Should tomatoes be planted in full sun or be given some shade.

I have tried four types of tomato plants over the last few months
and the first two died. The second ones I think I over-did them
with miracle-gro and they bloomed with great leaves, then some
cabbage worms got into them and they started wilting.

Those cabbage worms looked pretty neat and the lizards don't
seem to like them... but I can not currently confirm that. I watched
lizards eat ants, small ground worms and flies and one lizard got
close to a cabbage worm but then hesitated for a couple minutes
before backing away. I got tired of watching the lizard and started
to think that they might not think the cabbage worms are palatable,
and when I move the lizard took off. I left the worm on the ground
next to a weed tree.

Funny thing about the tomato plants, one started growing in a
banana pepper pot. The banana pepper pot was near a tomato
plant one week but couldn't take the sunlight, so I guess the
tomato plant dropped something into the banana pepper pot.
Is that possible ? I thought it was a pepper plant that was
growing originally but it developed the hairy tomato stem, and
the leaves definitely look like tomato leaves.

I've placed some corn outside as well and the first seed I
planted is now over six feet tall. It looks like the male stalk,
and I noticed that some seeds develop into multiple stalks.

I'm also wondering about the spacing of corn seeds when planted.
And if the corn can be used to provide shade for various other
plants. Also I've been reading that clovers make good green
manure cover crops for corn, and am wondering if anyone has
any experience with green manure cover crops or any suggestions.

Thanks.

--
Jim Carlock
http://www.microcosmotalk.com/
Post replies to the newsgroup.

Tomatoes want sun, and lots of it. But, the actual fruit does better when
it's shaded by leaves. They tend to crack less this way. So, the best way to
plant them is to cage them. Some fruit will grow outside the cage, but
plenty will develop inside. Store-bought cages are useless. Make your own
from fence wire and metal fence stakes.

Do yourself a BIG favor: Go to online bookstore www.powells.com and order a
used copy of "Crockett's Victory Garden". It was written about 25 years ago,
but is still one of the best basic gardening books in existence. His advice
on corn is perfect. He leaned much too heavily on chemicals, though. Ignore
that part of Jim Crockett's suggestions.


"Jim Carlock" wrote in message
.. .
Should tomatoes be planted in full sun or be given some shade.

I have tried four types of tomato plants over the last few months
and the first two died. The second ones I think I over-did them
with miracle-gro and they bloomed with great leaves, then some
cabbage worms got into them and they started wilting.

Those cabbage worms looked pretty neat and the lizards don't
seem to like them... but I can not currently confirm that. I watched
lizards eat ants, small ground worms and flies and one lizard got
close to a cabbage worm but then hesitated for a couple minutes
before backing away. I got tired of watching the lizard and started
to think that they might not think the cabbage worms are palatable,
and when I move the lizard took off. I left the worm on the ground
next to a weed tree.

Funny thing about the tomato plants, one started growing in a
banana pepper pot. The banana pepper pot was near a tomato
plant one week but couldn't take the sunlight, so I guess the
tomato plant dropped something into the banana pepper pot.
Is that possible ? I thought it was a pepper plant that was
growing originally but it developed the hairy tomato stem, and
the leaves definitely look like tomato leaves.

I've placed some corn outside as well and the first seed I
planted is now over six feet tall. It looks like the male stalk,
and I noticed that some seeds develop into multiple stalks.

I'm also wondering about the spacing of corn seeds when planted.
And if the corn can be used to provide shade for various other
plants. Also I've been reading that clovers make good green
manure cover crops for corn, and am wondering if anyone has
any experience with green manure cover crops or any suggestions.

Thanks.

--
Jim Carlock
http://www.microcosmotalk.com/
Post replies to the newsgroup.

I've been making soil by using 1/5 sphagnum peat, 1/5 sand, 1/5
cow manure derivative, 1/5 organic humus derivative and 1/5
perlite. I've been told that seaweed is good to use in place of
some of one or two of the above.

I'm currently mixing some beans and peas in between some of the
corn stalks, and I'm worried about the heat that is starting to
develop. The nights are around 70º F, the days between 90º and
100º F. I see the way the heat is affecting the tomato plants and
pepper plants. The pepper plants die very easily when they lose
their shading cover tomatoes. So I've started placing some basil
around the area to provide cover as well as deter some bugs. I
don't know currently if basil will be able to withstand the heat
though. But the corn, is doing very well as long as there's not
another corn stalk placed to close and the watering is kept up
on a daily basis.

The peas are placed in a mostly shaded area, as the packaging
indicates that they are susceptible to heat and don't like too
much heat.

And I've read that legumes and all plants in general require NPK
in a 1-2-1 ratio. So I'm thinking that I'll probably need to buy
some bonemeal but is that the best way to go ?

The beans and peas are to be used as Nitrogen fixing, but that
leaves me to wonder about the current soil situation and the
amount of phosphorous in the soil (sand). It would be really
convenient if there was a "tea" or some sort of solution that
could be applied on a daily basis.

How would one determine the contents (NPK) of the current
soil (sand in my case)? I think I've seen some kind of gizmo
at Home Depot that determines the acidity of the soil, and it
was advertized to do something else as well, but I'll have to
take a run back there to see what it was.

Thanks, Doug Kanter, for your response about the Tomatoes.
Once my sister returns my car to me... :-) I'm wondering if there
is an online version of that book, "Crockett's Victory Garden",
anywhere ? Would be more useful in a digital format for me,
than a paperback or hardcover version.

--
Jim
Post replies to the newsgroup.

Beans like sun. Just give them mulch, and plenty of water when it's really
hot. For the mulch, take a ride in the country and buy a couple of bales of
straw. Not hay. Straw. Pull it off the bale by hand and spread it loosely as
needed. For the peas, you've got the right idea, as far as shading them. My
late crop always crashes into those unpredictable early heat waves. Another
thought: I'm sure you've seen the lightweight black plastic mesh sold in
garden centers, intended for climbing plants, and keeping birds out of the
berries. Buy some wooden stakes and attach that black mesh like a flat roof
over the plants that can't stand lots of heat. Now, buy some cheesecloth at
a fabric store and clothespin it to the black mesh. The whole thing's
lightweight. Just be sure to use lots of clothespins so the cheesecloth
doesn't blow away. Plastic pins are better for this than wood.

Fertilizer: Just go buy some basic 5-10-5 granular stuff. It's the easiest
thing to find. For plants that need 1-2-1, use less fertilizer. Keep it
simple. Meanwhile, see if you can get a serious compost bin into operation.
It'll lessen the need for other additions.

The book: I'm not aware of any online addition. Why would that be more
useful than the paperback????? Incidentally, the book is organized
perfectly. Each chapter represents a month of the year, and within each
chapter, the plants are alphabetical. So, each chapter corresponds to what
you should be doing that month. James Crockett gardened in Boston, so you
may have to adjust slightly for your climate. Just go buy the book, will ya?
Trust me.




"Jim Carlock" wrote in message
. ..
I've been making soil by using 1/5 sphagnum peat, 1/5 sand, 1/5
cow manure derivative, 1/5 organic humus derivative and 1/5
perlite. I've been told that seaweed is good to use in place of
some of one or two of the above.

I'm currently mixing some beans and peas in between some of the
corn stalks, and I'm worried about the heat that is starting to
develop. The nights are around 70º F, the days between 90º and
100º F. I see the way the heat is affecting the tomato plants and
pepper plants. The pepper plants die very easily when they lose
their shading cover tomatoes. So I've started placing some basil
around the area to provide cover as well as deter some bugs. I
don't know currently if basil will be able to withstand the heat
though. But the corn, is doing very well as long as there's not
another corn stalk placed to close and the watering is kept up
on a daily basis.

The peas are placed in a mostly shaded area, as the packaging
indicates that they are susceptible to heat and don't like too
much heat.

And I've read that legumes and all plants in general require NPK
in a 1-2-1 ratio. So I'm thinking that I'll probably need to buy
some bonemeal but is that the best way to go ?

The beans and peas are to be used as Nitrogen fixing, but that
leaves me to wonder about the current soil situation and the
amount of phosphorous in the soil (sand). It would be really
convenient if there was a "tea" or some sort of solution that
could be applied on a daily basis.

How would one determine the contents (NPK) of the current
soil (sand in my case)? I think I've seen some kind of gizmo
at Home Depot that determines the acidity of the soil, and it
was advertized to do something else as well, but I'll have to
take a run back there to see what it was.

Thanks, Doug Kanter, for your response about the Tomatoes.
Once my sister returns my car to me... :-) I'm wondering if there
is an online version of that book, "Crockett's Victory Garden",
anywhere ? Would be more useful in a digital format for me,
than a paperback or hardcover version.

--
Jim
Post replies to the newsgroup.

Thanks Doug,

I sent you an email earlier. I'm not sure if you received. Knowing
how hotmail can be configured, I'm thinking I might need to be
put on your list or somesuch. The email was in regards to the
www.powells.com website.

I have a squash plant that I seeded about a month ago in a pot.
The leaves are starting to wilt. There's a pic at:

http://www.microcosmotalk.com/images/garden/

It seemed to need more water. I'm wondering though how long
it can last in a pot. It already looks like it has overgrown the pot.

Also, when I started planting the corn I was under the impression
that there were female seeds and male seeds. But I have one
corn plant by itself that has three or more stalks growing out of
it and it looks like one stalk can make it's own corn grow. :-)
In another area, I have three corn stalks growing, those are partly
shaded and one stalk is only one stalk but is over 6 feet talk. All
three stalks seem to be doing very well.

Is that true ? And if that is true, do most plants grow their own
male and female stalks ? And if that is true for most plants,
then perhaps I should be asking, which plants have male and
female seeds ?

--
Jim
Post replies to the newsgroup.

"Jim Carlock" wrote in message
. ..

Thanks Doug,

I sent you an email earlier. I'm not sure if you received. Knowing
how hotmail can be configured, I'm thinking I might need to be
put on your list or somesuch. The email was in regards to the
www.powells.com website.

Got your message and replied to it via email. I use hotmail only for
newsgroups, and check it every few hours on weekdays. Weekends....rarely.


I have a squash plant that I seeded about a month ago in a pot.
The leaves are starting to wilt. There's a pic at:

http://www.microcosmotalk.com/images/garden/

It seemed to need more water. I'm wondering though how long
it can last in a pot. It already looks like it has overgrown the pot.

To determine the problem, get it out of the sun and keep it constantly moist
for one day. Not sitting in a tray of water, but don't let it dry out. If it
doesn't perk up, carefully inspect the stem down near the soil line. If you
find a hole chewed in the main stem (which affects all future stalks), shoot
the plant and give it a nice burial (in the garbage, not your compost pile).
You have a squash borer. In his book, Crockett said he was sometimes able to
pick out the creature with a knife, but usually, it's hopeless. Don't panic
and start spraying all sorts of crap on the plant. Go get some seeds and
plant a few more. They grow very quickly, which is why squash is one of the
top choices when showing impatient little kids how to grow things. The best
way to insure against the borer is just to grow extra plants and don't put
them all in the same place. There've been years when I have 2 adjacent
plants murdered, but a 3rd one 50 feet away was untouched.

Another thing: I see you're using a clay pot. They look good, but they can
be tricky for plants grown in the sun. The clay acts like a wick, drawing
moisture out of the soil, so it dries out more quickly. And, many plants
fail completely if their roots are not kept cooler than the plant at ground
level. For plants which require sun, like squash, you're between a rock and
a hard place. It has to be in the sun, but it may dry out while you're at
work. Suggestions:

1) Switch to a plastic pot.
2) Use a much larger pot, even if the plant looks silly until it reaches
full size. More soil will hold moisture longer.
3) Fill all pots to within an inch of the top. Yours looks like you didn't
do that.
4) Try and shade the pot, but not the plant, if the plant needs sun. Do this
by grouping pots together. Once the plant is big enough, it may shade the
pot. Squash probably won't when it's full-sized. The stalks are so long that
the leaves will be outside of the diameter of the pot.
5) After watering, soak the outside of the clay pot thoroughly.
6) Add some shredded cedar mulch (not chunks).

Squash (and melons & cucumbers) like rich soil. Yours looks like soilless
potting mix. Pick up a bag of composted cow manure and sprinkle some one
top. And, keep some 10-10-10 granular fertilizer handy. Comes in 25 or 50 lb
bags, usually. It should last for years unless you're overdoing it.



Also, when I started planting the corn I was under the impression
that there were female seeds and male seeds. But I have one
corn plant by itself that has three or more stalks growing out of
it and it looks like one stalk can make it's own corn grow. :-)
In another area, I have three corn stalks growing, those are partly
shaded and one stalk is only one stalk but is over 6 feet talk. All
three stalks seem to be doing very well.

Is that true ? And if that is true, do most plants grow their own
male and female stalks ? And if that is true for most plants,
then perhaps I should be asking, which plants have male and
female seeds ?

No male or female seeds. Corn plants make tassles at the top - they look
sort of like the artists' depictions of wheat on cereal boxes. Pollen comes
from the tassles and drops straight down onto the corn silks - the stringy
things you remove along with the husks when you get ready to cook corn. Each
silk leads to a kernel of corn. If there's insufficient fertilization, you
get corn with less kernels. And, if it's very rainy when the pollen is being
produced, it'll wash away some of the pollen, which is why you sometimes get
corn with lots of empty spots where kernels should be.

The wind helps get the pollen loose from the tassles, and onto not only the
plant from which the pollen came, but to adjacent plants as well. This is
why home gardeners need to plant differently than farmers. You shouldn't
plant a straight row of corn unless you can grow SEVERAL rows. For home
growing, the best way is to plant in "hills" - small circular groups of 5-6
plants. Better fertilization that way.

Here's a resource that'll keep you busy for a while:
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/menugard.html