On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:50:02 +0000, USENET READER wrote:

Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?

And I'm sure your people just sprung up out of the ground? Are you
American Indian? It's nice that your trying to pin the
quality/manufacturing of these tools an illegal immigrants. All these
"mexicans" are doing is buying what they can afford. You and your friends
should be ****ed at the contractors who are *Hiring* these laborers. They
hire these people because they are cheaper, non-union and they are
disposable.

The real problems are the corporations that are dismantling the American
economy factory by factory and selling the machinery and technology to
"Red China". Wal-Mart is the largest of the leaders in this new movement:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

So I suggest that you stop trolling and watch the above line and learn
something........

--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

No - my family immigrated to this country legally - half through Ellis
Island and the other half through other legal ports.

And actually - I know a shitload more about politics in general and this
issue in particular than you probably do. So you can take your advice
to watch and learn and stick it!

Of course I blame the contractors who hire the illegals. I also blame
all the other managers and owners of other business who hire illegals
for less money than they pay citizens and legal immigrants. And I blame
the politicans who get bribed to look the other way when they take money
from these businesses and also from right-wing foundations to study
market-based solutions to public policy issues.



Timothy wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:50:02 +0000, USENET READER wrote:


Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?


And I'm sure your people just sprung up out of the ground? Are you
American Indian? It's nice that your trying to pin the
quality/manufacturing of these tools an illegal immigrants. All these
"mexicans" are doing is buying what they can afford. You and your friends
should be ****ed at the contractors who are *Hiring* these laborers. They
hire these people because they are cheaper, non-union and they are
disposable.

The real problems are the corporations that are dismantling the American
economy factory by factory and selling the machinery and technology to
"Red China". Wal-Mart is the largest of the leaders in this new movement:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

So I suggest that you stop trolling and watch the above line and learn
something........

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:08:20 +0000, USENET READER wrote:

No - my family immigrated to this country legally - half through Ellis
Island and the other half through other legal ports.

And actually - I know a shitload more about politics in general and this
issue in particular than you probably do. So you can take your advice to
watch and learn and stick it!

Of course I blame the contractors who hire the illegals. I also blame all
the other managers and owners of other business who hire illegals for less
money than they pay citizens and legal immigrants. And I blame the
politicans who get bribed to look the other way when they take money from
these businesses and also from right-wing foundations to study
market-based solutions to public policy issues.


Who really give a crap on how your family got here? Legal...illegal, they
still came here... and why did they do that? Looking for a better life
than what the could find in the hole they crawled out of I'm sure. That's
all these "illegal" immigrants are trying to do.

You presume too much about me when it comes to politics, I'm a blue dog
Democrat.I grew up in the Ohio Valley, watching my Dad work 16 hours a day
at Weirton Steel, standing with him on the picket lines, collecting cans
so we could eat. STFU! You have no high ground here Sir. I've remember
when it was Japan that was dumping steel on the global market and we just
about starved. Sucks to have to eat goverment cheese.

All your posts' are doing,(besides one huge F'ing troll for attention) is
blaming everyone around you for the problems of the American economy. You
sure was thinking about buying American when you bought your VW, now
wern't ya. Are you protesting the union breaking that's going on? Are you
shopping as locally as possible? Are you supporting your local mom and
pops, or are you bitchin' about the crap tools at Lowes?

I too live someplace with a large "immigrant" population. Be it mexican or
korean or russian, going to the grocery store is like going to a different
country due to all the different languages floating in the air. All these
people are doing is to look for a better life. And you damn well get used
to it. You sure as hell not going to do the jobs that these people due for
the wage that they get. The American workers are some of the highest paid
workers in the world, be ready for your pay cut and you can thank the new
corporate modle for that.

Remember, even in the worst of times, your standard of living is still far
and above 4 billion other people in this world ... and always will be.
Quit yer bitchin' and start buying American, start by selling your
VW....lol


--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

Timothy wrote:

shopping as locally as possible? Are you supporting your local mom and
pops, or are you bitchin' about the crap tools at Lowes?

Great insight. I found my American cast axe in a locally owned
hardware store, not part of a chain.

Gregor

"Gregor" wrote

shopping as locally as possible? Are you supporting your local mom and
pops, or are you bitchin' about the crap tools at Lowes?

Great insight. I found my American cast axe in a locally owned
hardware store, not part of a chain.

I remember the days when many Americans made their
own damn axes because there wasn't a store for ninety
miles from their homestead. Everyone thought the next
generation was going to hellfire and damnation because
they couldn't make their own tools. Turns out, they made
more valuable things[1] instead. This exact same scenario
is going play out with computers, but never mind. The
old fogeys would rather remain in the years gone by.


1. A service economy does have it's rickity underpinnings.
I'm trying hard to not make a tsunami reference.

--Ted

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:44:57 -0800, Timothy
wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:08:20 +0000, USENET READER wrote:

No - my family immigrated to this country legally - half through Ellis
Island and the other half through other legal ports.

And actually - I know a shitload more about politics in general and this
issue in particular than you probably do. So you can take your advice to
watch and learn and stick it!

Of course I blame the contractors who hire the illegals. I also blame all
the other managers and owners of other business who hire illegals for less
money than they pay citizens and legal immigrants. And I blame the
politicans who get bribed to look the other way when they take money from
these businesses and also from right-wing foundations to study
market-based solutions to public policy issues.


Who really give a crap on how your family got here? Legal...illegal, they
still came here... and why did they do that? Looking for a better life
than what the could find in the hole they crawled out of I'm sure. That's
all these "illegal" immigrants are trying to do.

My great-great grandfather claimed to be a Frenchman in order to
emigrate to the US in the mid-1800s, because the quota for Germans was
already filled. Am I going to be deported to Germany?

Tom Disque wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:44:57 -0800, Timothy
wrote:


On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:08:20 +0000, USENET READER wrote:


No - my family immigrated to this country legally - half through Ellis
Island and the other half through other legal ports.

And actually - I know a shitload more about politics in general and this
issue in particular than you probably do. So you can take your advice to
watch and learn and stick it!

Of course I blame the contractors who hire the illegals. I also blame all
the other managers and owners of other business who hire illegals for less
money than they pay citizens and legal immigrants. And I blame the
politicans who get bribed to look the other way when they take money from
these businesses and also from right-wing foundations to study
market-based solutions to public policy issues.


Who really give a crap on how your family got here? Legal...illegal, they
still came here... and why did they do that? Looking for a better life
than what the could find in the hole they crawled out of I'm sure. That's
all these "illegal" immigrants are trying to do.


My great-great grandfather claimed to be a Frenchman in order to
emigrate to the US in the mid-1800s, because the quota for Germans was
already filled. Am I going to be deported to Germany?

Let's hope they make you go back! Actually, depending on where he was
from (I am thinking Alsace-Lorraine) he could have been French or German
at one time or the other. Did he speak both languages?

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 01:38:15 GMT, USENET READER
wrote:



Tom Disque wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 15:44:57 -0800, Timothy
wrote:


On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:08:20 +0000, USENET READER wrote:


No - my family immigrated to this country legally - half through Ellis
Island and the other half through other legal ports.

And actually - I know a shitload more about politics in general and this
issue in particular than you probably do. So you can take your advice to
watch and learn and stick it!

Of course I blame the contractors who hire the illegals. I also blame all
the other managers and owners of other business who hire illegals for less
money than they pay citizens and legal immigrants. And I blame the
politicans who get bribed to look the other way when they take money from
these businesses and also from right-wing foundations to study
market-based solutions to public policy issues.


Who really give a crap on how your family got here? Legal...illegal, they
still came here... and why did they do that? Looking for a better life
than what the could find in the hole they crawled out of I'm sure. That's
all these "illegal" immigrants are trying to do.


My great-great grandfather claimed to be a Frenchman in order to
emigrate to the US in the mid-1800s, because the quota for Germans was
already filled. Am I going to be deported to Germany?

Let's hope they make you go back! Actually, depending on where he was
from (I am thinking Alsace-Lorraine) he could have been French or German
at one time or the other. Did he speak both languages?

I don't know. The few remaining scraps from his diary are written in
German. There is a Chateau D'Isque in Alsace-Lorraine, however. It
seems they got chased out of France into Germany in the 1200s by the
peasants. I dunno if there is any connection between them and my
great-great grandfather.

Tom Disque wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 01:38:15 GMT, USENET READER
wrote:

Let's hope they make you go back! Actually, depending on where he was
from (I am thinking Alsace-Lorraine) he could have been French or German
at one time or the other. Did he speak both languages?

I don't know. The few remaining scraps from his diary are written in
German. There is a Chateau D'Isque in Alsace-Lorraine, however. It
seems they got chased out of France into Germany in the 1200s by the
peasants. I dunno if there is any connection between them and my
great-great grandfather.

I dunno if I'd make claims to being French, Tom. I lived
just across the border from Lorraine for a few years; crossing
the border was like walking into a trash dump. They had
huge amounts of common litter everywhere in the streets and
on the sidewalks. The best one-word description I can give it
would be "seedy" or "unkempt".

FYI - many of the local Germans spoke quite a bit of French,
too - and they all used a French pronunciation for the town
of Bitburg ("bit-bourgh" - which is why the GIs called it
"bit-bush").
Just a few miles north, the Luxembourgers concocted a strange
language out of it: Luxembourgish, which is just about half
German and half old French.

Timothy wrote:
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:08:20 +0000, USENET READER wrote:


No - my family immigrated to this country legally - half through Ellis
Island and the other half through other legal ports.

And actually - I know a shitload more about politics in general and this
issue in particular than you probably do. So you can take your advice to
watch and learn and stick it!

Of course I blame the contractors who hire the illegals. I also blame all
the other managers and owners of other business who hire illegals for less
money than they pay citizens and legal immigrants. And I blame the
politicans who get bribed to look the other way when they take money from
these businesses and also from right-wing foundations to study
market-based solutions to public policy issues.



Who really give a crap on how your family got here? Legal...illegal, they
still came here... and why did they do that? Looking for a better life
than what the could find in the hole they crawled out of I'm sure. That's
all these "illegal" immigrants are trying to do.

Sorry - it does matter how people got here - legal is better. When you
come here illegally, not only are you breaking the law, but you set
yourself up for getting porly treated in the workplace and elsewhere,
and who are you gonna go to to complain to, without risking getting
tossed out on your ass (as you should be).

You presume too much about me when it comes to politics, I'm a blue dog
Democrat.I grew up in the Ohio Valley, watching my Dad work 16 hours a day
at Weirton Steel, standing with him on the picket lines, collecting cans
so we could eat. STFU! You have no high ground here Sir. I've remember
when it was Japan that was dumping steel on the global market and we just
about starved. Sucks to have to eat goverment cheese.

Yes I am sure it does suck to do that - and what are you doing to take
your government back from the people in power who set the country up for
being outsourced?

All your posts' are doing,(besides one huge F'ing troll for attention) is
blaming everyone around you for the problems of the American economy. You
sure was thinking about buying American when you bought your VW, now
wern't ya. Are you protesting the union breaking that's going on? Are you
shopping as locally as possible? Are you supporting your local mom and
pops, or are you bitchin' about the crap tools at Lowes?

Actually the VW is made in Mexico and I didn't buy it - someone owed me
money for work done and I got the car instead of the cash.

Yes I am protesting the breakups of unions. I am shopping locally and
not buying stuff at big box stores. I am bitching about the crap Chinese
tools sold everywhere - even at mom and pop stores.

I too live someplace with a large "immigrant" population. Be it mexican or
korean or russian, going to the grocery store is like going to a different
country due to all the different languages floating in the air. All these
people are doing is to look for a better life. And you damn well get used
to it. You sure as hell not going to do the jobs that these people due for
the wage that they get. The American workers are some of the highest paid
workers in the world, be ready for your pay cut and you can thank the new
corporate modle for that.

I got no problem with people coming here for a better life - it's just
that them coming here for a better life can sometimes have the effect of
lowering the living standards of those of use who were born here or
who came here legally. When you have a boat, you can't have everyone
come to one side otherwise the boat will capsize - that is the effect of
having too many people come here illegally.

Actually - these people do jobs that were done years ago by Americans -
janitorial work, construction work, etc. The business owners want to
hold down costs - or just put more money into their own pockets - by
hiring illegals because they will work cheaper. So are you saying that
we should just open up the borders to anyone who wants to come here and
suffer the consequences of lower wages overall and less workplace health
and safety on the job, or should we cut off the flow of the illegals,
throw out the illegals who are here, and that would drive up the wages?
It's simply supply and demand - you decrease the supply of illegal
workers, and the demand for legal workers goes up as does their pay.
They get paid more, they spend more and their money can be spent here on
American made products because the American worker will have more money
to spend and when you have that increased income - you can afford to buy
better goods.

Remember, even in the worst of times, your standard of living is still far
and above 4 billion other people in this world ... and always will be.
Quit yer bitchin' and start buying American, start by selling your
VW....lol

What's the point of selling my VW - someone else would buy it who would
not be buying American. What would be the point of that? Actually in
my driveway I have three American cars - two GMs and a Ford. I work on
them myself. I drive the VQ simply to have a manual transmission car
that the other people in my family can't drive and screw it up. Are
there any fuel efficient American made cars that get good milage? What
do you drive?

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:08:20 GMT, USENET READER
wrote:

No - my family immigrated to this country legally - half through Ellis
Island and the other half through other legal ports.

And actually - I know a shitload more about politics in general and this
issue in particular than you probably do. So you can take your advice
to watch and learn and stick it!

Of course I blame the contractors who hire the illegals. I also blame
all the other managers and owners of other business who hire illegals
for less money than they pay citizens and legal immigrants. And I blame
the politicans who get bribed to look the other way when they take money
from these businesses and also from right-wing foundations to study
market-based solutions to public policy issues.

Do you also blame the customer who looks for the lowest price?

Tom Disque wrote:

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:08:20 GMT, USENET READER
wrote:


No - my family immigrated to this country legally - half through Ellis
Island and the other half through other legal ports.

And actually - I know a shitload more about politics in general and this
issue in particular than you probably do. So you can take your advice
to watch and learn and stick it!

Of course I blame the contractors who hire the illegals. I also blame
all the other managers and owners of other business who hire illegals
for less money than they pay citizens and legal immigrants. And I blame
the politicans who get bribed to look the other way when they take money

from these businesses and also from right-wing foundations to study

market-based solutions to public policy issues.


Do you also blame the customer who looks for the lowest price?

It depends on circumstances - who they are and what they are buying?
Lower prices do not always save someone money in the long run. Al
things are not equal. If you buy a lower price good that is a piece of
crap that falls apart and you have to go back and buy another, then you
haven't saved money have you? Had you purchased the higher-priced
quality good, you would still be using it now. You wouldn't have had to
make two trips to the store, burned the gas, etc - to buy the item twice.

When you buy crap at Wal Mart, you end up putting more money into the
pockets of a large corporation that gets tax breaks that aren't given to
smaller businesses that probably take better care of their employees.
Even the Wal Mart distribution center in Henderson gets tax breaks that
were never given to Roses and Roses was home based in Henderson. The
lower prices you pay at Wal Mart and other big box stores comes at the
price of you having to pay higher and higher taxes to make up for what
Wal Mart doesn't pay in taxes as well as the lack of benefits that
causes Wal Mart employees to go to hospital emergency rooms that you end
up having to pay for.

Then there is the issue of your spending the money on the cheaper made
item - even if the quality is the same as a more expensive good. Your
purchases of those goods will eventually lead to more Americans losing
their jobs, and you having to pay higher taxes to make up for what they
don't pay because they aren't working, or are underemployed.

Sometimes paying more for a product from a Mom and Pop store is cheaper
in the long run than paying a lower price with respect to what you have
to make up for in higher taxes.