http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N21300506.htm

Reuters AlertNet
"WASHINGTON, Aug 21 (Reuters) - Fourteen Ohio teen-agers trying to get a
free 'high' off plants out of their gardens ended up in the emergency
room, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Thursday.

"The youngsters evidently thought they could get stoned by eating the
seeds of a local plant called the moonflower but did not realize they
were toxic, the CDC said."

[...]

Sal
--
Ye olde swarm of links: 4K+ links for writers, researchers and the
terminally curious http://www.internet-resources.com/writers

In article ,
Towse wrote:
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N21300506.htm

Reuters AlertNet
"WASHINGTON, Aug 21 (Reuters) - Fourteen Ohio teen-agers trying to get a
free 'high' off plants out of their gardens ended up in the emergency
room, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Thursday.

"The youngsters evidently thought they could get stoned by eating the
seeds of a local plant called the moonflower but did not realize they
were toxic, the CDC said."


They can.

For a good description, see:

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16212


As Robert Beverly noted about soldiers in Jamestown, Virginia who accidentally
ate Datura stramonium in their salad (hence "Jamestown weed" then "jimsonweed"):

And some of them ate plentifully of it, the effect of which was a
very pleasant Comedy; for they turned natural Fools upon it for
several Days. One would blow a Feather in the Air; another would
dart straws at it with much fury; and another stark naked was
sitting up in a Corner, like a Monkey grinning and making Mows at
them; a Fourth would fondly kiss and paw his Companions, and sneer
in their Faces with a Countenance more antik than any in a Dutch
Droll.


From Clinical Toxicology, CJ Polson, 3rd ed.


billo

Bill Oliver wrote:

In article ,
Towse wrote:

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N21300506.htm

Reuters AlertNet
"WASHINGTON, Aug 21 (Reuters) - Fourteen Ohio teen-agers trying to get a
free 'high' off plants out of their gardens ended up in the emergency
room, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Thursday.

"The youngsters evidently thought they could get stoned by eating the
seeds of a local plant called the moonflower but did not realize they
were toxic, the CDC said."



They can.

For a good description, see:

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16212


As Robert Beverly noted about soldiers in Jamestown, Virginia who accidentally
ate Datura stramonium in their salad (hence "Jamestown weed" then "jimsonweed"):

And some of them ate plentifully of it, the effect of which was a
very pleasant Comedy; for they turned natural Fools upon it for
several Days. One would blow a Feather in the Air; another would
dart straws at it with much fury; and another stark naked was
sitting up in a Corner, like a Monkey grinning and making Mows at
them; a Fourth would fondly kiss and paw his Companions, and sneer
in their Faces with a Countenance more antik than any in a Dutch
Droll.


From Clinical Toxicology, CJ Polson, 3rd ed.

It's a matter of dosage, I understand. The fine line between just enough
and too much seems to vary from soul to soul and from plant to plant.

Sal
--
Ye olde swarm of links: 4K+ links for writers, researchers and the
terminally curious http://www.internet-resources.com/writers

Bill Oliver wrote:

For a good description, see:

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=16212


As Robert Beverly noted about soldiers in Jamestown, Virginia who accidentally
ate Datura stramonium in their salad (hence "Jamestown weed" then "jimsonweed"):

And some of them ate plentifully of it, the effect of which was a
very pleasant Comedy; for they turned natural Fools upon it for
several Days. One would blow a Feather in the Air; another would
dart straws at it with much fury; and another stark naked was
sitting up in a Corner, like a Monkey grinning and making Mows at
them; a Fourth would fondly kiss and paw his Companions, and sneer
in their Faces with a Countenance more antik than any in a Dutch
Droll.


From Clinical Toxicology, CJ Polson, 3rd ed.

Thanks for the link, btw. I've been interested in the effects ever since
we had a case similar to the Ohio case out here.

I also found this today: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=1823

Ah, for the good ol' days of nutmeg and Heavenly Blue morning glories.

Sal
--
Ye olde swarm of links: 4K+ links for writers, researchers and the
terminally curious http://www.internet-resources.com/writers

Just about all nightshade plants (solanacea family) have some part of the plant
which is poisonous. Tomato has foliage which is toxic to humans...etc.

Eating D.inoxia seed or any datura for that matter is not a new thing to do.
It's been used for astral travel for many, many, many years.


On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:06:13 -0700, Towse opined:

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N21300506.htm

Reuters AlertNet
"WASHINGTON, Aug 21 (Reuters) - Fourteen Ohio teen-agers trying to get a
free 'high' off plants out of their gardens ended up in the emergency
room, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Thursday.

"The youngsters evidently thought they could get stoned by eating the
seeds of a local plant called the moonflower but did not realize they
were toxic, the CDC said."

[...]

Sal

In article ,
Towse wrote:



From Clinical Toxicology, CJ Polson, 3rd ed.

It's a matter of dosage, I understand. The fine line between just enough
and too much seems to vary from soul to soul and from plant to plant.


Yeah. A few kids end up on the table every time Castaneda becomes
popular again. If you look at the literature, sporadic clusters
of people, usually adolescent males (in the US), pop up every
two or three years.

It could be worse, there are 10 times more people poisoned by
Philodendrons every year. I don't know what it is about
kids and Philodendrons. At least that is almost never fatal.


My favorite is still "mad honey" made by bees from the nectar
of Rhododendrons and azaleas.

See:

Sutlupinar N, Mat A, Satganoglu Y. Poisoning by toxic honey in Turkey.
Arch Toxicol. 1993;67(2):148-50


billo

In article ,
Towse wrote:


Ah, for the good ol' days of nutmeg and Heavenly Blue morning glories.


Good God. Have you ever actually tried to eat one of those nutmeg
slurries? It's not worth the effort for anybody out of prison. We
used to see that in prisoners, they got the high and then the illness
following got them into sick call for a couple of days.

billo

In article ,
animaux wrote:
Just about all nightshade plants (solanacea family) have some part of the plant
which is poisonous. Tomato has foliage which is toxic to humans...etc.

Eating D.inoxia seed or any datura for that matter is not a new thing to do.
It's been used for astral travel for many, many, many years.



Heh. Yeah, travel right to the autopsy table.


billo

On 22 Aug 2003 19:54:30 GMT, (Bill Oliver) opined:


Heh. Yeah, travel right to the autopsy table.


billo

Well billo, not EVERYTHING has something to do with you. There are Indians who
still use datura in their sweat lodge experiences. The difference is, they know
what they're doing. Idiotic kids who read Carlos and pop some datura probably
don't realize they are eating what will likely be their last thing to ingest.

Heh. Ain't that funny. Yeah.

In article ,
animaux wrote:
On 22 Aug 2003 19:54:30 GMT, (Bill Oliver) opined:


Heh. Yeah, travel right to the autopsy table.


billo

Well billo, not EVERYTHING has something to do with you. There are Indians who
still use datura in their sweat lodge experiences. The difference is, they know
what they're doing. Idiotic kids who read Carlos and pop some datura probably
don't realize they are eating what will likely be their last thing to ingest.

Heh. Ain't that funny. Yeah.

Mention Roundup and you have seizures. But scopolamine and
atropine, well, that's another story. That's fine as long
as "they know what they are doing."

Good God.


Let me guess. It's *organic* scopolamine.


billo

On 23 Aug 2003 01:14:33 GMT, (Bill Oliver) opined:

In article ,
animaux wrote:
On 22 Aug 2003 19:54:30 GMT, (Bill Oliver) opined:


Heh. Yeah, travel right to the autopsy table.


billo

Well billo, not EVERYTHING has something to do with you. There are Indians who
still use datura in their sweat lodge experiences. The difference is, they know
what they're doing. Idiotic kids who read Carlos and pop some datura probably
don't realize they are eating what will likely be their last thing to ingest.

Heh. Ain't that funny. Yeah.

Mention Roundup and you have seizures. But scopolamine and
atropine, well, that's another story. That's fine as long
as "they know what they are doing."

Good God.


Let me guess. It's *organic* scopolamine.


billo

No, it's their ancient ritual they've been using for many, many years before we
arrived and slaughtered them and the bison.

In article ,
animaux wrote:

No, it's their ancient ritual they've been using for many, many years before we
arrived and slaughtered them and the bison.


Yes, it has old uses in all cultures, even those of the evil Europeans and
the nasty icky poo evil white man. The Indians used Datura for many purposes
and had its associated mortality. Your intimation that it was used without
mortality and morbidity is a bit of wishful thinking. People died during
those ceremonies, particularly the Algonquin huskanaw ritual. And of
course, the noble Native American practice of using Datura to render women
malleable before burying them alive upon the death of their husbands makes
the more dramatic toxic effects rather moot.


billo

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
Yes, it has old uses in all cultures, even those of the evil Europeans and
the nasty icky poo evil white man. The Indians used Datura for many
purposes
and had its associated mortality. Your intimation that it was used
without
mortality and morbidity is a bit of wishful thinking. People died during
those ceremonies, particularly the Algonquin huskanaw ritual. And of
course, the noble Native American practice of using Datura to render women
malleable before burying them alive upon the death of their husbands makes
the more dramatic toxic effects rather moot.

Much as I'm probably going to regret this, your post has me asking the
following questions:

1) You note that people died during the Algonquin huskanaw ritual. Would
you please elaborate on your sources and any citations you have for it?

2) You note the "Native American" practice, this is a meaningless phrase,
as far as I can tell, when it comes to the rest of your post. It certainly
was not a practice in many, if not most, tribes here in Northern America,
which tribe or tribes are you referring to?

I'm currently pursuing a degree in history, formerly I was a plasma etch
research and development engineer in semiconductor manufacturing, and I am
always interested in increasing my knowledge.

Philip

I would certainly be interested too because I have never heard of any native american
ritual of wife burial. Ingrid

"Philip" wrote:
1) You note that people died during the Algonquin huskanaw ritual. Would
you please elaborate on your sources and any citations you have for it?

2) You note the "Native American" practice, this is a meaningless phrase,
as far as I can tell, when it comes to the rest of your post. It certainly
was not a practice in many, if not most, tribes here in Northern America,
which tribe or tribes are you referring to?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
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Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

In article NFX1b.239483$o%2.109285@sccrnsc02,
Philip wrote:

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
Yes, it has old uses in all cultures, even those of the evil Europeans and
the nasty icky poo evil white man. The Indians used Datura for many
purposes
and had its associated mortality. Your intimation that it was used
without
mortality and morbidity is a bit of wishful thinking. People died during
those ceremonies, particularly the Algonquin huskanaw ritual. And of
course, the noble Native American practice of using Datura to render women
malleable before burying them alive upon the death of their husbands makes
the more dramatic toxic effects rather moot.

Much as I'm probably going to regret this, your post has me asking the
following questions:

1) You note that people died during the Algonquin huskanaw ritual. Would
you please elaborate on your sources and any citations you have for it?

2) You note the "Native American" practice, this is a meaningless phrase,
as far as I can tell, when it comes to the rest of your post. It certainly
was not a practice in many, if not most, tribes here in Northern America,
which tribe or tribes are you referring to?


No problem. One web site is:

http://tinyurl.com/l2fq


And, of course, "Native American" is meaningless. I only use
it in response to the kind of statements animaux makes.


billo