Hi,

I purchased a bag of Scott's lawn fertlizer (and weedkill) this
spring. Due to the heavy rains this season in Northern Virginia
combined with my laziness, I never got around to applying it. Is it
too late to use it now?

Scott's recommends a cycle approach where they want you to buy
different fertilizers for different seasons. Wondering if using the
"Spring" version now (early August) will adversely affect the lawn.

There's quite a bit of weed growth and the wife keeps blaming it on my
not applying fertilizer.

Thanks

The combined products are generally bad idea. You end up putting one or
the other one at the wrong time.

If your weather is not (and is not going to be) too hot and dry, then
you should be fine using the product now. If you use now remember that it
is going to cause the grass to start growing faster then normal and if it
dries out or gets too hot it will be bad for the grass. Fertilizing is
usually best in the early to mid spring and mid to late fall. More nitrogen
in the spring less in the fall. Weed killer is a little late, but it should
not be too bad right now and should knock down some of the weeds.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"Sunday4" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

I purchased a bag of Scott's lawn fertlizer (and weedkill) this
spring. Due to the heavy rains this season in Northern Virginia
combined with my laziness, I never got around to applying it. Is it
too late to use it now?

Scott's recommends a cycle approach where they want you to buy
different fertilizers for different seasons. Wondering if using the
"Spring" version now (early August) will adversely affect the lawn.

There's quite a bit of weed growth and the wife keeps blaming it on my
not applying fertilizer.

Thanks

Sunday4 wrote:
Hi,

I purchased a bag of Scott's lawn fertlizer (and weedkill) this
spring. Due to the heavy rains this season in Northern Virginia
combined with my laziness, I never got around to applying it. Is it
too late to use it now?

Scott's recommends a cycle approach where they want you to buy
different fertilizers for different seasons. Wondering if using the
"Spring" version now (early August) will adversely affect the lawn.

There's quite a bit of weed growth and the wife keeps blaming it on my
not applying fertilizer.


Scott's program is designed to sell fertilizer. It's not even close the
best thing for your lawn.

I'm assuming that what you bought is Weed 'n Feed. Do you really think
spreading poison all over your lawn is a good idea? This certainly isn't
a product you want to use if you have kids, pets, or anyone ever walks
on your lawn. Part of that poison is also going to wash into the storm
sewers, and that's certainly not good for the watershed. If everyone
used Weed 'n Feed, you'd probably have to start importing your drinking
water.

The herbicide in your Weed 'n Feed is not going to do anything good for
your lawn now. The fertilizer part of the mix will help both the grass
and the weeds grow.

A truly healthy lawn eventually chokes out most of the weeds. The few
weeds that exist in a healthy lawn are best dealt with by pulling them,
but in the alternative, if you just have to use chemicals, you would
treat each of the weeds rather than broadcast a herbicide all over the
place.

If you've been following the Scotts program, and you've been using Weed
'n Feed every year, your lawn may be the equivalent of a heroin junky.
Getting off the chemicals will not be an easy path to follow, but in the
long run you'll have a healthier lawn, and you'll spend far less money.
Your dealer, Scotts, will most certainly disagree with me, but you know
they're biased. I'm not trying to sell you anything. I have no vested
interest in whether or not you follow my suggestions as I'm 3000 miles
away, and I'm not in your watershed.

For practical purposes, the life-cycle of a lawn begins in fall. Get out
as many weeds as possible by then. If you have a lot of thatch built-up,
dethatch. After the summer heat has gone, and just prior to the start of
the fall rains, use a core aerator on your lawn. That's not tennis shoes
with spikes. It's a big, heavy machine that pulls out cores of sod/soil
down to about 4-6". Right after you're done it looks like your yard is
filled with dog turds. If your yard is in really bad shape, this would
be the time to top dress it with organic material. Some of it can work
it's way into the holes you've left.

After aerating, over-seed with an appropriate mix of grass seed. Don't
put all your eggs in one basket. Get a blend. Ask at the local garden
center, or check with your county extension office about what the best
mix is for sun, shade or part sun and shade for your area. Don't trust
that the blends you'll find in the national retailers are the right ones
for your area. Read the labels. They just might have the right blend at
a good price -- or maybe not.

At this time you want to fertilize with a "winterizer"-type fertilizer.
Scotts is fine. Relatively expensive, but fine. You want a low nitrogen
fertilizer at this time. Your goal is to build healthy roots, not
necessarily a lot of green on top. Don't let the leaves smother your
lawn. Don't mow it for a few weeks, and when you do mow it, leave the
clippings on the lawn, and leave it taller than a putting green.
(Putting green length is not a realistic goal for a residential lawn
unless you have time and money, or lots of groundskeepers and even more
money.)

If your lawn has been in really bad shape, mid-Spring it may be
beneficial to repeat the aeration, over-seeding, and fertilizing. This
time use a normal lawn fertilizer, not a Weed 'n Feed. If you have moss
problems, a fertilizer with iron will take care of that.

Now all next spring and summer, leave your clippings on the lawn.
Ideally mow when it's dry. Shoot for a little taller than the golf
course, and never mow more than 1/3 the height of what's there. If
you're leaving clumps of clippings, get your blade sharpened. If your
mower isn't a "mulching" mower, think about getting a replacement. And
try your best to avoid mowing when wet. But it'll still be better to mow
when wet than to let it grow so long that cutting 1/3 off won't be
enough. You can always break apart the clumps of grass if you have to.

When Mother Nature stops watering enough, your sprinkling should be
infrequent, but deep. Depending on the type of grass, you'll want to put
at least an inch, but maybe up to 1-3/4 inches a week in as few
applications as possible. Stop watering before you have run-off, but if
you can get the whole allotment in at once, that is the best. Shallow,
frequent watering encourages shallow roots, which results in dead grass,
and lots of weeds. (If you run a lawn service, try this on your
customers. They'll have to pay you even more to fix the problems, and
they'll never guess you caused them because frequent watering seems like
something that should work, doesn't it?)

Pull weeds before they flower. Get the roots if you can. If you have
some that are rooted so well that you can't get them up even with a
root-puller, then apply a little Round-up to the weed. Keep in mind that
it may kill some of the grass immediately around it, leaving you with a
spot that's ripe for new weeds.

Repeat this for two or three years. As the lawn gets healthier, you can
eliminate the spring aeration, over-seeding and fertilizing. A truly
healthy lawn appreciates some winterizer-type fertilizer and aeration in
the fall, and it wants, you to leave the clippings. It works best with
deep, infrequent summer watering, and will look especially lush when
left taller than many people think when they think of a lawn. In the
long run you'll save the money you spend on fertilizers, you'll use less
water, and you'll spend less time pulling weeds. And you'll have the
best lawn on the block to boot.

Just like kicking drugs, kicking the fertilizer company habit won't be
easy in the beginning, but it will pay off big in the end if you have
the willpower to stick to it.

Or you could just rip it all up, and lay new sod each spring.

Now I've gone way off the point of your original question: No. Don't use
the Weed 'n Feed on your lawn now. Don't use any fertilizer on your lawn
at this time of the year.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug:
Support me at: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/

I agree 100% I might add that after a few years of doing this, not
only is your lawn better looking, but it takes less time and money to keep
it that way.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"Warren" wrote in message
news:4BWXa.72800$Ho3.10499@sccrnsc03...
Sunday4 wrote:
Hi,

I purchased a bag of Scott's lawn fertlizer (and weedkill) this
spring. Due to the heavy rains this season in Northern Virginia
combined with my laziness, I never got around to applying it. Is it
too late to use it now?

Scott's recommends a cycle approach where they want you to buy
different fertilizers for different seasons. Wondering if using the
"Spring" version now (early August) will adversely affect the lawn.

There's quite a bit of weed growth and the wife keeps blaming it on my
not applying fertilizer.


Scott's program is designed to sell fertilizer. It's not even close the
best thing for your lawn.

I'm assuming that what you bought is Weed 'n Feed. Do you really think
spreading poison all over your lawn is a good idea? This certainly isn't
a product you want to use if you have kids, pets, or anyone ever walks
on your lawn. Part of that poison is also going to wash into the storm
sewers, and that's certainly not good for the watershed. If everyone
used Weed 'n Feed, you'd probably have to start importing your drinking
water.

The herbicide in your Weed 'n Feed is not going to do anything good for
your lawn now. The fertilizer part of the mix will help both the grass
and the weeds grow.

A truly healthy lawn eventually chokes out most of the weeds. The few
weeds that exist in a healthy lawn are best dealt with by pulling them,
but in the alternative, if you just have to use chemicals, you would
treat each of the weeds rather than broadcast a herbicide all over the
place.

If you've been following the Scotts program, and you've been using Weed
'n Feed every year, your lawn may be the equivalent of a heroin junky.
Getting off the chemicals will not be an easy path to follow, but in the
long run you'll have a healthier lawn, and you'll spend far less money.
Your dealer, Scotts, will most certainly disagree with me, but you know
they're biased. I'm not trying to sell you anything. I have no vested
interest in whether or not you follow my suggestions as I'm 3000 miles
away, and I'm not in your watershed.

For practical purposes, the life-cycle of a lawn begins in fall. Get out
as many weeds as possible by then. If you have a lot of thatch built-up,
dethatch. After the summer heat has gone, and just prior to the start of
the fall rains, use a core aerator on your lawn. That's not tennis shoes
with spikes. It's a big, heavy machine that pulls out cores of sod/soil
down to about 4-6". Right after you're done it looks like your yard is
filled with dog turds. If your yard is in really bad shape, this would
be the time to top dress it with organic material. Some of it can work
it's way into the holes you've left.

After aerating, over-seed with an appropriate mix of grass seed. Don't
put all your eggs in one basket. Get a blend. Ask at the local garden
center, or check with your county extension office about what the best
mix is for sun, shade or part sun and shade for your area. Don't trust
that the blends you'll find in the national retailers are the right ones
for your area. Read the labels. They just might have the right blend at
a good price -- or maybe not.

At this time you want to fertilize with a "winterizer"-type fertilizer.
Scotts is fine. Relatively expensive, but fine. You want a low nitrogen
fertilizer at this time. Your goal is to build healthy roots, not
necessarily a lot of green on top. Don't let the leaves smother your
lawn. Don't mow it for a few weeks, and when you do mow it, leave the
clippings on the lawn, and leave it taller than a putting green.
(Putting green length is not a realistic goal for a residential lawn
unless you have time and money, or lots of groundskeepers and even more
money.)

If your lawn has been in really bad shape, mid-Spring it may be
beneficial to repeat the aeration, over-seeding, and fertilizing. This
time use a normal lawn fertilizer, not a Weed 'n Feed. If you have moss
problems, a fertilizer with iron will take care of that.

Now all next spring and summer, leave your clippings on the lawn.
Ideally mow when it's dry. Shoot for a little taller than the golf
course, and never mow more than 1/3 the height of what's there. If
you're leaving clumps of clippings, get your blade sharpened. If your
mower isn't a "mulching" mower, think about getting a replacement. And
try your best to avoid mowing when wet. But it'll still be better to mow
when wet than to let it grow so long that cutting 1/3 off won't be
enough. You can always break apart the clumps of grass if you have to.

When Mother Nature stops watering enough, your sprinkling should be
infrequent, but deep. Depending on the type of grass, you'll want to put
at least an inch, but maybe up to 1-3/4 inches a week in as few
applications as possible. Stop watering before you have run-off, but if
you can get the whole allotment in at once, that is the best. Shallow,
frequent watering encourages shallow roots, which results in dead grass,
and lots of weeds. (If you run a lawn service, try this on your
customers. They'll have to pay you even more to fix the problems, and
they'll never guess you caused them because frequent watering seems like
something that should work, doesn't it?)

Pull weeds before they flower. Get the roots if you can. If you have
some that are rooted so well that you can't get them up even with a
root-puller, then apply a little Round-up to the weed. Keep in mind that
it may kill some of the grass immediately around it, leaving you with a
spot that's ripe for new weeds.

Repeat this for two or three years. As the lawn gets healthier, you can
eliminate the spring aeration, over-seeding and fertilizing. A truly
healthy lawn appreciates some winterizer-type fertilizer and aeration in
the fall, and it wants, you to leave the clippings. It works best with
deep, infrequent summer watering, and will look especially lush when
left taller than many people think when they think of a lawn. In the
long run you'll save the money you spend on fertilizers, you'll use less
water, and you'll spend less time pulling weeds. And you'll have the
best lawn on the block to boot.

Just like kicking drugs, kicking the fertilizer company habit won't be
easy in the beginning, but it will pay off big in the end if you have
the willpower to stick to it.

Or you could just rip it all up, and lay new sod each spring.

Now I've gone way off the point of your original question: No. Don't use
the Weed 'n Feed on your lawn now. Don't use any fertilizer on your lawn
at this time of the year.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug:
Support me at: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/

Joseph Meehan wrote:
.....Fertilizing is usually best in the early to mid spring and mid to late fall. More nitrogen
in the spring less in the fall......

This guy is in Northern Virginia, so it is likely he has a cool season
lawn (fescue, ryegrass or possibly bluegrass), therefore nitrogen is
much more important in the fall, not spring. The recommendation for
established lawns is 2 lb. actual nitrogen per 1,000 sq. ft. in the
fall, 1 lb or less in spring.

Warren wrote:

.....At this time you want to fertilize with a "winterizer"-type fertilizer.
Scotts is fine. Relatively expensive, but fine. You want a low nitrogen
fertilizer at this time. Your goal is to build healthy roots, not
necessarily a lot of green on top........

You want a HIGH NITROGEN fertilizer at this time. Cool season grass
needs lots of N in October and November to build roots and to store
carbohydrates for the winter.

This myth about fertilizing in spring has ruined more than a few lawns.

You're the One wrote:


Warren wrote:

.....At this time you want to fertilize with a "winterizer"-type
fertilizer.
Scotts is fine. Relatively expensive, but fine. You want a low
nitrogen
fertilizer at this time. Your goal is to build healthy roots, not
necessarily a lot of green on top........

You want a HIGH NITROGEN fertilizer at this time. Cool season grass
needs lots of N in October and November to build roots and to store
carbohydrates for the winter.



Typical spring/summer fertilizer would be something like 30-3-4, while a
winterizer fertilizer intended for fall use would be more like 20-5-14.
Lower in nitrogen, but higher in potash, and much higher in potassium. A
"starter" fertilizer would be more like 20-30-5, which is even lower in
nitrogen.

Nitrogen encourages top-growth, which is not what you want when you're
trying to establish a lawn. Before you can work on the top, you need to
work on the bottom. Part of the reason why the nitrogen percentage is
still higher than potash or potassium in all but the "starter" (where it
still is higher than the potassium) is that the nitrogen is more
soluble. You may also find that the nitrogen in these fertilizers is
bonded into time-release particles, so the entire amount of nitrogen is
not really added at the same time.

High nitrogen that isn't time-release will give you a flash of green,
unless it's too high, in which case you'll just burn it all. You don't
need a flash of green in the fall, especially if you've been leaving
your clippings on the lawn. Rather than work towards that flash of green
before the lawn is covered in snow, it is more sound to work on the
roots. High nitrogen is not the right course for fall.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug:
Support me at: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/

Usually weed-killers are most effective in the spring, and could be
detrimental when used in the fall especially if overseeding. It
would be better to used a garden sprayer with a broadleaf killer and
spot each weed, but don't do this if you plan to seed in 60 days.

On 5 Aug 2003 10:09:53 -0700, (Sunday4) wrote:

Hi,

I purchased a bag of Scott's lawn fertlizer (and weedkill) this
spring. Due to the heavy rains this season in Northern Virginia
combined with my laziness, I never got around to applying it. Is it
too late to use it now?

Scott's recommends a cycle approach where they want you to buy
different fertilizers for different seasons. Wondering if using the
"Spring" version now (early August) will adversely affect the lawn.

There's quite a bit of weed growth and the wife keeps blaming it on my
not applying fertilizer.

Thanks

Funny, I live in a like area with cool season grass and the advice has
always been as I gave it. While VA may allow for a little more nitrogen in
the fall than in my area, the idea is to avoid a lot of new soft growth
going into winter when it may be damaged by the cold.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"You're the One" wrote in message
...


Joseph Meehan wrote:
.....Fertilizing is usually best in the early to mid spring and mid to
late fall. More nitrogen
in the spring less in the fall......

This guy is in Northern Virginia, so it is likely he has a cool season
lawn (fescue, ryegrass or possibly bluegrass), therefore nitrogen is
much more important in the fall, not spring. The recommendation for
established lawns is 2 lb. actual nitrogen per 1,000 sq. ft. in the
fall, 1 lb or less in spring.

Scott's is full of shit. I fertilize my lawn one time a year in April or early
May. I use slow release organic fertilizer. Fertilizer in itself is not going
to suppress weeds. However, if you use weed and feed products you are putting
atrazine in the soil and atrazine can kill old growth trees, or other plants. If
you read the label you will not use it again.

Of course they want you on a four bag a year cycle. They make money that way.
It's so much better to spend that extra money once a year to have the turf core
aerated, use organic fertilizer once in spring, again in June (spring starts in
Texas end of Feb. early March and we fertilize in April) I use one
fertilization in spring, then if I remember I do another in the fall to sustain
the continuous growth of turf in Texas. Roots grow in winter. Feed the soil,
not the turf and you won't have those indicator weeds.


On 5 Aug 2003 10:09:53 -0700, (Sunday4) wrote:

Hi,

I purchased a bag of Scott's lawn fertlizer (and weedkill) this
spring. Due to the heavy rains this season in Northern Virginia
combined with my laziness, I never got around to applying it. Is it
too late to use it now?

Scott's recommends a cycle approach where they want you to buy
different fertilizers for different seasons. Wondering if using the
"Spring" version now (early August) will adversely affect the lawn.

There's quite a bit of weed growth and the wife keeps blaming it on my
not applying fertilizer.

Thanks

Thanks for all your feedback! I do have one of the better lawns on
the street thanks to the previous owner of my house. I've been there
2 years and did the Scotts thing last year (Spring, Summer and Fall).
Have not done anything this year. Between the time I moved into this
house and now, I've seen more weeds and a type of thick grass grow all
over the lawn in large patches.

Will what you described be available as a service in most areas? I'm
a first time home owner and don't have a lot of experience with this
type of stuff.

thanks!


"Warren" wrote in message news:wzYXa.73634$Ho3.10785@sccrnsc03...
You're the One wrote:


Warren wrote:

.....At this time you want to fertilize with a "winterizer"-type
fertilizer.
Scotts is fine. Relatively expensive, but fine. You want a low
nitrogen
fertilizer at this time. Your goal is to build healthy roots, not
necessarily a lot of green on top........

You want a HIGH NITROGEN fertilizer at this time. Cool season grass
needs lots of N in October and November to build roots and to store
carbohydrates for the winter.



Typical spring/summer fertilizer would be something like 30-3-4, while a
winterizer fertilizer intended for fall use would be more like 20-5-14.
Lower in nitrogen, but higher in potash, and much higher in potassium. A
"starter" fertilizer would be more like 20-30-5, which is even lower in
nitrogen.

Nitrogen encourages top-growth, which is not what you want when you're
trying to establish a lawn. Before you can work on the top, you need to
work on the bottom. Part of the reason why the nitrogen percentage is
still higher than potash or potassium in all but the "starter" (where it
still is higher than the potassium) is that the nitrogen is more
soluble. You may also find that the nitrogen in these fertilizers is
bonded into time-release particles, so the entire amount of nitrogen is
not really added at the same time.

High nitrogen that isn't time-release will give you a flash of green,
unless it's too high, in which case you'll just burn it all. You don't
need a flash of green in the fall, especially if you've been leaving
your clippings on the lawn. Rather than work towards that flash of green
before the lawn is covered in snow, it is more sound to work on the
roots. High nitrogen is not the right course for fall.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug:
Support me at: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/

your lawn is bermudagrass. the care and feeding requirements for
bermuda are almost completely opposite those for cool season grasses.

how 'bout them Tibetans?

animaux wrote:

.....use organic fertilizer once in spring, again in June (spring starts in
Texas end of Feb. early March and we fertilize in April) I use one
fertilization in spring, then if I remember I do another in the fall to sustain
the continuous growth of turf in Texas. Roots grow in winter.....

weed control is effective anytime weeds are actively growing. with
the crazy cool wet weather we've had, it is very possible that this is
the case where you live. if so, you might want to use it... or save
it until next spring. it will still be good to use next year during
weed season

as for lawn fertilizer's impact on our drinking water in general, I
recommend you do your own research and decide for yourself rather than
relying on others' personal opinions. if you're interested, here's
the other side of that arguement...
http://www.soils.wisc.edu/soils/N-P-Gwater.html

Phisherman wrote in message . ..
Usually weed-killers are most effective in the spring, and could be
detrimental when used in the fall especially if overseeding. It
would be better to used a garden sprayer with a broadleaf killer and
spot each weed, but don't do this if you plan to seed in 60 days.

On 5 Aug 2003 10:09:53 -0700, (Sunday4) wrote:

Hi,

I purchased a bag of Scott's lawn fertlizer (and weedkill) this
spring. Due to the heavy rains this season in Northern Virginia
combined with my laziness, I never got around to applying it. Is it
too late to use it now?

Scott's recommends a cycle approach where they want you to buy
different fertilizers for different seasons. Wondering if using the
"Spring" version now (early August) will adversely affect the lawn.

There's quite a bit of weed growth and the wife keeps blaming it on my
not applying fertilizer.

Thanks

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 09:46:24 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Funny, I live in a like area with cool season grass and the advice has
always been as I gave it. While VA may allow for a little more nitrogen in
the fall than in my area, the idea is to avoid a lot of new soft growth
going into winter when it may be damaged by the cold.

The fall fertilizer is the most important for cool season grasses.
Winter root growth will help your lawn. Most lawn fertilizer is slow
release, and that's what you want. In Tennessee we get much more
summer drought damage than winter damage, but it is looking like this
year there is no drought--rain,rain,rain.

"Phisherman" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 09:46:24 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

Funny, I live in a like area with cool season grass and the advice
has
always been as I gave it. While VA may allow for a little more nitrogen
in
the fall than in my area, the idea is to avoid a lot of new soft growth
going into winter when it may be damaged by the cold.

The fall fertilizer is the most important for cool season grasses.
Winter root growth will help your lawn. Most lawn fertilizer is slow
release,

Not in my experience. Most commerical lawn fertilizer is fast release,
which we agree is not what anyone wants, especially in the fall. Maybe you
wanted to say most FALL lawn fertilizer is slow release? There does seem to
be more slow release products which are indicated for fall use.

and that's what you want. In Tennessee we get much more
summer drought damage than winter damage, but it is looking like this
year there is no drought--rain,rain,rain.