"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...

Thanks! But be careful of referring to it, else the thread
metastasize.

billo

Yes, I'm aware of that because I was the object of an attack by the an
individual who referred me by using every word in "The Book of Slang." I
also asked for credentials but received none. Enuf said!

John

Frogleg wrote:

It also begs the questions - how are tulip bulbs produced for sale in
the first place?

Very good question. Hope someone knows the answer.

I actually caught the answer in the article I linked. The Dutch do it
with special machines in bulb sheds.

"Roozen explains that Holland's sandy soil, and the proven ability of
the Dutch to perform miracles of hydraulic engineering (meaning they
can get water to do just about anything they want), actually offer
some of the most excellent growing conditions for tulip bulbs on the
planet. To get the bulbs to not only return but to multiply (sort of a
prerequisite for supporting an ongoing industry) is a bit more
problematic.

'Professional Dutch growers subject their plant stock to an ingenious
series of heat and humidity treatments each summer before planting,'
explains Roozen. Developed over the past 400 years, this manipulation
of temperature and humidity levels allows growers today to perfectly
replicate the tulip's native habitat.

By the time the bulbs are tucked into the sandy Dutch soil for their
winter's sleep (and Mother Nature's 'cold treatment') the bulbs have
been fooled into thinking they've been through another summer drought
in the Himalayas!

This is why Dutch growers always have scads of tulip bulbs to sell
each fall, and the rest of us, left to our own climactic devices, have
dwindling stocks.

'Don't try this at home,' warns Roozen, 'the process for temperature-
treating bulbs is quite tricky, requiring years of experience and
expensive climate control systems such as the ones you see in Dutch
bulb sheds.'"

Deer Suck

On 19 Aug 2003 11:30:34 GMT, (Bill Oliver) wrote:

In article ,
B & J wrote:
"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...

As an aside, deer also browse lilies and seem to prefer the scented trumpet
and orientals over the asiatics. They don't browse the foliage but select
the flowers and buds. I think the scent from the flowers of both tulips and
lilies is what attracts them.


Hmmm... Maybe it isn't deer then -- I just assumed so, since
I have caught the deer eating back the English ivy and munching
on my vegetable garden. It's a hell of a note. I live on a 1/3 acre
lot, and have seen six deer shoulder to shoulder in my back yard
munching away.

Anyway, my tulips were eaten down to about 1 inch above the
ground. One small tulip had been pulled from the gound, and
the bulb was laying on the grass. Whatever this is, it isn't
just eating the flowers and buds.

billo

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:17:53 GMT, Pam wrote:

Frogleg wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:04:10 -0400, Pelvis Popcan
wrote:

It also begs the questions - how are tulip bulbs produced for sale in
the first place?

Very good question. Hope someone knows the answer.
snip
I live in one of the largest tulip bulb producing areas of the world - we
actually generate more tulip bulbs in the Skagit Valley of Washington
State than are grown in Holland. Heck, we even ship 'em to Holland!

No kidding! You learn something new every day.

bulbs are dug each year after the foliage dies back, are sorted by size
and age, kept in dry storage over the summer and are replanted (by machine
- we are talking 100's of acres here) each fall. Bulbs that are harvested
for sale are three to five years old, so those little baby bulbs you find
if you dig up your own tulips do indeed mature to full size, flower
producing bulbs PROVIDED they get the right conditions and care. Unlike
narcissus, tulip bulbs do not split (or shouldn't - if they split you
have damaged them in digging) or produce multiple "noses"- they do produce
offsets or baby bulbs each year which is what is grown on by the growers
to produce full size bulbs.

So what you're saying is it's probably easier (and cheaper!) to just
plant new tulips each fall and enjoy the spring display. And hope you
might either have ideal growing conditions, or one of the varieties
that *does* come back/multiply in place. At least I can stop thinking
of my lack of success as a personality flaw. :-) Thanks.

On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:33:28 -0400, Pelvis Popcan
wrote:

Frogleg wrote:

It also begs the questions - how are tulip bulbs produced for sale in
the first place?

Very good question. Hope someone knows the answer.

I actually caught the answer in the article I linked. The Dutch do it
with special machines in bulb sheds.

When I read this, I imagined some Frankenstein factory where clay,
straw, and dry ice were employed in a sort of dark, Rube Goldberg
process to manufacture "tulip" (hah!) bulbs. The real story is much
less exciting. :-(

Next question: where did tulips originate? The Himalayas? Ah hah! just
stumbled on:

"They originate from Asia, their prime genetic centre being in the
Tien-Shan and Pamir Alai mountain ranges, near modern Islamabad, close
to the border of Russia and China. Tulips spread from these areas to
other regions, including China and Mongolia and a secondary genetic
centre was developed in Azerbaijan and Armenia."


"Roozen explains that Holland's sandy soil, and the proven ability of
the Dutch to perform miracles of hydraulic engineering (meaning they
can get water to do just about anything they want), actually offer
some of the most excellent growing conditions for tulip bulbs on the
planet. To get the bulbs to not only return but to multiply (sort of a
prerequisite for supporting an ongoing industry) is a bit more
problematic.

'Professional Dutch growers subject their plant stock to an ingenious
series of heat and humidity treatments each summer before planting,'
explains Roozen. Developed over the past 400 years, this manipulation
of temperature and humidity levels allows growers today to perfectly
replicate the tulip's native habitat.

By the time the bulbs are tucked into the sandy Dutch soil for their
winter's sleep (and Mother Nature's 'cold treatment') the bulbs have
been fooled into thinking they've been through another summer drought
in the Himalayas!

This is why Dutch growers always have scads of tulip bulbs to sell
each fall, and the rest of us, left to our own climactic devices, have
dwindling stocks.

'Don't try this at home,' warns Roozen, 'the process for temperature-
treating bulbs is quite tricky, requiring years of experience and
expensive climate control systems such as the ones you see in Dutch
bulb sheds.'"

Frogleg wrote:

"They originate from Asia, their prime genetic centre being in the
Tien-Shan and Pamir Alai mountain ranges, near modern Islamabad, close
to the border of Russia and China. Tulips spread from these areas to
other regions, including China and Mongolia and a secondary genetic
centre was developed in Azerbaijan and Armenia."

Yep, they're actually a type of lily. If their petals opened all the
way, they'd look like lilies. In fact, Dutch Gardens actually has some
tulips that *do* in fact open way up and look like lilies:

http://www.dutchgardens.com/sell.asp?ProdGroupID=16591

....which they say behaves like a perennial in the USA.

In article ,
(Marley1372) wrote:

Tulips are perennials to at least zone 5, maybe colder. You can leave them in
the ground though most people plant new ones every year. They will flower
every year as long as you let the foliage die off naturally.

Toad

They do just fine here in Zone 3. No replanting necessary, if they're in
decent soil to start with.

Jan

On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:04:52 -0500, Kevin Miller
wrote:


Deer Suck

{snip}

Actually they are quit tasty when properly treated afield and by the
processor.

Just reread this post and realized that I live in pretty much ideal tulip
conditions which is why all of Kamloops plants tulips in theur beds and
forget about them. They come back every year around here. Probably most of
northern US and all of Canada have the right conditions.

--
Jayel
in Zone 5a
"Pam" wrote in message
...


Frogleg wrote:

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:04:10 -0400, Pelvis Popcan
wrote:

I was surprised to learn that tulip bulbs split apart and form small
bulbs that usually don't flower the following year. I was planning on
planting a bed of tulips this fall, but I'm not sure now knowing that
I will have to replant them every year.

I know that there are perennial tulips, which are gigantic 5-6" bulbs
that don't split for several years, but I really wanted some more
unique colors that aren't available as perennial tulips.

My experience has been that while some tulips re-bloom for a year or
possibly 2, they mostly disappear. Not at all like daffodils, which
reliably multiply in place. Every year, I have *leaves* coming up,
usually only 1 or 2, but not blooms. I never paid attention to whether
they were advertised as perennial or not, and just chose from the
pretty pictures. :-) Zone 7b.

It also begs the questions - how are tulip bulbs produced for sale in
the first place?

Very good question. Hope someone knows the answer.

Tulips common to our gardens in the present time are very highly
hybridized from the species that was their parentage. That combined with
the fact that most gardens do not provide conditions ideal for their long
term viability is why they appear to be less perennial in their culture
than we would like. The secret to successful perennializing is exceptional
drainage, virtually no summer moisture, and sufficient cold periods
through the winter. Species tulips are reliably perennial, the hybrids
much less so, although I have some that have continued to produce for at
least 10 years now, although their strength and numbers fade each season.

I live in one of the largest tulip bulb producing areas of the world - we
actually generate more tulip bulbs in the Skagit Valley of Washington
State than are grown in Holland. Heck, we even ship 'em to Holland! The
bulbs are dug each year after the foliage dies back, are sorted by size
and age, kept in dry storage over the summer and are replanted (by machine
- we are talking 100's of acres here) each fall. Bulbs that are harvested
for sale are three to five years old, so those little baby bulbs you find
if you dig up your own tulips do indeed mature to full size, flower
producing bulbs PROVIDED they get the right conditions and care. Unlike
narcissus, tulip bulbs do not split (or shouldn't - if they split you
have damaged them in digging) or produce multiple "noses"- they do produce
offsets or baby bulbs each year which is what is grown on by the growers
to produce full size bulbs.

pam - gardengal

"J. Lane" wrote in message
. ..
Just reread this post and realized that I live in pretty much ideal tulip
conditions which is why all of Kamloops plants tulips in theur beds and
forget about them. They come back every year around here. Probably most of
northern US and all of Canada have the right conditions.
Jayel,
Actually, the Pacific west coast of north America, particularly east of
the cascade and coastal ranges has a very similar climate to the inland
regions of Turkey, where many tulip species are native. Like that region,
you have cold, relatively snowy winters, and dry summers. If you looked at
the climatic data for Ankara, for instance, you would find it nearly
identical to your own. As is mine, in Spokane, Washington. I'm not sure that
Canada from the Great Lakes eastward would be as great an environemnt for
tulip perennializing, because the summers are so much wetter and more
humid - but I suspect the cold winters are the most important factor.