Has anyone ever planted one of these?
-- =

Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

I have no firsthand experience with them. Here's what Dirr has to say:

"Selected species in the Southeast are affectionately termed Mayhaw and are
grown for their reddish (some blue-purple) fruits which are processed into
jellies, et al. The jelly is a rich rose red, jewel-like agar with a slight
tangy taste. As a group, the species have perhaps little to offer the
everyday landscape but are worth considering for fringe areas of the garden.
The taxonomy is extremely muddled and one reference lists over 100, another
lists 35, species for the Southeast. Approximately 1000 species of
CRATAEGUS have been proposed as legitimate. The reasons for lack of
consistency include apomixis, polyploidy, and aneuploidy which results in
unusual chromosome numbers that may be perpetuated via apomixis. The species
occur in many habitats from river bottoms, wet depressions to sandy scrub
oak-pine woods to thin soils of rock outcrops. They are an extremely
important food source for wildlife and particularly birds who disseminate
them widely... Possibly the best review paper is "Mayhaws: Trees of
Pomological and Ornamental Interest," HORTSCIENCE 25:246, 375 (1990)."

Dave

"J Kolenovsky" wrote in message
...
Has anyone ever planted one of these?
--
Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
ô¿ô - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
ô¿ô - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

Thanks, Dave. I did lookups in my library of books and googed and hooed
the web. I probably have a good sense for them. Thank you for letting me
know you have no firsthand knowledge of them.
I know it's Dirr's opinion, " As a group, the species have perhaps
little to offer the everyday landscape but are worth considering for
fringe areas of the garden", but, as a native habitat landscaper, I
differ with that. "They are an extremely important food source for
wildlife and particularly birds who disseminate them widely" is
probably a better description. The jelly, which sells for a premium, is
good tasting. The c. opaca is not as pretty as the c.marshalli.

Living in Texas in ecoregion 2 (gulf prairies and marshes)which has
fringes of ecoregion 1 (pineywoods), I have seen Haws but never paid any
close attention to them. I have identified Parsley Hawthorn (c.
marshalli) on several occasions. Apparently, haws are a good thicket,
understory plant in full/dappled shade. Some haws have thorns and some
don't. Birds sometimes like thorned specimens for cover and protection.

The reason I posted this is I am looking for people who have planted
specimens of this family.
I am grouping Redbay, Sassafras, Carloina Buckthorn, Rusty Blackhaw
Viburnum, Possomhaw Viburnum and Farkleberry near this proposed specimen
planting to enhance my certified wildlife habitat,
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/Dscn0344.jpg to draw more species of
wildlife.

Thanks again for your reply,

J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com
=

David J Bockman wrote:
=

I have no firsthand experience with them. Here's what Dirr has to say:
=

"Selected species in the Southeast are affectionately termed Mayhaw and=
are
grown for their reddish (some blue-purple) fruits which are processed i=
nto
jellies, et al. The jelly is a rich rose red, jewel-like agar with a sl=
ight
tangy taste. As a group, the species have perhaps little to offer the
everyday landscape but are worth considering for fringe areas of the ga=
rden.
The taxonomy is extremely muddled and one reference lists over 100, ano=
ther
lists 35, species for the Southeast. Approximately 1000 species of
CRATAEGUS have been proposed as legitimate. The reasons for lack of
consistency include apomixis, polyploidy, and aneuploidy which results =
in
unusual chromosome numbers that may be perpetuated via apomixis. The sp=
ecies
occur in many habitats from river bottoms, wet depressions to sandy scr=
ub
oak-pine woods to thin soils of rock outcrops. They are an extremely
important food source for wildlife and particularly birds who dissemina=
te
them widely... Possibly the best review paper is "Mayhaws: Trees of
Pomological and Ornamental Interest," HORTSCIENCE 25:246, 375 (1990).=
"
=

Dave
=

"J Kolenovsky" wrote in message
...
Has anyone ever planted one of these?
--
Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

-- =

Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

There may be 5-6 people in the nation who can make a legitimate
claim to be hawthorn experts. I'm not one of them, but I have
grown small ones in small pots. They are _extremely_ difficult
to transplant in a trunk size over an inch in width at the base.

I've grown parsley haw -- or what I've identified as parsley haw,
because it and all the rest of the genus are so variable and
cross breed so easily that you can never be sure. We have
mayhaws down here, but they aren't identified as C. opaca, but,
rather C. aestivalis which is, in many instances, almost
indistinguishable from our native crabapple, except when in
fruit. There's a fellow just down the road from me (I live In
The Country!) who sells "mayhaw honey" but it is -- I think --
really from Malus angustifolia. ;-), which is the only
early-spring-flowering tree (aside from Chickasaw plums - P.
angustifolia (!)) - I saw when I wandered his 300 acres a few
years ago.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - VEGETARIAN:
An Indian word meaning "lousy hunter."



===========
"J Kolenovsky" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Dave. I did lookups in my library of books and googed and
hooed
the web. I probably have a good sense for them. Thank you for
letting me
know you have no firsthand knowledge of them.
I know it's Dirr's opinion, " As a group, the species have
perhaps
little to offer the everyday landscape but are worth considering
for
fringe areas of the garden", but, as a native habitat landscaper,
I
differ with that. "They are an extremely important food source
for
wildlife and particularly birds who disseminate them widely" is
probably a better description. The jelly, which sells for a
premium, is
good tasting. The c. opaca is not as pretty as the c.marshalli.

Living in Texas in ecoregion 2 (gulf prairies and marshes)which
has
fringes of ecoregion 1 (pineywoods), I have seen Haws but never
paid any
close attention to them. I have identified Parsley Hawthorn (c.
marshalli) on several occasions. Apparently, haws are a good
thicket,
understory plant in full/dappled shade. Some haws have thorns and
some
don't. Birds sometimes like thorned specimens for cover and
protection.

The reason I posted this is I am looking for people who have
planted
specimens of this family.
I am grouping Redbay, Sassafras, Carloina Buckthorn, Rusty
Blackhaw
Viburnum, Possomhaw Viburnum and Farkleberry near this proposed
specimen
planting to enhance my certified wildlife habitat,
http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/Dscn0344.jpg to draw more species
of
wildlife.

Thanks again for your reply,

J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com

David J Bockman wrote:

I have no firsthand experience with them. Here's what Dirr has
to say:

"Selected species in the Southeast are affectionately termed
Mayhaw and are
grown for their reddish (some blue-purple) fruits which are
processed into
jellies, et al. The jelly is a rich rose red, jewel-like agar
with a slight
tangy taste. As a group, the species have perhaps little to
offer the
everyday landscape but are worth considering for fringe areas
of the garden.
The taxonomy is extremely muddled and one reference lists over
100, another
lists 35, species for the Southeast. Approximately 1000
species of
CRATAEGUS have been proposed as legitimate. The reasons for
lack of
consistency include apomixis, polyploidy, and aneuploidy which
results in
unusual chromosome numbers that may be perpetuated via
apomixis. The species
occur in many habitats from river bottoms, wet depressions to
sandy scrub
oak-pine woods to thin soils of rock outcrops. They are an
extremely
important food source for wildlife and particularly birds who
disseminate
them widely... Possibly the best review paper is "Mayhaws:
Trees of
Pomological and Ornamental Interest," HORTSCIENCE 25:246, 375
(1990)."

Dave

"J Kolenovsky" wrote in message
...
Has anyone ever planted one of these?
--
Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
ô¿ô - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
ô¿ô - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

--
Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
ô¿ô - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
ô¿ô - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

Thanks, Jim. I have a 5 gallon that is about an inch wide. There a lot
of variations and some of the forms look like crabapples. Chickasaw and
Flatwoods Plum grow in our eco-region and I like them. Small understory
trees are really nice. I've grown fond of them and have planted many for
clients this year. I've planted 5 Ilex decidua (Possomhaw),
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/o.../Ilexdecidu24=
68.jpg,
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/o...lexdecidua.htm
this year for clients and one for myself. I've tried Blanco Crabapple
(Rosaceae Malus ioensis var. texana) but its for the hill country around
Austin, TX. It doesn't like our heavy clay.

I can see
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/o...angustifolia.=
htm
being confused with some of the haws.

Besides Redbay (Persea borbonia), Sassafras (Sassafras albidum),
Carolina Buckthorn (Rhamnus caroliniana), Rusty Blackhaw Viburnum
(Viburnum rufidulum), Possomhaw Viburnum (Viburnum nudum) and
Farkleberry (Vaccinium arboreum ), I have planted a Dahoon Holly (ilex
cassine), Texas Kidneywood (Eysenhardtia texana), Desert Willow
(Chilopsssis linearis), Coralberry (Symphoricarpos orbiculatus),
Barbados Cherry (Malpighia glabra), Retama (Parkinsonia aculeata), Texas
Mountain Laurel (Sophora secundiflora), Texas Buckeye (Aesculus glabra
var. arguta) and Mexican Plum (Prunus mexicana). These can be found at
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/o...ndexcommon.htm
and
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/o...indexcommon.h=
tm.
Great natives for our area. My landscape will change over the coming
years.

I drove from Panama City to Tallahassee one year while on vacation.
Tallahassee was very nice. I liked the slight rolling hills. The capitol
area was pretty.

J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com

Jim Lewis wrote:
=

There may be 5-6 people in the nation who can make a legitimate
claim to be hawthorn experts. I'm not one of them, but I have
grown small ones in small pots. They are _extremely_ difficult
to transplant in a trunk size over an inch in width at the base.
=

I've grown parsley haw -- or what I've identified as parsley haw,
because it and all the rest of the genus are so variable and
cross breed so easily that you can never be sure. We have
mayhaws down here, but they aren't identified as C. opaca, but,
rather C. aestivalis which is, in many instances, almost
indistinguishable from our native crabapple, except when in
fruit. There's a fellow just down the road from me (I live In
The Country!) who sells "mayhaw honey" but it is -- I think --
really from Malus angustifolia. ;-), which is the only
early-spring-flowering tree (aside from Chickasaw plums - P.
angustifolia (!)) - I saw when I wandered his 300 acres a few
years ago.
=

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - VEGETARIAN:
An Indian word meaning "lousy hunter."
-- =

Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

Dang it, I forgot Mexican Buckeye (Ungnadia speciosa).

J

Jim Lewis wrote:
=

There may be 5-6 people in the nation who can make a legitimate
claim to be hawthorn experts. I'm not one of them, but I have
grown small ones in small pots. They are _extremely_ difficult
to transplant in a trunk size over an inch in width at the base.
=

I've grown parsley haw -- or what I've identified as parsley haw,
because it and all the rest of the genus are so variable and
cross breed so easily that you can never be sure. We have
mayhaws down here, but they aren't identified as C. opaca, but,
rather C. aestivalis which is, in many instances, almost
indistinguishable from our native crabapple, except when in
fruit. There's a fellow just down the road from me (I live In
The Country!) who sells "mayhaw honey" but it is -- I think --
really from Malus angustifolia. ;-), which is the only
early-spring-flowering tree (aside from Chickasaw plums - P.
angustifolia (!)) - I saw when I wandered his 300 acres a few
years ago.
=

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - VEGETARIAN:
An Indian word meaning "lousy hunter."
-- =

Celestial Habitats by J. Kolenovsky
2003 Honorable Mention Award, Keep Houston Beautiful
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

"J Kolenovsky" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Jim. I have a 5 gallon that is about an inch wide.

There are no transplant problems from an established potted plant
to the ground. I was referring to digging largish ones up and
then replanting. THAT is difficult.


There a lot of variations and some of the forms look like
crabapples. Chickasaw and
Flatwoods Plum grow in our eco-region and I like them. Small
understory
trees are really nice. I've grown fond of them and have planted
many for
clients this year.

Be sure to tell them that the BEST plum jelly is made from
Chicasaw plum, so they need to plant several (though they'll form
thickets, anyway, within a few years if the landowner isn't
careful). ;-)

I've planted 5 Ilex decidua (Possomhaw),
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/o...ecidu2468.jpg,
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/o...lexdecidua.htm
this year for clients and one for myself.

I prefer I. vomitoria for landscape use. I decidua is (IMHO) too
coarse in its leafless state to be attractive in winter.

I've tried Blanco Crabapple
(Rosaceae Malus ioensis var. texana) but its for the hill country
around
Austin, TX. It doesn't like our heavy clay.

snip

Besides Redbay (Persea borbonia), Sassafras (Sassafras albidum),
Carolina Buckthorn (Rhamnus caroliniana), Rusty Blackhaw Viburnum
(Viburnum rufidulum), Possomhaw Viburnum (Viburnum nudum) and
Farkleberry (Vaccinium arboreum ),

AKA "sparkleberry" in THIS area of the country. V. arboreum is
extremely common in the understory of the woods around my house.
So far, the largest I've found has a trunk diameter at the base
of nealry 10 inches. It is gorgeous in mid spring. Sassafrass'
vitrue comes only in the fall -- unless you like the tea. ;-)


snip

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)