Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look, what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.

"muzician21" wrote in message
news:eb21ecca-093d-4824-97fe-
Thanks for all input.

Look, I didnt study this as well as I should have.
BS engines with solid state ignition normally start pretty well.

I suspect you might be having fuel delivery problems. I have rebuilt the
"carburetors"
on some BS implements we have here several times.

In these cases, I have to take the fuel tank off, wash it well with water,
and then
carefully dry it. Then, I remove the carburetor, clean it, and put it back
together
with a new diaphragm. This is important. Just a carburetor job is not
enough.

Ignition may have to be followed up as well.

Let us know how you are proceeding. I have had only one BS engine really
disappoint me, and that was because the casting was make of parmesan cheese.

On May 23, 7:30*pm, muzician21 wrote:
Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look, what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.

try a quirt of starting fluid in the carb. Will it start any faster? I
too think it's a fuel delivery issue if it'll start quicker on the
starting fluid.

Does it have a choke setting?

You can also see if the solid state unit is adjustable. Maybe the gap
is too far apart.

On Sat, 23 May 2009 16:30:46 -0700 (PDT), muzician21
wrote:

Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look, what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.

Not familiar with this particular engine, but it sounds like a gas
delivery/mixture problem. Choking can be real critical with these.
This is the first year I've had no problem starting my 2-cycle
weedwacker because I've learned the primer bulb needs to be pumped up
hard, the exact choke setting it likes, and that it has to be unchoked
immediately upon firing. Only took me 5 years, but I've got it
starting in 3 pulls.
I'd start by maybe looking in the carb for wetness, and trying 3 to 5
pulls at different choke settings. But you have to let it dry out
between tries so you're not confusing the issue.
Once you know what works, you're all set. Until it doesn't work any
more.
That's what I like about the Honda I have on my Craftsman.
3 horse I think, 4-cycle.
It starts first pull after sitting all winter. Every time for about 6
years now. Original plug.
And I never drain the gas or use a gas additive on anything.
Not saying don't, just that I don't bother.

--Vic

On May 23, 7:00*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Sat, 23 May 2009 16:30:46 -0700 (PDT), muzician21



wrote:
Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look, what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.

Not familiar with this particular engine, but it sounds like a gas
delivery/mixture problem. *Choking can be real critical with these.
This is the first year I've had no problem starting my 2-cycle
weedwacker because I've learned the primer bulb needs to be pumped up
hard, the exact choke setting it likes, and that it has to be unchoked
immediately upon firing. *Only took me 5 years, but I've got it
starting in 3 pulls.
I'd start by maybe looking in the carb for wetness, and trying 3 to 5
pulls at different choke settings. *But you have to let it dry out
between tries so you're not confusing the issue.
Once you know what works, you're all set. *Until it doesn't work any
more.
That's what I like about the Honda I have on my Craftsman.
3 horse I think, 4-cycle.
It starts first pull after sitting all winter. *Every time for about 6
years now. *Original plug.
And I never drain the gas or use a gas additive on anything.
Not saying don't, just that I don't bother.

--Vic

If this is an older Briggs without a primer...they make an after---
market primer on a replacement gas cap.
Stens.com should have it (they used to). It makes starting a snap.

muzician21 wrote:
Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look, what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.
Sounds like it's time to do a little work on the carburetor. Put a new
diaphragm in it if it the older type that uses those. As the motors age
it's worth while to make a priming port in the air cleaner, drill a hole
you can plug after starting and spray some carb cleaner in it to start
it. Also check the valve clearances (those easy spin engine valve
clearances are pretty critical for easy starting) and a good spark plug.
Would help if you posted the engine model number. On newer ones
with primer bulbs and bowl/float it's common for the main jet to get
clogged over winter.

Fat Moe wrote:
muzician21 wrote:
Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

[snip]

Thanks for all input.
Sounds like it's time to do a little work on the carburetor. Put a new
diaphragm in it if it the older type that uses those. As the motors age
it's worth while to make a priming port in the air cleaner, drill a hole
you can plug after starting and spray some carb cleaner in it to start
it. Also check the valve clearances (those easy spin engine valve
clearances are pretty critical for easy starting) and a good spark plug.
Would help if you posted the engine model number. On newer ones with
primer bulbs and bowl/float it's common for the main jet to get clogged
over winter.

I had a mower given to me recently by a co-worker. It uses a B&S engine.
I had to take the carb apart and clean out the main jet because he
hadn't used it in years. The mower would not stay running unless I did
that however, it *would* start up still on the first or second try if
primed properly. It would also continue running if a 2nd person was
available to continue priming it. I don't know anything about mowers but
if the OP's mower takes that long to start could it still be an issue of
a dirty/clogged carb? I'm just comparing what you said to what I
recently experienced.

On Sat, 23 May 2009 16:30:46 -0700 (PDT), muzician21
wrote:

Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look, what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.


Does it have one of those push ball primer gizmos? I've got a BS with
one, it's about 5 years old now. Supposedly it takes 3 to 4 pushes of
the ball to prime it. But that has never worked. It takes 13 pushes,
and has since it was new, to get it primed. then it starts on the
first pull and runs just fine.

On Sat, 23 May 2009 16:30:46 -0700 (PDT), muzician21 wrote:

Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look, what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.

It certainly seems that there's a fuel problem when cold, since you say the
engine runs fine once started.

A couple of suggestions, with apologies if they're not relevant due to the
layout of your particular engine:-

1) Remove the air cleaner and see if you can look into the carburettor's
air intake pipe.
Normally there will be a spring-loaded butterfly valve, which is closed
when the throttle is in the "start" position. If there's any obstruction
preventing this butterfly valve plate from closing properly it can allow
too much air to enter in the start position, so the start mixture isn't
rich enough.

2) If the carburettor has a priming bulb (which you push to prime the
engine), give it two or three pushes while you're looking into the intake
pipe, and confirm that raw fuel is being squirted in there.

My mower starts first pull, but only since I realised that it takes a
little time for the raw fuel squirted in by the primer bulb, to evaporate.

These days I normally give the bulb four pushes, take the cap off the gas
tank, and then fill the tank from my fuel can. By the time I've done this
and replaced the cap, the raw fuel has mostly evaporated, and the engine
draws in vapour instead of liquid fuel, to start on the first pull.

Cheers,
John S

(follow-up set to rec.autos.tech, where I saw your post)

muzician21 wrote:
Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use.

The issue is that the engine needs a rich mixture to start when cold.
There are several different ways that the engine (carb) could be
designed to do that. In your case it probably has a choke. If it was the
original 30 year old engine the choke would probably be part of the
throttle control. The procedure for starting the engine would be to set
the throttle to the start position and then when the engine started you
would move the throttle control lever to the run position. On this
design the throttle cable was mechanically linked to the choke plate.
Sometime in the 80's they changed that to an automatic choke where a
spring closed the choke plate and then a diaphragm used engine vacuum to
pull the choke open once it started. On newer engines there is also the
system that eliminates the choke completely and replaced it with a
primer bulb where you pump a little gas (others have described the
process).

So the first thing you need to do is identify which method it uses to
deliver extra gas on cold starts and then figure out why it is not
working as designed.

-jim

On May 23, 6:30*pm, muzician21 wrote:
Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look, what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.

A motor that old may be worn out and not have enough compression to
start easily or have good power. Have you tried starting fluid.
Electonic ignition modules eventualy fail, hard starting was my first
sign of mine failing. If you have ever hit anything and stalled the
mower the flywheel key could be bent throwing off timing. At that age
it could be many things.

On May 23, 6:30*pm, muzician21 wrote:
Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look, what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.

Part no.125-492

http://www.stens.com/dealernet/catalog.html

Several things could be the issue.

* Sometimes the gasket between the carb and the engine body
dries out. Or people neglect to replace it. Pull the carb,
and make sure it has a gasket. A very little bit of Permatex
#2B Non Hardening gasket sealer will be a big help. If the
gasket isn't there, put a little permatex on the carb to
engine matching surfaces.
* Only buy new gasoline, of a trusted name brand. Pay the
couple extra cents and get good brand. In the western NY
area, Mobil and Hess are good.
* If the spark plug is Champion, try a different brand. They
had bad sparkplugs in the past.
* Like the guys say, try a squirt of ether on the air
cleaner filter before starting. If that helps, you likely
have fuel supply problems.
* A trace of water in the fuel tank will cause this kind of
problem.
* If the gap between the flywheel and the ignition coil is
too great, the spark will be weak. Normal air gap is about
the thickness of the cardboard they use for spark plug
boxes.

Please let us know how things work out. If you get it going,
or not. Either way, please write again. That way, we can
learn also.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"muzician21" wrote in message
...
Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum
deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest
of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed
a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state
ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually
started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more
and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a
clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to
re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem
to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the
exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so
it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during
the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory
of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove
and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace
the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should
start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look,
what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so
it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot
of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.

On May 23, 4:30*pm, muzician21 wrote:
Have a B&S on a 70's era Snapper 21" pusher with an aluminum deck. I
believe the engine is probably 10 years newer than the rest of the
mower.

Maybe 10 years ago I took it to a repair shop who installed a solid
state unit to replace the points. Even with the solid state ignition
it was never one-pull start, but as I recall it usually started with
probably 3 - 5 pulls. Now it takes probably 20 pulls or more and
monkeying with the throttle. Once it fires it runs like a clock, runs
up and down the speed range fine. It's also easier to re-start once
it's been running - though still not one pull. Doesn't seem to use an
inordinate amount of oil, no discernible smoke out the exhaust. It
gets what I'd call moderate use. I'm in central Florida so it gets run
bi-weekly or so during the rainy months, not at all during the months
of what passes for a winter down here.

I'm mechanically inclined but not well-versed on the theory of this
kind of engine. I've had it broken down far enough to remove and flush
the gas tank, change the points when it had points, replace the pull
rope. I've change the spark plug of course. I know it should start
much easier than it does. Any suggestions where to look, what to
tweak? There isn't that much to it from what I can see, so it
shouldn't be that difficult. I believe this mower has a lot of life
left in it.

Thanks for all input.

I have found that a lot of times the muffler is plugged.
I have got some good byes because of a plugged muffler.

Sorry you had to say good bye to a mower, just cause the
muffler is clogged. Many of them have half inch pipe thread,
and replace rather easily.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"JP" wrote in message
...

I have found that a lot of times the muffler is plugged.
I have got some good byes because of a plugged muffler.