Piscanthropus Profundus wrote:
Its been far too long since I've read/posted here. A sudden and
drastic change in career has kept me away from my computer. sigh

On to my question...

I've purchased a bit of property that I'm looking to build a new
home on in a few years. It's fairly heavy clay and quite wet in
the spring and autumn. I'm looking for plants that both tolerate
wet feet and will also absorb a fair amount of water. I'm in zone
5 - Niagara.

Well you have several years to amend the soil and improve the drainage.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

Piscanthropus Profundus wrote:
Its been far too long since I've read/posted here. A sudden and
drastic
change in career has kept me away from my computer. sigh

On to my question...

I've purchased a bit of property that I'm looking to build a new home
on in
a few years. It's fairly heavy clay and quite wet in the spring and
autumn.
I'm looking for plants that both tolerate wet feet and will also
absorb a
fair amount of water. I'm in zone 5 - Niagara.

I would consider intentionally planting taprooted weeds for a few
years. And I mean in great quantity (it may take a bit of seed
collecting, but all of them are very prolific), ten per square foot or
so. Mow them once a year in the fall to prevent woody growth. Each
taproot will become a drainage channel once the plant dies, and for a
mature plant the root will go down four to six feet.
At the same time the organic content of the soil is improved to great
depth.

Dock, burdock, chicory and dandelion are the best. Only dock really
prefers wet soil but, being weeds, they are very adaptable. Other
taprooted plants become too woody to revert easily to a lawn.
Incidentally, I have done it and it works. Right now you can find
burdock burrs in weedlots, dock seeds (available in july) disappear
fast because they are a major winter staple for a variety of critters.
Chicory seeds become available around august. If the neighbors complain
you will be limited to chicory and dandelion,which are less
conspicuously weeds, and which is what I used.

Well, Duh, people, you keep overlooking the Japanese Iris! Just about
perfect for boggy areas. Look it up: Iris ensata.

Hemmaholic

Gunnera.

But I forget what zone these plants were wanted for - it might be too tender
for the colder ones.

Bill Spohn wrote:
Gunnera.

But I forget what zone these plants were wanted for - it might be
too tender for the colder ones.


Pretty much zones 7 to 10.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

With no disrespect to the other posters, what I see being suggested are some invasive plants that many would consider weeds. I would rather know what you want to accomplish with the suggested plant material. Do you want plants that will thrive under the current growing conditions until you build and then remove them, do you want plants that will enrich the soil until you build or do you just want a list for planting after you build?

I think it's important to address the wet conditions, especially if you are going to build. Take a look at this site for some helpful info on drainage.
http://www.cuyahogaswcd.org/yard_drainage.htm

If you want to cover the soil with plants that can be turned or mowed for organic matter to improve the soil, consider planting natives. They will be less trouble for you now and later when you might want to change things. The best way to improve the soil would be to add organic matter. You don't say how large the property is, but a covering of leaves, shredded newspaper, lawn clippings, etc would be helpful.

I suppose more information would be helpful. If you just want a list of plants for your garden after you build, that would be easy to do. We would need the sun conditions as well.

Newt

In article , Newt
wrote:

Travis Wrote:
Piscanthropus Profundus wrote:-

I've purchased a bit of property that I'm looking to build a new home
on in a few years. It's fairly heavy clay and quite wet in the spring
and autumn. I'm looking for plants that both tolerate wet feet and will
also absorb a fair amount of water. I'm in zone
5 - Niagara.-

Well, Duh, people, you keep overlooking the Japanese Iris! Just about
perfect for boggy areas. Look it up: Iris ensata.

Hemmaholic


I would consider intentionally planting taprooted weeds for a few
years. And I mean in great quantity (it may take a bit of seed
collecting, but all of them are very prolific), ten per square foot or
so. Mow them once a year in the fall to prevent woody growth. Each
taproot will become a drainage channel once the plant dies, and for a
mature plant the root will go down four to six feet.
At the same time the organic content of the soil is improved to great
depth.

Dock, burdock, chicory and dandelion are the best. Only dock really
prefers wet soil but, being weeds, they are very adaptable. Other
taprooted plants become too woody to revert easily to a lawn.
Incidentally, I have done it and it works. Right now you can find
burdock burrs in weedlots, dock seeds (available in july) disappear
fast because they are a major winter staple for a variety of critters.
Chicory seeds become available around august. If the neighbors
complain
you will be limited to chicory and dandelion,which are less
conspicuously weeds, and which is what I used.
simy1


With no disrespect to the other posters, what I see being suggested are
some invasive plants that many would consider weeds.

Weeds & invasive weeds would be two different topics. Native plants
include many that are "weeds." The ease with which housing developers
eradicate all native plants to replace with the same-old half-dozen garden
shrubs presupposes that ALL native plants are just weeds.

While I don't necessarily second simy1's idea that a weed patch would be
best, I don't think it's an awful idea, & I can certainly see making it
work. At SinLur Stoneworks Garden I'm removing an extensive area of salal
which chokes out everything else (though pretty stuff & kept in some
areas), while being careful not to disrupt the other native shrubs in this
previously ungardened area, which is dominated by huckleberries & coastal
rhododendrons. I'm adding to the area exclusively stuff that can be found
wild on Puget Sound &/or the Olympic Penninsula, no cultivars, no plants
from other parts of the world in this particular garden.

The line dividing wildflower & weed scarsely exists. Most would agree the
trilliums & western corydalis are wildflowers, not weeds; there'd be
divided opinions about the rapidly-spreading western bleedingheart being a
weed or not. Western burdock most would dismiss as a weed, but to me it is
a beautiful native plant; it does not spread rampantly even here in its
native range. It is rarely gardened because of the idea that it is "a
weed" (or because there ARE invasive burdocks & our restrained native gets
blamed for an invasive species behavior). I was very pleased to see a
display garden at Clearcreek Nursery that uses the western burdock very
artfully, but it's hardly ever done.

-paghat the ratgirl

I would rather
know what you want to accomplish with the suggested plant material. Do
you want plants that will thrive under the current growing conditions
until you build and then remove them, do you want plants that will
enrich the soil until you build or do you just want a list for planting
after you build?

I think it's important to address the wet conditions, especially if you
are going to build. Take a look at this site for some helpful info on
drainage.
http://tinyurl.com/6gyux

If you want to cover the soil with plants that can be turned or mowed
for organic matter to improve the soil, consider planting natives.
They will be less trouble for you now and later when you might want to
change things. The best way to improve the soil would be to add
organic matter. You don't say how large the property is, but a
covering of leaves, shredded newspaper, lawn clippings, etc would be
helpful.

I suppose more information would be helpful. If you just want a list
of plants for your garden after you build, that would be easy to do.
We would need the sun conditions as well.

Newt
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden
people maintaining a free civil government." -Thomas Jefferson

Piscanthropus Profundus wrote:
"Newt" wrote in message
...

Travis Wrote:
Piscanthropus Profundus wrote:-

I've purchased a bit of property that I'm looking to build a new
home on in a few years. It's fairly heavy clay and quite wet in
the spring and autumn. I'm looking for plants that both tolerate
wet feet and will also absorb a fair amount of water. I'm in zone
5 - Niagara.-

Well, Duh, people, you keep overlooking the Japanese Iris! Just
about perfect for boggy areas. Look it up: Iris ensata.

Hemmaholic


I would consider intentionally planting taprooted weeds for a few
years. And I mean in great quantity (it may take a bit of seed
collecting, but all of them are very prolific), ten per square
foot or so. Mow them once a year in the fall to prevent woody
growth. Each taproot will become a drainage channel once the
plant dies, and for a mature plant the root will go down four to
six feet.
At the same time the organic content of the soil is improved to
great depth.

Dock, burdock, chicory and dandelion are the best. Only dock
really prefers wet soil but, being weeds, they are very
adaptable. Other taprooted plants become too woody to revert
easily to a lawn. Incidentally, I have done it and it works.
Right now you can find burdock burrs in weedlots, dock seeds
(available in july) disappear fast because they are a major
winter staple for a variety of critters. Chicory seeds become
available around august. If the neighbors complain
you will be limited to chicory and dandelion,which are less
conspicuously weeds, and which is what I used.
simy1


With no disrespect to the other posters, what I see being
suggested are some invasive plants that many would consider weeds.
I would rather know what you want to accomplish with the suggested
plant material. Do you want plants that will thrive under the
current growing conditions until you build and then remove them,
do you want plants that will enrich the soil until you build or do
you just want a list for planting after you build?

I think it's important to address the wet conditions, especially
if you are going to build. Take a look at this site for some
helpful info on drainage.
http://tinyurl.com/6gyux

If you want to cover the soil with plants that can be turned or
mowed for organic matter to improve the soil, consider planting
natives. They will be less trouble for you now and later when you
might want to change things. The best way to improve the soil
would be to add organic matter. You don't say how large the
property is, but a covering of leaves, shredded newspaper, lawn
clippings, etc would be helpful.

I suppose more information would be helpful. If you just want a
list of plants for your garden after you build, that would be easy
to do. We would need the sun conditions as well.

I'm looking to improve about 2 acres at the moment - all of it in
full sun.

I'd like some plants that will thrive in the current, unimproved,
conditions - including shrubs and trees. A windbreak is a must.
And I'd like to cover the area where the house and septic beds will
be located with something that can be tilled under - that layer of
topsoil will be scraped away before construction and then replaced
once everything is in place.

Piscanthropus Profundus dude:
You snipped what ever I said but left my name.

--

Travis in Shoreline Washington

Try Tamarack (Larix laricina), black spruce (picea mariana) and google
willows (Salix sp.).
For a ground cover, use wild mint(Mentha arvensis) or fireweek
(Epilobium angustifolium). Tuck in a few pitcher plants (Saracena
purpurea) to control mosquitoes.

Here's a site that might offer more ideas:
http://www.unep-wcmc.org/sites/wh/grosmorn.html

I'd also recommend googling this new trend of "Rain Gardens"

John
in Houston, with PLENTY of rain...

"Pen" wrote in message
om...
Try Tamarack (Larix laricina), black spruce (picea mariana) and google
willows (Salix sp.).
For a ground cover, use wild mint(Mentha arvensis) or fireweek
(Epilobium angustifolium). Tuck in a few pitcher plants (Saracena
purpurea) to control mosquitoes.

Here's a site that might offer more ideas:
http://www.unep-wcmc.org/sites/wh/grosmorn.html

Hi Simy1,
Please forgive all these quotes. I'm not a usenet user, but post directly to this site as a gardening forum and still haven't mastered the art of 'snipping' for quotes. I'm not even sure who I'm addressing this to as there are so many names here. I think I mistakenly posted my last post to Travis and it should have been to Simy1. Please forgive my mistake. I've tried to leave all the conversations here for clarity.

To review (so I know that I have this right), you want to build on a 2 acre site in a few years that has poor drainage and stays wet in spring and autumn and is in full sun. You would like to enrich the soil where the house and septic system will be so you can strip off the enriched topsoil and use elsewhere on the property. You live in Washington state in USDA zone 8b. A note here is that at one point you said you live in zone 5, but that is a sunset zone for warm temps and most folks will think it's a USDA zone for cold temps, which is what is commonly used. So if you post your zone, unless you live where it gets real hot in the summer, such as the southern states, it's best to post your zone as 8b for plant recommendations.

Here are my recommendations with the info I have. If you are going to strip off plant material so you can plant for enriching the soil, I would suggest that you address the drainage problems now if possible, especially since the land will need to be graded when building starts. That way you should be able to leave some of the property untouched while building is going on and there will be less bare land during and after construction. Mother nature doesn't like blank spaces and will fill it up with what is available that will grow. If you already have 'good' plant material in place once the house is built, then you will be able to take a more leisurly approach to landscaping with less headaches and disruption to the land later on.

There have been many suggestions for plant material. The best way I know of to improve the tilth and add organics to the land is to plant green manures. Here are some sites about how to do that, what to use and the biology of soil that you should find most helpful.
http://soils.usda.gov/sqi/soil_quali...gy_primer.html
http://www.soilfoodweb.com/
http://www.attra.org/soils.html
http://www.tagari.com/PermInst/FAQs.htm

Green manures - for the first one read especially from 'Green Manures' on:
http://www.cce.cornell.edu/programs/...ter/index.html
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/covercrop.html#principle
http://www.gardenguides.com/TipsandT...reenmanure.htm

Invasives info:
http://www.invasivespecies.gov/
http://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/seagrant/invlists.html

Trees for Washington:
http://www.dnr.wa.gov/webster/seedzonebook/

Something you might want to consider is to find out just which plants you already have on the site that have adapted to the wet conditions and either save, propagate or move them during construction. A place to start with could be your local native plant society. You might be able to get someone to come and id them and even rescue those that you don't want as there are conservation committees.. Their website also has links for landscaping, ecosystems, etc.
http://www.wnps.org/

Look here for local programs that might be helpful and native plant lists..
http://www.wnps.org/chapter_info/chapter_programs.html

Here are some other links you should find helpful. They are forums at Garden Web where you can do some reading and even post.. If you post on more then one forum, be sure and change the title of your post or their computer will think you are spamming and block you. Lots of helpful folks.
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/bog/
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/carnivor/
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/l...915589404.html
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/nwest/
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/soil/

Their main page:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/

Your local extension service is also a good place to get information.
http://ext.wsu.edu/

Hope this is helpful,
Newt

Wow! That was lovely, thanks for the tip.

"Tex John" wrote in message ...
I'd also recommend googling this new trend of "Rain Gardens"

John
in Houston, with PLENTY of rain...

Tex John,
Glad you found that helpful. :-) I previously posted links for sites on drainage, so if you need them again, just let me know.

Newt