Greetings all!

My wife and I live in Southern California, USA; our house is on top of
a hill with NO shade from any trees; we have huge sliding glass doors
and/or windows on the east, south, and west sides of our house. So,
long story short, I believe we have TONS of ambient light. Still,
some of my indoor plants (mostly concerned about large dracenae
marginata) seem to want more direct light than I can possibly give
them; they may grow fine for a few years, but at some point, they
start to look less than robust. Don't get me wrong -- I am NOT one of
these people who tries to grow full-sun plants in full shade, and then
complains when the plant performs poorly.

One option of course is to move the ailing plants to someplace in the
house where they get more direct light. I have done that with some,
but some plants really cannot go anywhere other than where they are.
I am thinking in particular of a huge pot of dracenae marginata (some
stalks of which are over 8 ft. tall) -- this pot (a) won't fit
anywhere else, and (b) provides an important decorative focal point
exactly where it is. [Relatedly: I am a little concerned about the
ambient light fading our couch, so I could move the couch to a closet,
but then I wouldn't have anything to sit on when I watch TV; sometimes
the functional costs of moving something outweigh the benefits].

So...apart from moving plants from their current locations...is there
any way to compensate for the possibility that some plants aren't
getting quite as much direct sun as they'd like? I have tried some
"grow lights" before, and observed no significant effect, but I
confess I have only used the 60 watt, bluish, "plant gro 'n' show"
bulbs one can purchase cheaply at Walmart and hardware stores.
Frankly, I never expected those to do much anyway, and consequently
never really got into an appropriate lighting regimen. Are there any
"grow lights" that actually work? If so, I am willing to embrace this
option wholeheartedly this time. Are there some online sites I should
visit to research this issue further, or is the whole notion of "grow
light" effectiveness kind of a myth? What kind of lighting regimen
should one employ with these kinds of lights (if indeed they have
merit at all)?

Also: While I am not suggesting one can easily replace sunlight with
chemicals, is there anything one can do with fertilizers to help a
plant which may be getting less direct sun than it optimally requires?
If I lived in a cave, my doctor might say, "You aren't getting enough
sun, so you should take a vitamin D supplement;" are there any
parallels for plants?

Thanks in advance for any guidance in this matter!

Chuck

"Dolchas" wrote in message
om...
Greetings all!

My wife and I live in Southern California, USA; our house is on top of
a hill with NO shade from any trees; we have huge sliding glass doors
and/or windows on the east, south, and west sides of our house. So,
long story short, I believe we have TONS of ambient light. Still,
some of my indoor plants (mostly concerned about large dracenae
marginata) seem to want more direct light than I can possibly give
them; they may grow fine for a few years, but at some point, they
start to look less than robust. Don't get me wrong -- I am NOT one of
these people who tries to grow full-sun plants in full shade, and then
complains when the plant performs poorly.

One option of course is to move the ailing plants to someplace in the
house where they get more direct light. I have done that with some,
but some plants really cannot go anywhere other than where they are.
I am thinking in particular of a huge pot of dracenae marginata (some
stalks of which are over 8 ft. tall) -- this pot (a) won't fit
anywhere else, and (b) provides an important decorative focal point
exactly where it is. [Relatedly: I am a little concerned about the
ambient light fading our couch, so I could move the couch to a closet,
but then I wouldn't have anything to sit on when I watch TV; sometimes
the functional costs of moving something outweigh the benefits].

So...apart from moving plants from their current locations...is there
any way to compensate for the possibility that some plants aren't
getting quite as much direct sun as they'd like? I have tried some
"grow lights" before, and observed no significant effect, but I
confess I have only used the 60 watt, bluish, "plant gro 'n' show"
bulbs one can purchase cheaply at Walmart and hardware stores.
Frankly, I never expected those to do much anyway, and consequently
never really got into an appropriate lighting regimen. Are there any
"grow lights" that actually work? If so, I am willing to embrace this
option wholeheartedly this time. Are there some online sites I should
visit to research this issue further, or is the whole notion of "grow
light" effectiveness kind of a myth? What kind of lighting regimen
should one employ with these kinds of lights (if indeed they have
merit at all)?

Also: While I am not suggesting one can easily replace sunlight with
chemicals, is there anything one can do with fertilizers to help a
plant which may be getting less direct sun than it optimally requires?
If I lived in a cave, my doctor might say, "You aren't getting enough
sun, so you should take a vitamin D supplement;" are there any
parallels for plants?

Thanks in advance for any guidance in this matter!

Chuck

It may not be the quantity or quality of the light that is causing the
problem. Dracaena marginata in particular is not very light demanding and
tolerates low levels of indirect light extremely well. I'd look first to
some other cultural issues - watering schedule, periodic fertilization,
repotting as necessary, or the possibility of some sort of pest problem.
Dracaenas tend to attract things like scale and mealy bugs which can quickly
impact the appearance of an otherwise healthy plant.

pam - gardengal

Dolchas wrote:
So...apart from moving plants from their current locations...is there
any way to compensate for the possibility that some plants aren't
getting quite as much direct sun as they'd like? I have tried some
"grow lights" before, and observed no significant effect, but I
confess I have only used the 60 watt, bluish, "plant gro 'n' show"
bulbs one can purchase cheaply at Walmart and hardware stores.
Frankly, I never expected those to do much anyway, and consequently
never really got into an appropriate lighting regimen. Are there any
"grow lights" that actually work? If so, I am willing to embrace this
option wholeheartedly this time. Are there some online sites I should
visit to research this issue further, or is the whole notion of "grow
light" effectiveness kind of a myth? What kind of lighting regimen
should one employ with these kinds of lights (if indeed they have
merit at all)?


IIRC, those "gro-n-show" lamps are blue-tinted incandescent light bulbs.
That's about the worst thing you could use. Something that works well
is a four foot fluorescent fixture with an electronic ballast and modern
F32T8 triphosphor lamps. They're not nearly as expensive as you'd
expect, but you really need to position the lamps as close as possible
to the plants.

Even more efficient would be a high pressure sodium (HPS) flood light.
Depending on the wattage and the plants' light requirement, this could
be set up as far as 6 feet away from the plants. HPS lamps are an ugly
pinkish-gold color, and the light is very unflattering. I don't have
any experience with "deluxe" HPS lamps. They give much better color
rendering, so they might be a good option.

The other option is metal halide (MH) lighting. They are not quite as
efficient as HPS, and you have to change the bulbs a lot more often, but
they put out an attractive white light.

I suspect none of these will really fit your plan to provide
supplemental lighting and have it look nice.

Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Dolchas wrote:
So...apart from moving plants from their current locations...is there
any way to compensate for the possibility that some plants aren't
getting quite as much direct sun as they'd like? I have tried some
"grow lights" before, and observed no significant effect, but I
confess I have only used the 60 watt, bluish, "plant gro 'n' show"
bulbs one can purchase cheaply at Walmart and hardware stores.
Frankly, I never expected those to do much anyway, and consequently
never really got into an appropriate lighting regimen. Are there any
"grow lights" that actually work? If so, I am willing to embrace this
option wholeheartedly this time. Are there some online sites I should
visit to research this issue further, or is the whole notion of "grow
light" effectiveness kind of a myth? What kind of lighting regimen
should one employ with these kinds of lights (if indeed they have
merit at all)?


IIRC, those "gro-n-show" lamps are blue-tinted incandescent light bulbs.
That's about the worst thing you could use. Something that works well
is a four foot fluorescent fixture with an electronic ballast and modern
F32T8 triphosphor lamps. They're not nearly as expensive as you'd
expect, but you really need to position the lamps as close as possible
to the plants.

Even more efficient would be a high pressure sodium (HPS) flood light.
Depending on the wattage and the plants' light requirement, this could
be set up as far as 6 feet away from the plants. HPS lamps are an ugly
pinkish-gold color, and the light is very unflattering. I don't have
any experience with "deluxe" HPS lamps. They give much better color
rendering, so they might be a good option.

The other option is metal halide (MH) lighting. They are not quite as
efficient as HPS, and you have to change the bulbs a lot more often, but
they put out an attractive white light.

I suspect none of these will really fit your plan to provide
supplemental lighting and have it look nice.


Look out! I posted the same thing a few weeks back and someone ripped me a
new one for posting "misinformation."

Vox Humana wrote:
Look out! I posted the same thing a few weeks back and someone ripped me a
new one for posting "misinformation."



WTF are you whinging about?
I don't recall you posting anything recently about HID lighting or high
efficieny fluorescents, but I guess you may have posted it during that
week or two while you were in my killfile.

Regards,
Bob

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:40:48 -0500, zxcvbob
wrote:

WTF are you whinging about?

She's talkin about your misinformation IDJET!

zxcvbob wrote:
Vox Humana wrote:

Look out! I posted the same thing a few weeks back and someone ripped
me a new one for posting "misinformation."



WTF are you whinging about?
I don't recall you posting anything recently about HID lighting or high
efficieny fluorescents, but I guess you may have posted it during that
week or two while you were in my killfile.

Regards,
Bob


Vox,
After reading the email you sent me in reply to this, it is obvious that
I *totally* misread your r.g. post. I thought you were being sarcastic
and mocking me about something (which made no sense and had me kind of
confused.) That got me ****ed because I thought you had some kind of
grudge against me.

Please accept my apology. I was gonna email you, but figured a public
apology was in order.

Best regards,
Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
zxcvbob wrote:
Vox Humana wrote:

Look out! I posted the same thing a few weeks back and someone ripped
me a new one for posting "misinformation."



WTF are you whinging about?
I don't recall you posting anything recently about HID lighting or high
efficieny fluorescents, but I guess you may have posted it during that
week or two while you were in my killfile.

Regards,
Bob


Vox,
After reading the email you sent me in reply to this, it is obvious that
I *totally* misread your r.g. post. I thought you were being sarcastic
and mocking me about something (which made no sense and had me kind of
confused.) That got me ****ed because I thought you had some kind of
grudge against me.

Please accept my apology. I was gonna email you, but figured a public
apology was in order.


Thanks Bob. I guess that one of the limitation of written communications is
that we don't always read things in the spirit that they were written. I've
certainly misinterpreted messages myself. Most people wouldn't have posted
a public apology, and I do appreciate that. I suspect that we are in
agreement more often than not, and I hope that when we disagree that we can
do so without it becoming personal. I enjoy reading your posts.

Greetings again!

Actually, I am not too concerned about how the supplemental lighting
would look. I might turn it on when I went to bed, or I might just
leave it on while I am at work or something. If this supplemental
lighting had to pretty much be on most of all daylight hours to be
effective, then I suppose the look of this lighting would be a bigger
problem for me.

Chuck


I suspect none of these will really fit your plan to provide
supplemental lighting and have it look nice.

Bob

Okay, let me try this again. From the lighting situation you describe,
there is MORE than sufficient light for the dracaena. It does NOT require
high light levels and will grow very well in rather low levels of indirect
light. The problems you are having with this plant are more likely due to
other factors. I don't know what other "houseplants" you might be trying to
grow, but few of the legal kind will require the need for supplemental
halide or gro-lites IF your exposure is as you describe it.

pam - gardengal


"Dolchas" wrote in message
om...
Greetings again!

Actually, I am not too concerned about how the supplemental lighting
would look. I might turn it on when I went to bed, or I might just
leave it on while I am at work or something. If this supplemental
lighting had to pretty much be on most of all daylight hours to be
effective, then I suppose the look of this lighting would be a bigger
problem for me.

Chuck


I suspect none of these will really fit your plan to provide
supplemental lighting and have it look nice.

Bob