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Watering with soft water
Sheldon wrote:
On Mar 1, 9:41�pm, Charles wrote: On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:12:11 -0800 (PST), Sheldon wrote: Charles wrote: "SteveB" wrote: I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water? They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but I need to get around and water some of the trees before that. For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it. Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium. Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over time it will build up, change the soil properties. That's not true. �There is no more salt contained in softened water than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually less. If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened water, now would it. �The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem as grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes), that never enters the domestic water. �If the typical water softener uses a pound of salt a day it's a lot, usually will use closer to 1/2 pound/ day. �The trick is to find a way for disposing of the grey water without it building up in one spot. �My grey water (water from my water softener, dehumidifier, and RO filter) is piped by gravity to a creek, the same creek that collects run off from many thousands of acres of lands as the creek meanders over many miles, which includes the many tons of salt spread on the roads in winter by the highway department.. my couple handfulls of salt a day is so negligible that it doesn't count. �And salt is not toxic it's a necessity of life, a salt lick for live stock places more salt into the ground than any water softener. �Softened water contains very little salt, certainly far less than if the water were not softened. Wrong, unless you are using a dual ion exchange system. �The common household water softener just exchanges calcium and magnesium ions for sodium. �The carbonate, sulfate, or whatever else is in the water stays where it is. http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-a...aundry/questio... Your reading comprehension skills are near the 3rd grade elementary school level, and I'm being quite generous. [per your web site] "Regeneration involves soaking the beads or zeolite in a stream of sodium ions. Salt is sodium chloride, so the water softener mixes up a very strong brine solution and flushes it through the zeolite or beads (this is why you load up a water softener with salt). The strong brine displaces all of the calcium and magnesium that has built up in the zeolite or beads and replaces it again with sodium. _The remaining brine plus all of the calcium and magnesium is flushed out through a drain pipe. "_ You're confusing "sodium" with "salt". The process is that sodium ions are picked up on the surface of the zeolite. Not "salt", just one of the chemical components of it. Those are exchanged for less-reactive calcium and magnesium ions in the water, so calcium carbonate (or magnesium sulfate or whatever) gets turned into sodium carbonate (or sodium sulfate or whatever) with a slight release of energy. The calcium and magnesium ions then remain on the suface of the zeolite until such time as it is regenerated by exposure to sodium chloride at which time it picks up the sodium ions and the calcium goes into the brine as calcium chloride. So the softened water has no "salt" added, what is has is the existing calcium and magnesium compounds turned into sodium compounds. The quantity of the compounds doesn't change, what changes is their chemical composition. If you think that a water softener works by "adding salt" then try adding salt to hard water and then have the hardness checked with and without salt and see what you get. -- -- --John to email, dial "usenet" and validate (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net) |
#2
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Watering with soft water
In article ,
"J. Clarke" wrote: Sheldon wrote: On Mar 1, 9:41?pm, Charles wrote: On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:12:11 -0800 (PST), Sheldon wrote: Charles wrote: "SteveB" wrote: I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water? They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but I need to get around and water some of the trees before that. For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it. Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium. Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over time it will build up, change the soil properties. That's not true. ?There is no more salt contained in softened water than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually less. If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened water, now would it. ?The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem as grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes), that never enters the domestic water. ?If the typical water softener uses a pound of salt a day it's a lot, usually will use closer to 1/2 pound/ day. ?The trick is to find a way for disposing of the grey water without it building up in one spot. ?My grey water (water from my water softener, dehumidifier, and RO filter) is piped by gravity to a creek, the same creek that collects run off from many thousands of acres of lands as the creek meanders over many miles, which includes the many tons of salt spread on the roads in winter by the highway department.. my couple handfulls of salt a day is so negligible that it doesn't count. ?And salt is not toxic it's a necessity of life, a salt lick for live stock places more salt into the ground than any water softener. ?Softened water contains very little salt, certainly far less than if the water were not softened. Wrong, unless you are using a dual ion exchange system. ?The common household water softener just exchanges calcium and magnesium ions for sodium. ?The carbonate, sulfate, or whatever else is in the water stays where it is. http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-a...aundry/questio... Your reading comprehension skills are near the 3rd grade elementary school level, and I'm being quite generous. [per your web site] "Regeneration involves soaking the beads or zeolite in a stream of sodium ions. Salt is sodium chloride, so the water softener mixes up a very strong brine solution and flushes it through the zeolite or beads (this is why you load up a water softener with salt). The strong brine displaces all of the calcium and magnesium that has built up in the zeolite or beads and replaces it again with sodium. _The remaining brine plus all of the calcium and magnesium is flushed out through a drain pipe. "_ You're confusing "sodium" with "salt". The process is that sodium ions are picked up on the surface of the zeolite. Not "salt", just one of the chemical components of it. Those are exchanged for less-reactive calcium and magnesium ions in the water, so calcium carbonate (or magnesium sulfate or whatever) gets turned into sodium carbonate (or sodium sulfate or whatever) with a slight release of energy. The calcium and magnesium ions then remain on the suface of the zeolite until such time as it is regenerated by exposure to sodium chloride at which time it picks up the sodium ions and the calcium goes into the brine as calcium chloride. So the softened water has no "salt" added, what is has is the existing calcium and magnesium compounds turned into sodium compounds. The quantity of the compounds doesn't change, what changes is their chemical composition. If you think that a water softener works by "adding salt" then try adding salt to hard water and then have the hardness checked with and without salt and see what you get. -- From my pitiful short garden experience. * Water from rain is best * then Water from rain barrels * then Water from softener * then Water from the hard line. * Let plants die. When I use my hard line my garden does not grow very well. Still better than no water at all. I have also found that flowers does seem to hold up better with the soft water than vegetables. Most water softeners are first run through a sediment filter taking out some nasty stuff first. Hard lines tend to come straight out of the well. Depending on the size of your garden that softener can get expensive, if it is a large one. If you are very rich and do not care, use the water from the R.O. purification system from your drinking water. Their are some companies that make inline water filters for the outside water lines (also not cheap). I will let you do the searching. Enjoy Life ... Dan -- Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically. |
#3
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Watering with soft water
"Dan L." wrote in message
... In article , "J. Clarke" wrote: Sheldon wrote: On Mar 1, 9:41?pm, Charles wrote: On Sat, 1 Mar 2008 18:12:11 -0800 (PST), Sheldon wrote: Charles wrote: "SteveB" wrote: I believe that the hose bibs on the outside of my house are hooked to the soft water system. ?Is there any disadvantage to watering with soft water? They're about to turn on the irrigation water system in our rural area, but I need to get around and water some of the trees before that. For occasional watering it is fine. ?For steady use I'd avoid it. Most softening systems replace the calcium and magnesium with sodium. Plants need calcium and magnesium, sodium is toxic. ?Over time it will build up, change the soil properties. That's not true. ?There is no more salt contained in softened water than there is in the bottled water that people drink, usually less. If softened water contained salt then it wouldn't be softened water, now would it. ?The salt used by water softeners leaves the sytem as grey water (along with the other minerals the system removes), that never enters the domestic water. ?If the typical water softener uses a pound of salt a day it's a lot, usually will use closer to 1/2 pound/ day. ?The trick is to find a way for disposing of the grey water without it building up in one spot. ?My grey water (water from my water softener, dehumidifier, and RO filter) is piped by gravity to a creek, the same creek that collects run off from many thousands of acres of lands as the creek meanders over many miles, which includes the many tons of salt spread on the roads in winter by the highway department.. my couple handfulls of salt a day is so negligible that it doesn't count. ?And salt is not toxic it's a necessity of life, a salt lick for live stock places more salt into the ground than any water softener. ?Softened water contains very little salt, certainly far less than if the water were not softened. Wrong, unless you are using a dual ion exchange system. ?The common household water softener just exchanges calcium and magnesium ions for sodium. ?The carbonate, sulfate, or whatever else is in the water stays where it is. http://home.howstuffworks.com/home-a...aundry/questio... Your reading comprehension skills are near the 3rd grade elementary school level, and I'm being quite generous. [per your web site] "Regeneration involves soaking the beads or zeolite in a stream of sodium ions. Salt is sodium chloride, so the water softener mixes up a very strong brine solution and flushes it through the zeolite or beads (this is why you load up a water softener with salt). The strong brine displaces all of the calcium and magnesium that has built up in the zeolite or beads and replaces it again with sodium. _The remaining brine plus all of the calcium and magnesium is flushed out through a drain pipe. "_ You're confusing "sodium" with "salt". The process is that sodium ions are picked up on the surface of the zeolite. Not "salt", just one of the chemical components of it. Those are exchanged for less-reactive calcium and magnesium ions in the water, so calcium carbonate (or magnesium sulfate or whatever) gets turned into sodium carbonate (or sodium sulfate or whatever) with a slight release of energy. The calcium and magnesium ions then remain on the suface of the zeolite until such time as it is regenerated by exposure to sodium chloride at which time it picks up the sodium ions and the calcium goes into the brine as calcium chloride. So the softened water has no "salt" added, what is has is the existing calcium and magnesium compounds turned into sodium compounds. The quantity of the compounds doesn't change, what changes is their chemical composition. If you think that a water softener works by "adding salt" then try adding salt to hard water and then have the hardness checked with and without salt and see what you get. -- From my pitiful short garden experience. * Water from rain is best * then Water from rain barrels * then Water from softener * then Water from the hard line. * Let plants die. When I use my hard line my garden does not grow very well. Still better than no water at all. I have also found that flowers does seem to hold up better with the soft water than vegetables. Most water softeners are first run through a sediment filter taking out some nasty stuff first. Hard lines tend to come straight out of the well. Depending on the size of your garden that softener can get expensive, if it is a large one. If you are very rich and do not care, use the water from the R.O. purification system from your drinking water. Their are some companies that make inline water filters for the outside water lines (also not cheap). I will let you do the searching. Enjoy Life ... Dan -- Email "dan lehr at comcast dot net". Text only or goes to trash automatically. The filter needed depends on what you want to remove, the concentration of that unwanted substance, AND, how much resulting water you intend to use during a filter change interval. A solar heated still with intermittent manual removal of solids is almost like rain water purity. United States Patent 5181991. Rain barrels are a good idea if you get enough rain, flush the gunk out of barrels and lines once in awhile (green slime, might be black if cold). ----- Dave |
#4
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Watering with soft water
Well I am not confusing anything. salt is NaCl which dissociates in water to Na+ and
Cl-. Cl-, BTW is what makes food taste "salty". The sodium ions are exchanged for the calcium and magnesium ions in the water which are stabilized with the chloride ions which are flushed down the drain. The sodium stays in the softened water. This is a BIG issue with people who keep fish because some places have so much calcium and/or magnesium in their water that the sodium ion concentration is thus high enough to sicken and/or kill their fish. This is even a bigger problem when people use salt prophylactically without testing for sodium ion concentration. It is the chloride ions that are helpful to fish, not the sodium. In addition physicians typically admonish their patients with high blood pressure to not drink softened water, rather, to use RO water for drinking. Ingrid On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:43:40 -0500, "J. Clarke" wrote: You're confusing "sodium" with "salt". The process is that sodium ions are picked up on the surface of the zeolite. Not "salt", just one of the chemical components of it. Those are exchanged for less-reactive calcium and magnesium ions in the water, so calcium carbonate (or magnesium sulfate or whatever) gets turned into sodium carbonate (or sodium sulfate or whatever) with a slight release of energy. The calcium and magnesium ions then remain on the suface of the zeolite until such time as it is regenerated by exposure to sodium chloride at which time it picks up the sodium ions and the calcium goes into the brine as calcium chloride. So the softened water has no "salt" added, what is has is the existing calcium and magnesium compounds turned into sodium compounds. The quantity of the compounds doesn't change, what changes is their chemical composition. If you think that a water softener works by "adding salt" then try adding salt to hard water and then have the hardness checked with and without salt and see what you get. -- |
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