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#46
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"David Hill" wrote in message ...
"...........In the US we produce easily 2 tons of wheat per acre, which will cover the caloric needs of 7........." You might do this on 100 acre fields where the birds are spoiled for choice, but you try a small plot of grain and see just how much the birds have. You may or may not be right. My birds even ignore the winter feeder I put out for them, and 10 lbs of bird food go unfinished (and I live in a place with plentiful wildlife) over the winter. As far as I can tell, at my place the birds will eat seed only under extreme need - they need the bugs more, and can find them even when the ground is frozen (winter berries are also reltively plentiful). The squirrels don't ignore the seeds, though, so I agree that one would have to continuously kill & eat squirrels to save the crop. So, 1/4 acre instead of 1/6? |
#47
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"Tallgrass" wrote in message om... When it came canning time (it) was weeks of very hard hot work to 'put up' hundreds of quarts or pints of fruits and vegitables. This is serious business since we didn't buy any canned goods. And for this, one needs a steady source of cooking flame, a pressure cooker, a source of clean water, a large container capable of holding multiple Mason jars, MULTIPLE Mason jars with matching seals and rings, storage space, and a good place to wash and dry everything in the first place. some things like tomatoes can be canned in a boiling water bath, but most will indeed need a pressure cooker. Or one can blanch most fruits/veggies and freeze them, but then one needs similar equipment as above, plus refrigeration/freezing, and suitable containers. Don't forget what the ambient temperatures are when all these foods ripen and need to be preserved over that hot cookstove, either. Linda H., veteran observer of canning |
#48
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"BernadetteTS" wrote in message ... Ian Stirling wrote in message ... In misc.survivalism Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote: Hi Everybody, I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc. One issue is the question of how much physical space would be needed to grow enough food to completely support myself? Kains wrote "5 Acres and Independence" This is a reprint of a post WW2 get out of the city and back to the land overview. It was also republished as The Mother Earth News issue #2; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3572219710 I seem to recall a 5 acre section of fast growing hybrid poplars would supply an annual supply of firewood on a sustainable basis. It kind of depends on how much you need. Some of these claims are based on very small housing units. I suppose if you had very well insulated and tight housing you might get by as well. You still have to cut and split the wood, which is a major chore in itself, even with power tools like a chainsaw and splitter to help you. Another title I recall is Independence on a 5 acre farm. Like any plan of this type, it all depends on the source of fresh water as the #1 factor. Bernadette |
#49
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"simy1" wrote in message om... "Bob Peterson" wrote in message ... "simy1" wrote in message om... "Bob Peterson" wrote in message ... personally I suspect you can do a lot on 5 good acres with a continuous water source, but I am leery of trusting my life to such a small area. such a small area? In the US we produce easily 2 tons of wheat per acre, which will cover the caloric needs of 7. Given that 90% of the acreage is for feed, we have much less than an acre per person to live on. true, but this is using highly mechanized farming, specialty chemicals, and hybrid seeds. what was being discussed was subsistence farming using all manual labor. a radically different idea. not sure I agree. On 1/6 acre, you can do things manually and organically and still produce 300 kg over one year, and one can certainly use hybrid seeds. As a matter of fact, in the best places we do more like 4 tons per acre, so even if you want to save your own seeds and use older varieties there is room for error. We have been doing tons per acre for a long long time. Also, 300 kg of wheat are, what, 60-70 bucks? I don't see the need to farm five acres in the expectation of losing 97% of the crop. The guy has another job apparently. If one is willing to buy the wheat, why waste time planting a garden? other then for the enjoyment of the fresh veggies. he is in a business where his time spent on such a garden is worth 10 to 100 times the value of the veggies he could grow. |
#50
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
Also try and get a a trio of dairy goats. A Buck and two does.
They will supply you with meat and milk, as well as goat hide which makes excellent leather for jackets and gloves. They drink al most no water and prefer to eat brush and bushes. (Your rose garden is a great feast for them). The will also bleat at anyone coming on the property including you. the Independent JMartin wrote: Try ducks instead of chickens for eggs. They forage more on their own and some breeds (Khaki Campbells) lay just as well as chickens. Geese are excellent foragers, but they don't lay for very long. I've found ducks to be more hardy, less likely to get sick, but messier. Jena |
#51
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
On 8 Dec 2003 14:42:04 GMT, "JMartin"
wrote: . Geese are excellent foragers, but they don't lay for very long. Good watchdogs, too. You don't want to walk into a goose filled farmyard when the family's not home. You stand at the edge of the yard and wait to see if anyone comes out. If not, you go away. The geese like it that way... -- rbc: vixen Fairly harmless Hit reply to email. Though I'm very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli |
#52
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:50:34 -0600, "Bob Peterson"
said: "BernadetteTS" wrote in message ... Ian Stirling wrote in message ... In misc.survivalism Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote: Hi Everybody, I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc. One issue is the question of how much physical space would be needed to grow enough food to completely support myself? Kains wrote "5 Acres and Independence" This is a reprint of a post WW2 get out of the city and back to the land overview. It was also republished as The Mother Earth News issue #2; http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=3572219710 I seem to recall a 5 acre section of fast growing hybrid poplars would supply an annual supply of firewood on a sustainable basis. It kind of depends on how much you need. Some of these claims are based on very small housing units. I suppose if you had very well insulated and tight housing you might get by as well. You still have to cut and split the wood, which is a major chore in itself, even with power tools like a chainsaw and splitter to help you. Hard work is good for the soul. I cut all the wood I need for 1 winter in about two to three weeks Another title I recall is Independence on a 5 acre farm. Like any plan of this type, it all depends on the source of fresh water as the #1 factor. Bernadette |
#53
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"simy1" wrote in message om... "David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ... Excellent idea. Without such you will be subject to seasonal feast/famine even with good preserving techniques. David Since the original poster was posting from subtropical Australia, I doubt it. One just has to have winter vegetables, and things like grains and beans. Not really, he said "I live in New Zealand, with plenty of rain in winter, but also reasonable sunshine in summer." New Zealand is not subtropical. Broadly, the North Island is warm(ish) temperate and the South Island is cool temperate. This may assist: http://www.liddlewonder.co.nz/zones/ But that point aside even if he was in one of the subtropical parts of Australia (the West Island as our cousins over the Tasman like to put it) you cannot grow summer veges there all year around, there is still a glut in late summer/ early autumn. Some sort of green house will extend the season for warm season veges quite a bit and give a wider choice of what to grow. Your point about also using cool season veges is of course correct but, speaking personally, you can only stomach so many meals of beans and brassicas! David |
#54
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
You might try finding some information on Eustace Conway. He spent 20 years
in the Carolina woods living off the land. No, electric, no running water. I know there are books about him, but don't know how explicit they are about how he actually lived. By the way, this wasn't like 100 years ago, it was the 80s and 90s. "Down Under On The Bucket Farm" wrote in message ... Hi Everybody, I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc. One issue is the question of how much physical space would be needed to grow enough food to completely support myself? I am willing to eat anything that is healthy, preferably remaining vegetarian (although I am quite willing to have chickens for eggs, and perhaps a goat for milk.) This would involve one person living alone, in decent physical condition, willing to do hard work and learn whatever is needed. I realise that the yearly food yield will have to be spread out via preserving, canning, etc. My "day job" can be done remotely, via wireless Internet connection, with flexible hours, thus leaving time and opportunity for extensive gardening/farming, etc. I do understand the risk of, for example, having a bad year, bad weather, etc, and so would have money set aside to buy food in that case. But the plan is to avoid that if at all possible. I live in New Zealand, with plenty of rain in winter, but also reasonable sunshine in summer. So... How many acres of flat, farm-able land will I need? Thanks in advance! -V. -- Guide To DIY Living http://www.self-reliance.co.nz (Work in progress) |
#55
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"Steve" wrote in message ...
Thanks Linda, Then what I remembered from 60+ years ago wasn't a flash back to 'Little House'. That really was my Mother sweeting over the wood stove on a hot August day after day after day.. Then going into tears when half the tomato jars burst their top. It is/was a rough life and I'm glad that I can now live in the woods, can't see any utility lines (cause their underground), have running water from a community well and with my social secruity and a small military pension I eat very well without a garden.. Ya see I worked hard all my life for the military and others and earned/paid into a pension plan that allows me to retire in comfort in the woods. Not to say there is anything wrong with hard work, but some of us are more inclined to work in society and in the end have what we want while others want to flee from society and work directly for what they want. In the end, let's hope that we both can eventually relax and enjoy the fruits of our individual labor. Steve Me, I would like to have my cake and eat it too!!!...Work for society some 8-10h per day, then flee to my pieces of pasture and oak-hickory-walnut woods (almost fergot the osage oranges!). While I've put in my share of 43 hour days, I would retire if my age qualified me and I had the resources upon which to retire! Alas...another decade of toil for me. Those canning memories are quite fresh for me, my mother of seventy-something having canned pears this summer. Air conditioning made a WORLD of difference from the days when my grandmother would put up stringbeans - usually coming due in ?June or so (northern hemisphere {{;-q ). She would work in the morning hours, since it was a bit cooler, and we would have picked, and picked over, the beans the night before. Hot, Hot work, sweat poured, frustrations eventually erupted like a volcano, as you have described. And when those jars DO explode....!! You best hope the cover is still on the pressure cooker/pans, or a towel over the batch as it rests on the countertop! It is nice to have the veggies and fruit in the dead of winter, I agree. To have to depend upon this for my survival, though, is more than my already decrepit bones can imagine. Automation and freezing, I hope, will allow me to put in a garden next spring, maintain it, and store some of the produce. If not, more able-bodied sorts will get to help in return for produce! ttfn.... Linda H., third generation gardener |
#56
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
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#57
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"simy1" wrote in message
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message Excellent idea. Without such you will be subject to seasonal feast/famine even with good preserving techniques. David Since the original poster was posting from subtropical Australia, Not so. The poster was from New Zealand. |
#58
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
"Dwight Sipler" wrote in message
(snip)However, there is a book, written probably in the 1940's (judging from the illustrations), called "5 Acres and Independence", author's name escapes me at the moment, but I think it starts with a K. John Seymour who is British wrote a very similar one with an almost identical title. I think it was "Indepencce on (and?) 5 acres". Here is an interesting list of self sufficiency books: http://home.earthlink.net/~tabletoph.../booklist.html although I would recommend that you use books which relate specifically to either NZ or Aus as the British and American books tend to concentrate on some things (eg 'canning') that don't relate well to the Southern Hemisphere. where you need to use local terminology if you are to get what you want. I would strongly recommend that you search out any books by Malcolm Blackie (such as "Successful Small Farming") and someone who I presume is his wife, a Mary Blackie. Both wrote about small farming and eating the products of a small farm in New Zealand so they would know the type of conditions you will experience. Also of use is the "Earth Garden" and "Grass Roots" mags which you should find in a halfway decent library. |
#59
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 18:53:06 -0600, "Bob Peterson"
wrote: (snip) If one is willing to buy the wheat, why waste time planting a garden? other then for the enjoyment of the fresh veggies. he is in a business where his time spent on such a garden is worth 10 to 100 times the value of the veggies he could grow. For me, there are other things to factor in. Yes, I do enjoy gardening, but I do it for other reasons too. There's the practical, hands-on experience which MIGHT be helpful if I ever have to produce my own food. Also, growing your own vegetables(etc.) allows you to grow varieties you will NEVER find in the supermarkets. Commercial farmers grow the crops the stores want to sell. Organic Gardening magazine did an article years ago about the criteria they use to select varieties for growing. Good taste was not even in the top 5 criteria. It IS in MY criteria list, and very near the top. I've noticed that many gardening books ignore potatoes, since they're so cheap to buy in the store it just doesn't pay to grow them at home. Just try finding some of the better varieties for home gardeners and taste them and the store-bought potatoes will never taste the same for you. I've done that with tomatoes. It is easier to fight for our principles than to live up to them.-Alfred Adler |
#60
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Self-Sufficiency Acreage Requirement?
Yes, got the idea from an old copy of TMEN.
Also you might be interested in "No Till" Agriculture for raising grains and other food stuffs to minimize the energy expenditure vs. return on food. We have homesteaded on as little as 3 acres, but currently have around 25. Five would provide for the six of us. Buckwheat, 1/4 acre hand mowed, and winnowed provided enough when stretched. I also collect acorn and make acorn flour, and also cattail flour. My son is almost a pure vegetarian by nature, so meat is of less importance at our house these days. It is more of a side dish. Grains and foraging are more important than vegetables to survival homesteading. Potatoes, peanuts, and Yams are also of high value. IT is all in the calories. Jim Ever actually done this? or is this just an 'educated guess"? |
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