On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:54:16 GMT, Lar wrote:

have no desire to put in the time
to create an organic paradise.
too lazy to assume a practice that is NO MORE DIFFICULT OR
DEMANDING. You prefer to remain nearsighted. Some of us have the data
from converting major gardens and saving thousands of dollars and
hours!

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:54:16 GMT, Lar
wrote:

have no desire to put in the time
to create an organic paradise.
too lazy to assume a practice that is NO MORE DIFFICULT OR
DEMANDING. You prefer to remain nearsighted. Some of us have the
data
from converting major gardens and saving thousands of dollars and
hours!

Nice rant... I still don't see any alternative posted. At least any
that a "non-organic" gardener would recognize.

I remember someone posted something about an oil, but I don't remember
what it's called and I don't recall seeing anything like it on a store
shelf. "Hit it with a hose" is not helpful at all - especially if
plants are indoors.

Hmmm . . . I truly wonder why you are doing this at all. Aside
from killing off the paper wasps that build their nests over
doors and in trash cans, we haven't used any insecticide in our
yard at all for three years -- in 2000 we had a massive
infestation of one of the peach trees with tent caterpillars; a
single application of pyrethrin cured that -- and we have
remarkably little in the way of insect damage to our plants. The
beneficial insects, and birds, and reptiles, and amphibians, and
little grey shrews all happily munch away keeping the damaging
insects, and each other, under control. It's cheap, easy,
effective, sustainable, and one heck of a lot less toxic to both
you and the environment.

Chris Owens

Pelvis Popcan wrote:

I have been spraying my ornamental flowers every 14 days starting in
June with Carbaryl (Sevin).

This past Monday, two days after I sprayed on Saturday, I was pruning
off deadheads and dead or yellow leaves from my plants when I came to
two containers of convolvulus that had quite a few yellow leaves. I
noticed a very pungent odor. After I clipped a couple of leaves off, I
noticed that tons of pieces were flaking off of them. I discovered
that the pieces were live aphids. The under sides of all of the leaves
were clotted with them.

I was able to kill them off using Raid House and Garden spray.

I did some research and discovered that Carbaryl is ineffective at
killing aphids, even though the website for Sevin (gardentech.com)
lists aphids on their pest list. After searching for "aphid" and
"carbaryl," I read of some studies where aphid population dramatically
increased after spraying repeatedly with Carbaryl. This is because
Carbaryl doesn't kill aphids but does kill most of their natural
predators (namely ladybugs).

I have decided to switch from Carbaryl to Esfenvalerate (Ortho Bug Be
Gone Concentrate).


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On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 02:21:17 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:


"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 18:54:16 GMT, Lar
wrote:

have no desire to put in the time
to create an organic paradise.
too lazy to assume a practice that is NO MORE DIFFICULT OR
DEMANDING. You prefer to remain nearsighted. Some of us have the
data
from converting major gardens and saving thousands of dollars and
hours!

Nice rant... I still don't see any alternative posted. At least any
that a "non-organic" gardener would recognize.

I remember someone posted something about an oil, but I don't remember
what it's called and I don't recall seeing anything like it on a store
shelf. "Hit it with a hose" is not helpful at all - especially if
plants are indoors.



Nice show of helpless ignorance....

Why not use your browser and do a simple search? I searched "oil
aphid" in google and got dozens of sites with great information. But,
you're really not looking for a safe and sane alternative are you?

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...nt&q=oil+aphid

Or add the word "interior" and get more specific information, suited
to your situation.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...=Google+Search

That's a little tougher since you'd have to go to the second link
found for information specific to your situation,

Ever consider carrying your plants outside, hosing, and carrying back
in?

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 13:38:25 -0400, Pelvis Popcan
wrote:

I use a strong water spray on my plants every day. It doesn't get off
all the bugs.

The number one pest I have is Japanese Beetles. I've tried spraying
them, picking them off, etc. They eat new buds, they eat the leaves,
it's horrible. I have four Japanese Beetle traps around my yard. These
are the plastic traps that hold about 10x more beetles than the bags.
Every three days, each trap is filled to the top. It's THAT bad.

Yep. My resort to something-in-a-can was in response to Japanese
beetles. Sprinkled some dust on one plant where the critter had nearly
eaten the whole thing (the plant died anyhow).

I believe opinion on the traps is mixed. Some say the pheromones in
the traps attract beetles too well, They sure are persistent buggers.
And hungry. Here's a site with some fairly neutral info:

http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/h...e/jbeetle.html

I didn't notice that the group here was anti-pesticide. I apologize
and will refrain from posting more info about it.

Many of us *aren't* entirely "anti-pesticide", but your descroption of
'spray this, spray that, switch to something else' is more or less a
perfect description of organic gardeners' arguments as to why
wholesale use of toxic chemical controls often fail.

I wrote Sevin "hope you weren't trying to grow any veg crops" and
you say no. I should have written "hope no one in the neighborhood was
trying to grow veg, or encourage bees or butterflies."

In short (or long), many people are trying to trade information and
methods on effectively controlling pests, both weeds and bugs, with as
little "collateral damage" as possible.

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 17:15:25 -0700, Tom Jaszewski
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 13:33:42 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

That's waay too much for even my
"non-organic" views.

Way to go Frogleg!!!!

Tom, I disagree with you almost every time I check into the group, but
if you'll give me a little slack and I give you some, I think we can
achieve some relatively common ground. I've been realizing that with
education and experience, I've been unconsciously moving
'organic-side' in many respects. Just don't make me give up my RoundUp
or MiracleGro. :-) No Sevin. No Weed'n'Feed. No broadcast anything.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:12:12 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

Just don't make me give up my RoundUp
or MiracleGro. :-)
The way you're moving you'll soon see the error in your ways! :)

Nice rant... I still don't see any alternative posted. At least any
that a "non-organic" gardener would recognize.

I remember someone posted something about an oil, but I don't
remember
what it's called and I don't recall seeing anything like it on a
store
shelf. "Hit it with a hose" is not helpful at all - especially if
plants are indoors.

Nice show of helpless ignorance....

Yup...

Why not use your browser and do a simple search? I searched "oil
aphid" in google and got dozens of sites with great information.
But,
you're really not looking for a safe and sane alternative are you?

I'm looking for what works... Chemical or organic. I'll use what I can
find. If organic means something I can mix up in my kitchen or pick up
locally, great. If it means spending hours on the phone/email
searching and waiting weeks for a shipment, I'll pass. When I find a
problem, I go to the store and look on the shelves. If I see something
that says it will work, I buy it and use it.

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...nt&q=oil+aphid

Or add the word "interior" and get more specific information, suited
to your situation.

I don't have an aphid problem myself... Soap and water works for that.
I've only lost one plant to aphids and it was a Hybiscus.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work on my spider mites nor fungus gnats. I
didn't see any organic replies when I asked about them a while back,
either.


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...=Google+Search

That's a little tougher since you'd have to go to the second link
found for information specific to your situation,

Ever consider carrying your plants outside, hosing, and carrying
back
in?

Try that with an Ivy plant that 12 or more feet long, in a 4 foot long
planter, mounted to a stair well. Doesn't work so well. Same goes for
my 20 foot philodendron (sp?)... it runs from my second story down
into my basement stairwell.

Most of my other plants would be knocked out of their pots from the
pressure of the hose.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:12:12 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

Tom, I disagree with you almost every time I check into the group, but
if you'll give me a little slack and I give you some, I think we can
achieve some relatively common ground. I've been realizing that with
education and experience, I've been unconsciously moving
'organic-side' in many respects. Just don't make me give up my RoundUp
or MiracleGro. :-) No Sevin. No Weed'n'Feed. No broadcast anything.

It's a start! Did you know Scultz makes a new water soluble fertilizer which
also has humates? I use it on my container plants, particularly on the
brugmansia which eat and eat. I don't use it in the ground, for that I use only
certified organic and compost.

If you continue to come over to organic method, you are going to find not only
is it easier, but much more effective.

V

USEFULL? idiotic, near sited and irresponsible and you think you are
useful? CLUELESS!

I did not know that Sevin didn't kill aphids, so it's my thinking that
the information would be useful for others who don't know that.

The mistake I made is that I posted the message without realizing that
this group was anti-pesticide. For that I apologize.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 16:18:27 -0400, Noone wrote:

USEFULL? idiotic, near sited and irresponsible and you think you are
useful? CLUELESS!

I did not know that Sevin didn't kill aphids, so it's my thinking that
the information would be useful for others who don't know that.

The mistake I made is that I posted the message without realizing that
this group was anti-pesticide. For that I apologize.
No this group is NOt anti pesticide. There are plenty of unconcerned
users and abusers of pesticides posting regularly. If you'd read the
damn labels you'd not need other clueless abusers to educate
you...sheesh!

No comments on this, Tom?

Didn't think so.

"Some One" wrote in message
. ca...
Nice rant... I still don't see any alternative posted. At least
any
that a "non-organic" gardener would recognize.

I remember someone posted something about an oil, but I don't
remember
what it's called and I don't recall seeing anything like it on a
store
shelf. "Hit it with a hose" is not helpful at all - especially if
plants are indoors.

Nice show of helpless ignorance....

Yup...

Why not use your browser and do a simple search? I searched "oil
aphid" in google and got dozens of sites with great information.
But,
you're really not looking for a safe and sane alternative are you?

I'm looking for what works... Chemical or organic. I'll use what I
can
find. If organic means something I can mix up in my kitchen or pick
up
locally, great. If it means spending hours on the phone/email
searching and waiting weeks for a shipment, I'll pass. When I find a
problem, I go to the store and look on the shelves. If I see
something
that says it will work, I buy it and use it.

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...nt&q=oil+aphid

Or add the word "interior" and get more specific information,
suited
to your situation.

I don't have an aphid problem myself... Soap and water works for
that.
I've only lost one plant to aphids and it was a Hybiscus.
Unfortunately, it doesn't work on my spider mites nor fungus gnats.
I
didn't see any organic replies when I asked about them a while back,
either.



http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...=Google+Search

That's a little tougher since you'd have to go to the second link
found for information specific to your situation,

Ever consider carrying your plants outside, hosing, and carrying
back
in?

Try that with an Ivy plant that 12 or more feet long, in a 4 foot
long
planter, mounted to a stair well. Doesn't work so well. Same goes
for
my 20 foot philodendron (sp?)... it runs from my second story down
into my basement stairwell.

Most of my other plants would be knocked out of their pots from the
pressure of the hose.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 03:02:43 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

No comments on this, Tom?

Didn't think so.

As usual you excel at not thinking. I just live in wait with baited
breath for you anonymous troll....idjet....

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:48:13 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

Try that with an Ivy plant that 12 or more feet long, in a 4 foot long
planter, mounted to a stair well. Doesn't work so well. Same goes for
my 20 foot philodendron (sp?)... it runs from my second story down
into my basement stairwell.

Most of my other plants would be knocked out of their pots from the
pressure of the hose.

What a gardener, Hybiscus in Calgary. And that piece of shit Pothos
is likely infested because of the abnormal form you're growing it in.
It's ashame you can't go to the shelf and find some gardening smarts.

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 13:48:13 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:

Try that with an Ivy plant that 12 or more feet long, in a 4 foot long
planter, mounted to a stair well.


Well Steve, the pictures prove what I suspected....that stairwell is
all of what? 4 feet.

What a bullshit artist!

http://www.csd.ca/pictures/images/Livingroom%201.jpg

So you think those single leaders are large and difficult to treat?

http://www.csd.ca/pictures/images/Livingroom%203.jpg

Stick with computers....