad.

What are some insights into basic watering? Spray, or ditch? Top
water? Water just those that need it with a hose? Let it get dry
between watering? What is the trick?

Steve sw utah, 5a zone

In general there is no best way. You need to adapt to your limits and
objectives. If your water is expensive or very limited or you just want to
conserve it use drip irrigation. Flood and spray irrigation both lose much
water to evaporation and to flowing places that don't need it. But
installing a dripper system takes time and money. I would think that in
sandy soil flood irrigation would be woefully inefficient under any
circumstances. Using a hose is quite efficient but very time consuming. It
depends on the area to be watered, 100sq metres (1000sq ft) would be fine, 1
hectare (2 1/2 acres) and you would be there in the heat all day.

I suggest putting effort into both improving the water holding capacity of
the soil and heavy mulch would both be important as these will save water
overall and the number of times you have to water.

Also grouping your plants according to water need is important, this will
allow you to set a schedule of watering that suits the group and not over or
under watering a mixed bag.

Also schedule fewer deeper waterings rather than many shallow ones, this
will encourage the plants to develop deeper root systems which will support
them in dry conditions better.

If you cannot water in the morning then water in the late afternoon or even
at night, watering in hot dry conditions in the heat of the day will lose
much to evaporation. Fungus is not likely to be a problem with night
watering and drippers don't wet the folliage anyway like overhead watering.

D

On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:49:01 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott wrote:
SteveB wrote:

I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We

get our ag water for $100 a year.


!!!! What are you complaining about ???!! Count your blessing! I pay nearly that much per MONTH, including charge for sewers. (So Calif coastal). Am considering giving up growing vegs; too damn expensive.

HB

[...]

On 11/27/2013 2:00 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:49:01 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott wrote:
SteveB wrote:

I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We

get our ag water for $100 a year.


!!!! What are you complaining about ???!! Count your blessing! I pay nearly that much per MONTH, including charge for sewers. (So Calif coastal). Am considering giving up growing vegs; too damn expensive.

HB

[...]


I pay an average of $143.71 per MONTH for water. That is just slightly
less than the combined monthly average cost of gas, electricity, and
phone. The water is used by a household of only two people: my wife and
me. Our landscaped area plus the footprint of our house plus paved
areas total less than 0.2 acre (about 800 m2). No swimming pool or
fountains.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 11/26/2013 4:06 PM, David E. Ross wrote:


If you are serius about gardening in the U.S. in or west of the Rocky
Mountains, invest in a copy of Sunset's "Western Garden Book".

I have it around here somewhere.

For south-western Utah,
Sunset indicates three different climate zones, with a significant
difference between Cedar City and St. George.

Which is precisely where I live. At Star Nursery, they have signs on
the rows saying where the plants will grow, and CC is very different
than SG. Went to CC today, and it was 41, snow on the ground. Nearly
60 in SG.

Steve

On 11/27/2013 3:00 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:49:01 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott wrote:
SteveB wrote:

I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We

get our ag water for $100 a year.


!!!! What are you complaining about ???!! Count your blessing!

I pay nearly that much per MONTH, including charge for sewers. (So
Calif coastal).

Am considering giving up growing vegs; too damn expensive.

HB

I wasn't complaining. But then, I looked at my bill. The bandits upped
it to $32 a quarter! Can you believe it?

Steve

On 11/27/2013 3:40 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 11/27/2013 2:00 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:49:01 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott wrote:
SteveB wrote:

I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We

get our ag water for $100 a year.


!!!! What are you complaining about ???!! Count your blessing! I pay nearly that much per MONTH, including charge for sewers. (So Calif coastal). Am considering giving up growing vegs; too damn expensive.

HB

[...]


I pay an average of $143.71 per MONTH for water. That is just slightly
less than the combined monthly average cost of gas, electricity, and
phone. The water is used by a household of only two people: my wife and
me. Our landscaped area plus the footprint of our house plus paved
areas total less than 0.2 acre (about 800 m2). No swimming pool or
fountains.


Oh! My water bill does NOT include sewage fees. Sewage is added as a
service charge to my property tax bill: $501.60 per year. As a service
charge, this is unrelated to the assessed value; every single-family
house pays the same. This arrangement is because the water service
covers only a small part of the sanitation district; the rest of the
district receives water from other agencies unrelated to sewage.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

Higgs Boson wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
SteveB wrote:

I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We

get our ag water for $100 a year.


!!!! What are you complaining about ???!! Count your blessing! I pay nearly that much per MONTH, including charge for sewers. (So Calif coastal). Am considering giving up growing vegs; too damn expensive.

there is so much more to gardening in an arid
climate that can help keep water use down.

plant wind breaks to help reduce evaporative
losses.

use deep mulches.

amend sandy soils with clay and organic
materials to help keep the moisture in place
instead of running through.

catch any heavy rains that produce runoff
so that it can soak in (swales, diversions, rock
walls, erosion strips and gullies).

use drip irrigation.

plant hardy species (not miniaturized fruit
trees) noted for being able to withstand the
climate, a few hours of dappled shade in the
midday can be important if the weather gets
really hot. fruit trees like dates and figs
are two i would plant in almost any dry climate
with enough sunshine and heat.

just a few things that come to mind...


songbird

Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:49:01 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott
wrote:
SteveB wrote:

I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We

get our ag water for $100 a year.


!!!! What are you complaining about ???!! Count your blessing! I
pay nearly that much per MONTH, including charge for sewers. (So
Calif coastal). Am considering giving up growing vegs; too damn
expensive.

HB

[...]

Water for agriculture is not the same as domestic water, they are not
comparable at all. In my case I pay a couple of hundred dollars a year for
up to 26 megalitres (about 7 million gallons US). However I have to pump it
out of the river and reticulate it which isn't cheap. This water is not
filtered or treated in any way, unlike tap water if the river stops running
there is nobody to complain to and it has nothing to do with sewers or other
services.

D

On 11/27/2013 10:09 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:49:01 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott
wrote:
SteveB wrote:

I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We

get our ag water for $100 a year.


!!!! What are you complaining about ???!! Count your blessing! I
pay nearly that much per MONTH, including charge for sewers. (So
Calif coastal). Am considering giving up growing vegs; too damn
expensive.

HB

[...]

Water for agriculture is not the same as domestic water, they are not
comparable at all. In my case I pay a couple of hundred dollars a year for
up to 26 megalitres (about 7 million gallons US). However I have to pump it
out of the river and reticulate it which isn't cheap. This water is not
filtered or treated in any way, unlike tap water if the river stops running
there is nobody to complain to and it has nothing to do with sewers or other
services.

D


In the southern half of California, the only differences between
agricultural water and domestic water a

* Agricultural water is not filtered; domestic water is.

* Agricultural water is not disinfected; domestic water is.

* Theoretically, agricultural water can be cut off in a drought, which
is a significant justification for a lower cost than non-interruptable
domestic water. Practically, agricultural water has never been cut off,
even during the worst droughts.

The significant similarity between agricultural water and domestic water
in southern Calfironia is that they both come out of the same aqueducts,
fed from the same reservoirs, supplied from the same snow-melt.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 11:27:06 PM UTC-8, David E. Ross wrote:
On 11/27/2013 10:09 PM, David Hare-Scott wrote:

Higgs Boson wrote:

On Tuesday, November 26, 2013 3:49:01 PM UTC-8, David Hare-Scott

wrote:

SteveB wrote:



I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We



get our ag water for $100 a year.





!!!! What are you complaining about ???!! Count your blessing! I

pay nearly that much per MONTH, including charge for sewers. (So

Calif coastal). Am considering giving up growing vegs; too damn

expensive.



HB



[...]



Water for agriculture is not the same as domestic water, they are not

comparable at all. In my case I pay a couple of hundred dollars a year for

up to 26 megalitres (about 7 million gallons US). However I have to pump it

out of the river and reticulate it which isn't cheap. This water is not

filtered or treated in any way, unlike tap water if the river stops running

there is nobody to complain to and it has nothing to do with sewers or other

services.



D





In the southern half of California, the only differences between

agricultural water and domestic water a



* Agricultural water is not filtered; domestic water is.



* Agricultural water is not disinfected; domestic water is.



* Theoretically, agricultural water can be cut off in a drought, which

is a significant justification for a lower cost than non-interruptable

domestic water. Practically, agricultural water has never been cut off,

even during the worst droughts.



The significant similarity between agricultural water and domestic water

in southern Calfironia is that they both come out of the same aqueducts,

fed from the same reservoirs, supplied from the same snow-melt.

Whatthehell! My water co in SM never told me bupkis about "agricultural water"! Does that mean I have to be a farmer to benefit?


HB

On Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:49:20 PM UTC-8, songbird wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote:

David Hare-Scott wrote:

SteveB wrote:



I live in a basically high desert community of 3500' elevation. We



get our ag water for $100 a year.





!!!! What are you complaining about ???!! Count your blessing! I pay nearly that much per MONTH, including charge for sewers. (So Calif coastal). Am considering giving up growing vegs; too damn expensive.



there is so much more to gardening in an arid

climate that can help keep water use down.



plant wind breaks to help reduce evaporative

losses.



use deep mulches.



amend sandy soils with clay and organic

materials to help keep the moisture in place

instead of running through.



catch any heavy rains that produce runoff

so that it can soak in (swales, diversions, rock

walls, erosion strips and gullies).



use drip irrigation.



plant hardy species (not miniaturized fruit

trees) noted for being able to withstand the

climate, a few hours of dappled shade in the

midday can be important if the weather gets

really hot. fruit trees like dates and figs

are two i would plant in almost any dry climate

with enough sunshine and heat.



just a few things that come to mind...


songbird

Rain? RAIN? Did I hear you mention RAIN?! Whazzat?

HB

songbird wrote:

fruit trees like dates and figs
are two i would plant in almost any dry climate
with enough sunshine and heat.

Figs need a gooly quantity of water and don't do well in cold climes,
certainly not the higher elevations in Utah.
http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgi.../hgic1353.html
Dates require their feet flooded.
http://www.dateland.com/Tutorial.html

"Brooklyn1" wrote in message
...
songbird wrote:

fruit trees like dates and figs
are two i would plant in almost any dry climate
with enough sunshine and heat.

Figs need a gooly quantity of water and don't do well in cold climes,

Figs can grow and produce a good crop of figs without much water and where
the winter temperatures drop to -9C.