"animaux" wrote in message
...


Fortunately, many, many people in my age bracket 45-50 are coming into
this age
from growing up in the 60s, where conscience raising was prevalent. There
is no
way I can buy merchandize any more which I KNOW is being made by either
children, or very poor people.

I understand your motives, but If you won't buy things made by very poor
people, how are they supposed to survive? It's usually necessary for the
whole family to work just to keep alive. I don't know if you've ever
travelled in poor remote areas, such as the Andes, but people there who are
lucky enough to have a couple of chickens don't eat the eggs; they sell them
so they can buy things like flour which will provide more bulk and fill
their stomachs.

Childhood can be viewed as a luxury provided by well-to-do societies.
Children have traditionally learned to work alongside their parents as soon
as they were able to help.

In a similar vein, I've heard people say that if they were to move to an
underdeveloped country, they couldn't imagine hiring a maid, since they feel
it would be a demeaning position for the maid; yet in actual fact, they
would be resented by the locals, who would view them as "rich" yet not
contributing to the economy by providing at least one person with a chance
to feed their family.

Lana

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:49:15 +0200, "szozu" hoppbunny at hotmail dot
com wrote:


"animaux" wrote

There is no
way I can buy merchandize any more which I KNOW is being made by either
children, or very poor people.

I understand your motives, but If you won't buy things made by very poor
people, how are they supposed to survive?

Childhood can be viewed as a luxury provided by well-to-do societies.
Children have traditionally learned to work alongside their parents as soon
as they were able to help.

In a similar vein, I've heard people say that if they were to move to an
underdeveloped country, they couldn't imagine hiring a maid, since they feel
it would be a demeaning position for the maid; yet in actual fact, they
would be resented by the locals, who would view them as "rich" yet not
contributing to the economy by providing at least one person with a chance
to feed their family.

Interesting points. "I have to fire you because someone told me I was
oppressing you." I think intelligent, well-informed campaigns to
expose and improve conditions under which brand-name items are
produced is a Good Thing. There *must* be some middle ground between
brutal worker exploitation, and trying to force Guatemalan industries
to pay US minimum wage.

Animaux says she would never buy merchandise she *knows* is made by
very poor people or children. How does one know? How poor is "very
poor"? Lobby for fair coffee prices, or for laws designed to regulate
child labor in foreign countries. Badger Nike and Anne Klein to make
sure their foreign contractors are providing conditions at least as
good and preferably better than the local norm. We might also take a
look at the conditions our own workers labor under. Child labor
(except on farms, mostly) isn't a problem, but minimum wage workers
are regularly treated very badly in many situations.

Before my mom had me and my 3 brothers, she worked at one time for the PaperMate
Pen company and the pay was low, 2cents per pen made and their was only ONE
restroom for some 50 lady workers and No Brakes of anykind, lunch was a 10min
deal if you got it at all. All this for a 10 hour work day 6 days of the week.
Where was this? Right down in Los Angeles after the war. Wonder where they are
made now?


Plus I've never been Rich, and now I live on a fixed disabilty income that's
just enough to keep me going.



--
"In this universe the night was falling,the shadows were lengthening
towards an east that would not know another dawn.
But elsewhere the stars were still young and the light of morning
lingered: and along the path he once had followed, man would one day go
again."

Arthur C. Clarke, The City & The Stars

SIAR
www.starlords.org
Freelance Writers Shop
http://www.freelancewrittersshop.netfirms.com
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Ad World
http://adworld.netfirms.com

"Frogleg" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:49:15 +0200, "szozu" hoppbunny at hotmail dot
com wrote:


"animaux" wrote

There is no
way I can buy merchandize any more which I KNOW is being made by either
children, or very poor people.

I understand your motives, but If you won't buy things made by very poor
people, how are they supposed to survive?

Childhood can be viewed as a luxury provided by well-to-do societies.
Children have traditionally learned to work alongside their parents as soon
as they were able to help.

In a similar vein, I've heard people say that if they were to move to an
underdeveloped country, they couldn't imagine hiring a maid, since they feel
it would be a demeaning position for the maid; yet in actual fact, they
would be resented by the locals, who would view them as "rich" yet not
contributing to the economy by providing at least one person with a chance
to feed their family.

Interesting points. "I have to fire you because someone told me I was
oppressing you." I think intelligent, well-informed campaigns to
expose and improve conditions under which brand-name items are
produced is a Good Thing. There *must* be some middle ground between
brutal worker exploitation, and trying to force Guatemalan industries
to pay US minimum wage.

Animaux says she would never buy merchandise she *knows* is made by
very poor people or children. How does one know? How poor is "very
poor"? Lobby for fair coffee prices, or for laws designed to regulate
child labor in foreign countries. Badger Nike and Anne Klein to make
sure their foreign contractors are providing conditions at least as
good and preferably better than the local norm. We might also take a
look at the conditions our own workers labor under. Child labor
(except on farms, mostly) isn't a problem, but minimum wage workers
are regularly treated very badly in many situations.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.528 / Virus Database: 324 - Release Date: 10/16/03

"Starlord" wrote in
:

Before my mom had me and my 3 brothers, she worked at one time for the
PaperMate Pen company and the pay was low, 2cents per pen made and
their was only ONE restroom for some 50 lady workers and No Brakes of
anykind, lunch was a 10min deal if you got it at all. All this for a
10 hour work day 6 days of the week. Where was this? Right down in Los
Angeles after the war. Wonder where they are made now?


Plus I've never been Rich, and now I live on a fixed disabilty income
that's just enough to keep me going.

No kidding about factory work sucking. When I was in high school (1988)
we went on this field trip to a factory or assembly plant for kitchen
appliances (blenders, egg beaters, etc) right here in southern Virginia.
Not a big place at all. I seem to remember being told the pay was good,
but hourly, but you should have seen how fast some of the worker's
fingers moved ... grab part, twist, drop in bin. Must have had some sort
of incentive to keep output high (might have been just keeping the job).

-- ST

Last December, while on a missions trip from Lakewood Church trip in
Houston to El Salvador, one of our assignment days was to climb up a
mountain due north of La Libertad, El Salvador (and it was an incline of
10 to 15 degrees in spots) and we went to the top to a village of
Penecostals. They didn't know we were coming due to an unexpected change
of plans that day. The village was coffee bean growers. We saw burros,
jackasses and donkeys loaded down with 60 # bags of green coffee beans
(yes, I tasted the beans to see - bitter). I don;t rightly recall the
exact they got per each 60# bag, but it was nothing. Say a dollar at
most. ( I think it was $.75 or so but can't remember) That appalled me.
These were people who were grateful to receive a bar of soap from a
Holiday Inn. Or toothpaste that was outdated. Or used clothing with a
hole or two in it. You get the picture. =


J

Frogleg wrote:

Lobby for fair coffee prices, or for laws designed to regulate
child labor in foreign countries.

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:49:15 +0200, "szozu" hoppbunny at hotmail dot com
opined:


"animaux" wrote in message
.. .


Fortunately, many, many people in my age bracket 45-50 are coming into
this age
from growing up in the 60s, where conscience raising was prevalent. There
is no
way I can buy merchandize any more which I KNOW is being made by either
children, or very poor people.

I understand your motives, but If you won't buy things made by very poor
people, how are they supposed to survive? It's usually necessary for the
whole family to work just to keep alive. I don't know if you've ever
travelled in poor remote areas, such as the Andes, but people there who are
lucky enough to have a couple of chickens don't eat the eggs; they sell them
so they can buy things like flour which will provide more bulk and fill
their stomachs.

Childhood can be viewed as a luxury provided by well-to-do societies.
Children have traditionally learned to work alongside their parents as soon
as they were able to help.

In a similar vein, I've heard people say that if they were to move to an
underdeveloped country, they couldn't imagine hiring a maid, since they feel
it would be a demeaning position for the maid; yet in actual fact, they
would be resented by the locals, who would view them as "rich" yet not
contributing to the economy by providing at least one person with a chance
to feed their family.

Lana


I suppose it's a double edge sword. On the one hand, many of the pieceworkers
who make virtually nothing to produce what it would cost a lot of money in the
states to produce, count on those pennies. It's such a complex issue. Then
there's the convenience of Walmart and box stores which are definitely the
largest suppliers of goods made by virtual slave labor.

I have no answer, and you have made many good points. It's not easy to discern,
I will concede to that.

Victoria

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:49:25 -0500, J Kolenovsky
wrote:

We saw burros,
jackasses and donkeys
Was Cereoid picking cactus?