Cereus-validus..... wrote:
Do you know how to do a Google search, Travis?

Of course I do. The definitions people are throwing about have no
meaning. If I said I liked cake how much does that tell you?

Your friend Janet Baraclough gave these defanitions:

" Humus is (relatively recently) decayed living material such as
plant/bacterial/animal material, the stuff you get out of a compost heap
or find on the floor surface of woodland, made of decayed leaves,
decayed animal corpses and faeces etc.

Loam is a variable combination of humus plus particles of geological
elements. Geological elements are stuff like sands, chalk, clay, grits;
their origin is far more ancient than humus. "

How precise is that? About as precise as the definition of "topsoil"
given here in this group.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

"Travis" wrote in message
news:d%g0e.23205$oa6.1581@trnddc07...
Cereus-validus..... wrote:
Here we go again.

"Top soil" is ANYTHING that makes up the surface layer of the soil
and does not have any specific chemical or biological composition.
It can be good for growing plants or it could be toxic. Buying
"top soil" is buying a "pig in a poke". You may not only be
wasting your money but you can actually be doing damage to your
garden by using it.
If you instead buy "humus", "loam" or "peat", you know exactly
what you are getting and how to use it.

Please define humus and loam. Who sets the standard for them and
who enforces that standard?

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message ghY%d.22081$oa6.14080@trnddc07
from "Travis" contains
these words:
The name "top soil" has no meaning.

It's a well-known term throughout Europe, meaning the fertile
layer above subsoil. When people here buy/sell a lorry-load of
soil for horticultural use, it's normal to specify topsoil.

Janet.

Travis wrote:
Your friend Janet Baraclough gave these defanitions:

" Humus is (relatively recently) decayed living material such as
plant/bacterial/animal material, the stuff you get out of a compost heap
or find on the floor surface of woodland, made of decayed leaves,
decayed animal corpses and faeces etc.

Loam is a variable combination of humus plus particles of geological
elements. Geological elements are stuff like sands, chalk, clay, grits;
their origin is far more ancient than humus. "

How precise is that? About as precise as the definition of "topsoil" given
here in this group.

If you're looking for some government standard, like how much fruit juice has to
be in a liquid for it to be marketed as "juice", or the maximum amount of fat
that can be in "lean ground beef", there is none.

However, those are more precise than the definition of "topsoil".

"Topsoil" is literally the soil from the top. Not the top soil for your needs,
as in "you're the top", or the best. Nor do we know what the topsoil was on top
of. However many people are likely to misunderstand "top" to mean best, and
others may assume that the topsoil in their area is the natural soil that is on
top of otherwise undisturbed land.

Despite those unrealistic expectations, there are some realistic expectations
that we should have for topsoil. For example, it should be free of rocks, and it
should be relatively loamy. It shouldn't have things like perlite or
vermiculite, and it isn't fortified with any synthetic fertilizer. It should be
a medium that we could grow common plants in, though not necessarily the best
medium for it.

The buyer, however, should exercise due diligence in inspecting the "topsoil"
before accepting it. If it's in branded bags, the buyer has the right to expect
some consistency. And if it's being bought by the truckload, a representative
sample should be provided.

I don't even know if the suppliers I've dealt with even have something called
"topsoil". They have a number of different mixes, readily available descriptions
of what's in those mixes, and are fairly consistent when they put together the
mixes. If someone wants "topsoil", I'm sure there's something they might be
directed to based on their intended use, and their budget.

I know that there are plenty of suppliers out there that will deliver just about
anything to someone who specifies nothing more than "topsoil". And I would hope
that anyone who's hung-out in any gardening forum would know enough to ask for
something more specific than "topsoil", no matter what they do or don't expect
from "topsoil".

And the same goes for "Potting Soil", "Garden Soil", "Lawn Soil", or any other
soil available. Unless you already know the supplier, and know what to expect
from that particular mix, ask. Check it out. Don't assume that "Potting Soil" is
interchangeable between suppliers, either.

You don't go to a paint store, and just ask for red paint. Don't go to a soil
supplier and just ask for "topsoil" (unless you're willing to accept just about
anything.) Descriptive terms have meaning. They may or may not be regulated
standards, and usually aren't.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Your Guide to the Care and Feeding of a Suburban Lawn:
http://www.holzemville.com/community...are/index.html

The definitions people are "throwing about" certainly do have meaning. You
just don't know what they are.

Janet's daffynitions will suffice.

Eat all the cake you want.
We will keep the bread for ourselves!


"Travis" wrote in message
news:eqn0e.23327$oa6.7199@trnddc07...
Cereus-validus..... wrote:
Do you know how to do a Google search, Travis?

Of course I do. The definitions people are throwing about have no
meaning. If I said I liked cake how much does that tell you?

Your friend Janet Baraclough gave these defanitions:

" Humus is (relatively recently) decayed living material such as
plant/bacterial/animal material, the stuff you get out of a compost heap
or find on the floor surface of woodland, made of decayed leaves,
decayed animal corpses and faeces etc.

Loam is a variable combination of humus plus particles of geological
elements. Geological elements are stuff like sands, chalk, clay, grits;
their origin is far more ancient than humus. "

How precise is that? About as precise as the definition of "topsoil"
given here in this group.

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5

"Travis" wrote in message
news:d%g0e.23205$oa6.1581@trnddc07...
Cereus-validus..... wrote:
Here we go again.

"Top soil" is ANYTHING that makes up the surface layer of the soil
and does not have any specific chemical or biological composition.
It can be good for growing plants or it could be toxic. Buying
"top soil" is buying a "pig in a poke". You may not only be
wasting your money but you can actually be doing damage to your
garden by using it.
If you instead buy "humus", "loam" or "peat", you know exactly
what you are getting and how to use it.

Please define humus and loam. Who sets the standard for them and
who enforces that standard?

--

Travis in Shoreline (just North of Seattle) Washington
USDA Zone 8b
Sunset Zone 5


"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message ghY%d.22081$oa6.14080@trnddc07
from "Travis" contains
these words:
The name "top soil" has no meaning.

It's a well-known term throughout Europe, meaning the fertile
layer above subsoil. When people here buy/sell a lorry-load of
soil for horticultural use, it's normal to specify topsoil.

Janet.

"Travis" wrote in message
news:eqn0e.23327$oa6.7199@trnddc07...
Cereus-validus..... wrote:
Do you know how to do a Google search, Travis?

Of course I do. The definitions people are throwing about have no
meaning. If I said I liked cake how much does that tell you?

Your friend Janet Baraclough gave these defanitions:

" Humus is (relatively recently) decayed living material such as
plant/bacterial/animal material, the stuff you get out of a compost heap
or find on the floor surface of woodland, made of decayed leaves,
decayed animal corpses and faeces etc.

Loam is a variable combination of humus plus particles of geological
elements. Geological elements are stuff like sands, chalk, clay, grits;
their origin is far more ancient than humus. "

How precise is that? About as precise as the definition of "topsoil"
given here in this group.

Sigh.....

Two days after a nice steady rain, you take a handful of soil and squeeze
it. Then, you break it up. If it crumbles like cake, it's well within the
realm of "structurally OK". It may still need nutrients or pH adjustment,
but that's another issue which has nothing to do with this one. Do you see
lots of happy little bugs and/or worms? Reason to celebrate.

Why does everything have to be so complicated?