On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 09:30:49 -0700, Tom J
wrote:

communality


damn speil chicker!

"paghat" wrote in message

Would YOU have guessed a regular old Marin County HOA would expend months
of volunteer energy & easily get 600 signatures practically overnight in
their desire to stop Orthodox Jews from living just outside the boundaries
of their HOA -- as their first excuse for their behavior, a fear that
Orthodox Jews will be racing their cars through the neighborhoods on
Saturday while children play!

That is truly bizarre!


But when these enclaves define themselves as Christian and/or advertise
how many churches their community has (INVARIABLY leaving off the lists
the only synogogue & the only Buddhist temple), the message is pretty
damned clear without them having to be more explicit.

Whenever I see anything defining themselves as "Christian", I'm afraid my
prejudices come to the fore. I have an extremely gut-negative response! My
experiences with people who make a big deal about being Christian is that
they are anything *but. Yuck.

If you think these same people LIKE Jews, you've clearly made it
easy for them to not notice you are one, in the same way faggots & dykes
learn to keep heads down.

We've always had a mezuzah on our door wherever we've lived. Not terribly
noticable I suppose and most people, if they did notice it, wouldn't have
any idea what it meant anyway. Where we lived with the HOA also had a
synagogue, so, obviously not the typical (if you are right about most of the
rest of the country) HOA community. My husband, though, is *stereoypically
Jewish looking. Dark, bearded, large aquiline nose, etc. I've run into the
occassional redneck out here who has (without knowing I was Jewish) made
disparaging comments about Jews, but, overall, this area (with the highest
education level in the country and in the top ten for household income) is
quite enlightened and diverse. I suppose I do take it for granted at this
point and would have a hard time living anywhere else.

Which is not to say you might be wonderfully
lucky to live in a genuinely liberal area, & no reason to look TOO hard
for another underlying reality.

Yup.

OK Ann, but living in a communality with hundreds of HOA's I see
none of the rantings validated.
I can't see what's NOT there.

I'm aware of over 200 HOA's in Clark County Nevada. I've worked in at
least 100 different HOA's in my days as a landscaper. Most use
management companies to run their day to day operations. There are at
least 10 Synagogues as well as 4 Mosques around the Valley. I've lived
in 3 HOA's with Gay, Hindu, Hebrew, Buddhist, Christian, Black, Brown,
White, Red and Yellow neighbors. The world still suffers from the
horrible abuses of racism.....but not in my front yard. I work for a
company that celebrates diversity and encourages diversity.

half empty half full, either way ther's a long way to go, I just don't
see the world as evil as you.

"Tom J" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 11:09:43 -0400, Ann wrote:

Tom J expounded:


This entire thread remains clueless except for some insight by Vox....

Sorry, but I find Vox to be as rabid as Paghat on this one.


OK Ann, but living in a communality with hundreds of HOA's I see
none of the rantings validated.

I agree. I don't see anything rabid in my arguments. If there is some flaw
of logic, then address it. To call someone "rabid" because you don't like
their viewpoint is simply an ad hominem attack. Out of the 150 homes in my
subdivision, only about two or three have any serious, ongoing violations.
They are the same two or three people who continue to ignore the contract
that they signed at closing. No one comes to meetings. That indicates to
me that people aren't upset about the situation. I don't hear any neighbors
ranting about the rules.

My position on the subject is simple. HOA rules are on file in your county
courthouse. You should ask to see a copy before you sign the planned unit
development rider at closing. You should talk to the people in the
neighboring houses to see what they think about the level of enforcement.
You might want to call the management company or board president. If you
sign the agreement the you should expect to live by the agreement. In
exchange for the restrictions, you have an assurance that your neighborhood
will remain as good (or bad) as it was when you moved in. You will
probably have the use of some common areas including a pool, tennis courts,
playground, and/or clubhouse. Don't expect the basic covenants and
restrictions to be changed or abolished. You can participate in the actions
of the board and change things like the architectural rules that are at the
discretion of the board. HOA are bound by Federal, state, and local civil
rights laws. HOAs generally don't get involved with the sale of your home
except to specify the type of "for sale" sign that you place in your yard.

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , Tom J
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 11:09:43 -0400, Ann wrote:

Tom J expounded:


This entire thread remains clueless except for some insight by Vox....

Sorry, but I find Vox to be as rabid as Paghat on this one.


OK Ann, but living in a communality with hundreds of HOA's I see
none of the rantings validated.

Some people don't HAVE to care, so never even bother to look. You don't
see what you couldn't care less about.

Tell me what single community has HUNDREDS of HOAs while you're at it. By
HUNDREDS you mean 200 HOAs right in your neighborhood? Three or four
hundred? Six hundred? Should be easy for you to name 10% of them then, or
grab your Yellow Pages & list the ones that start with "S" -- that should
be a good 20 out of 200 right there.

Someone mentioned that they lived in an area called Montgomery Village that
had a lot of HOAs. If you go to the Montgomery County HOA page you will see
a list of over 800 HOA listed.
http://www.communitiesonline.org/sta...ontgomery/hoa/

"Vox Humana" wrote in message

Someone mentioned that they lived in an area called Montgomery Village
that
had a lot of HOAs. If you go to the Montgomery County HOA page you will
see
a list of over 800 HOA listed.
http://www.communitiesonline.org/sta...ontgomery/hoa/

Those are HOAs for the entire *county of Montgomery. It's in Maryland and
is a suburb of DC.

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 05:26:57 -0700, Tom J wrote:

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 05:30:48 -0400, Ann wrote:

Now you've taken this a bit over the top.


NOW?!!

This entire thread remains clueless except for some insight by Vox....

Paggers is clueless and ranting IMO.

Pepsi through the nose. Thanks! BTW, on my second batch of tea. I'm
impressed.

But your "right" or "option" to join a HOA where the percentage of
minorities drops dramatically (to as low as zero percent ) doesn't look so
nifty, not if the day before you went house-hunting you naively believed
that discriminatory housing policies was illegal in all cases, only to
discover a half-dozen of the surrunding neighborhoods "coincidentally"
only sell to whites & a huge percentage of houses on the market aren't for
you -- & turns out there's very little you can do about it even if you
were brave enough to force the issue & forge a path amidst all those
honkies.


The other thing to thing about is this: would you want to live in a
place where you knoew everyone around didn't want you there, and was
watching your every move? Not to mention you were accused (in the
courts of public opinion) everything something was missing from
someone's house?

I am whilte, and while I have nothing against any other races, I don't
htink I would be comforatable moving in to an all-hispanic, or
al-black area. I wouldn't fit. everyone would alway look at, and
treat me like an outsider. I have seen the same thing here in the
town I live in. there are about 1000 people. all bt about 10 of them
are white.. anytime something is stolen, of missing, or broken, it's
always "those damn ni$$ers" that did it.... Mean while they keep to
themselves,

you may win in the courts, but whould it be worth it??




email: daveallyn at bwsys dot net
please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!

For some inexplicable reasons, "Vox Humana"
wrote:

: HOA rules are on file in your county
:courthouse. You should ask to see a copy before you sign the planned unit
:development rider at closing.

I've lived in three communities with HOAs. For each
transaction, the HOA and/or the sellar had to give us a copy of the
association's rules so we had time to read through them before the
closing.



--
Wendy Chatley Green

On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:29:59 -0400, "Julia Green"
wrote:

Those are HOAs for the entire *county of Montgomery.


How does that not legitimize the contention that there are hundreds in
a local?

"paghat" wrote:

Thing is, there's ALWAYS something to report, if you have some "I'm the
cops" style loony neighbor with a bug up their butt looking hard enough.

Ya know...you've got a great web page, and some lovely gardens. But you
really need to take up yoga or something - you're too tense and your...oh
hell...your diatribes sound a bit angrier than perhaps you ought to be.

I find HOAs and overly restrictive covenants to be odious. Not because
they're racist in nature - most aren't, at least in the part of the world I
live in. Most in my part of the world are aimed at not having people park
their RVs in the driveway for a long time, or leaving their garage doors
open, shit like that. What you can plant, where and how. Small-town,
busybody, let's-pretend-we're-Ozzie-and-Harriet crap. That's what bugs me
about 'em - in their worst form, they encourage people to be neighborhood
cops. Hell, they attract people who *like* to be like that. Real Frank
Burns types. Ugh.

However, people who buy homes in neighborhoods with HOAs or restrictive
covenants are made aware of these restrictions before they buy in. It's
understood that living in such neighborhoods means you'll comply with the
regulations, no matter how petty and stupid they may be. If you don't, they
can take you to court. I don't agree with imposing the regs after the fact,
however. Bad ju-ju.

Now, I have no problem with minimal standards of maintenance, etc. You
know...cut the grass more than twice a summer, or at least plant something
that looks good at 12" tall, 'cause bluegrass ain't it. Don't leave your
bombed-out '72 Impala in the side yard. Try to maintain your house in a
basic state of repair - it doesn't have to be perfect, but, you know, take
care of it.

Hanging deer from a basketball pole in the driveway? That's rather out of
line. Yes, it's trashy. Do it in the back yard if you have to. Why? For
the same reasons I don't want my neighbors to shit on their front lawns -
it's disgusting.

If you wanna go out and shoot your own dinner, fine with me. Just don't
dress your kill in the driveway. I obviously don't know the specifics of
the incidents involved here, but the guy sounds like a bit of a prick. The
neighbors he has might not help the situation, but I think there's more than
enough stupidity to go around.

Bob

"paghat" wrote

Homeowners Association as I documented thoroughly have a racist origin.

So...all are tainted by the ugly actions of some? Is that really where
you're headed here? IIRC, Planned Parenthood was founded at least in part
on eugenicistic principles. Would you judge the current organization by
that?


Now there you go just with your head in a hole. Homeowner Associations are
semi-independently governed entities which, if they do not accept
government funding of the HUD sort, do not have to follow
antidiscrimination laws.

Um. Hm. Care to reveal your source on this one? My understanding of the
Fair Housing Act (enforced or not) is that it applies to nearly everyone,
including HOAs, condo nazi boards, and cooperative apartment boards.
Religious outfits can discriminate, but even tehy aren't allowed to
discriminate on the basis of race or ethnicity.

It would appear that your assertions are more correct WRT HOAs and suchlike
on the west coast and specifically California. But they don't apply
everywhere, perhaps not even most places.

I can't even freakin' believe I'm essentially defending something I hate,
but here I am.

Bob

"Wendy Chatley Green" wrote in message
...
For some inexplicable reasons, "Vox Humana"
wrote:

: HOA rules are on file in your county
:courthouse. You should ask to see a copy before you sign the planned
unit
:development rider at closing.

I've lived in three communities with HOAs. For each
transaction, the HOA and/or the sellar had to give us a copy of the
association's rules so we had time to read through them before the
closing.

That doesn't seem to be a equipment in Ohio. You do have to sign a Planned
Unit Development rider at closing. As with any legal document, you should
know what you are signing and ask questions. Giving the buyer the rules is
a good idea that could keep you out of hot water later should the buyer
claim that you failed to disclose that existence of a HOA.

We had a case in our development where a home buyer drove a commercial
truck. He asked the realtor if it was OK to park the truck in the driveway
because it wouldn't fit through the garage door opening. The realtor,
Coldwell Banker, assured him, in writing, that he could park the truck in
the driveway. Unfortunately not only was it against the covenants and
restrictions, but also against township zoning regulations. Coldwell Banker
had to get permission from the association to modify the garage door opening
to make it taller and then install a larger door after the homeowner
threatened litigation. Strangely, after all the fuss, the owner still
refused to park in the garage. Despite the fact that he knew that the
association had rules that were enforceable, he pushed the issue. The
association got a court order that prevented him from parking in the
driveway except for five hours a month to allow him to wash the truck. If
he violates the order, not only can he be fined by the association, but he
would violating a court order.

I believe Vox had said that there were hundreds in one *neighborhood.
That's an exaggeration.

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 7 Jun 2003 19:29:59 -0400, "Julia Green"
wrote:

Those are HOAs for the entire *county of Montgomery.


How does that not legitimize the contention that there are hundreds in
a local?

"Julia Green" wrote in message
...
I believe Vox had said that there were hundreds in one *neighborhood.
That's an exaggeration.

No. Technically, someone else said that there were hundreds in a community.
I pointed out that there were over 800 in Montgomery county. Maybe that
county is huge and 800 HOAs are so dispersed that they wouldn't be very
close to each other. I don't know. I doubt that there are 800 towns in my
county. I would suspect that the 800 associations are clustered and not
evenly dispersed. There are over 40 million people living in about 200,000
communities governed by HOAs. From that standpoint, Montgomery County, MD
would have a disproportionate number of these communities as compared with
the nation as a whole.