I was in the Greenhouse and it appears that my L. anceps and Schomburgkia
splendida will both be in flower at the same time. Both of these monsters
have flowers on long inflorenses but the flowers are very different. I was
thinking....what would happen if they were crossed?

A search of the RHS website shows this to be Schombolaelia Splendid Spire
registered by SBOE in 2003.

Picture of this is at
http://sborchid.com/OrchidOfTheDay/S...endidSpire.htm

Those of you in the know, is this a worthy cross? Sounds like a lot of fun.
The registered cross shows the seed parent as the Schomburgkia. If I get
the change should I try it both ways?

Gene: At least one person already thought this was a worthy cross. Whether
you should do a re-make depends on your goals, and on the quality of your
parent plants.

Do you want just a few for yourself, or is this a commercial venture? If
for yourself, are you going to do your own flasking? Or have a buddy that
does it at home? Do you have room to grow out hundreds of seedlings to find
the best ones? Or do you just want to "see what happens" out of the first
50 or 100?

If commercial, do you have reason to believe your parent plants are
superior to those used to make the original? Or that the reciprocal cross
[see below] would be better than what the first person made? And have you
looked into the cost/minimum of having a pod flasked for you? [Back to "how
much room do you have" G -- I have yet to find a lab that wants to do less
than 1000; if you find one, kindly email contact info!] You have, of
course, already lost the opportunity to name the cross.

Barring a good reason not to, it's generally best to make a cross both ways.
The reasons for doing it both ways a First, it may "take" one way and
not the other; secondly, if you can afford to grow both sets of offspring,
they may be quite different, even though they'll bear the same name [see
below]. Reasons not to will vary by hybridizer, but as an example, I use S.
tibicinis only as a pollen donor because I can't afford the space to keep
those 12' spikes around for 6+ months to let pods mature. Even though the
one you see lists the Schombo as the pod parent, that only means it was the
first registered. Offspring of the reciprocal cross will carry the same
name even though the parents are reversed [last I looked ...] Kenni



"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:IAB3f.19353$at1.15131@trnddc05...
I was in the Greenhouse and it appears that my L. anceps and Schomburgkia
splendida will both be in flower at the same time. Both of these monsters
have flowers on long inflorenses but the flowers are very different. I
was
thinking....what would happen if they were crossed?

A search of the RHS website shows this to be Schombolaelia Splendid Spire
registered by SBOE in 2003.

Picture of this is at
http://sborchid.com/OrchidOfTheDay/S...endidSpire.htm

Those of you in the know, is this a worthy cross? Sounds like a lot of
fun.
The registered cross shows the seed parent as the Schomburgkia. If I get
the change should I try it both ways?

Kenni,

My Laelia anceps "Irwin" AM/AOS would be one of the parents. The
Schomburkia parent will be blooming for the second time for me and was
interesting last year but not awarded.

I just saw the plants next to each other today and the plant form was
similar. It made me stop and think about what would happen if they were
crossed. I was wondering how difficult it would be to cross Schomb with
Laelia.

Gene




"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...
Gene: At least one person already thought this was a worthy cross.
Whether
you should do a re-make depends on your goals, and on the quality of your
parent plants.

Do you want just a few for yourself, or is this a commercial venture? If
for yourself, are you going to do your own flasking? Or have a buddy that
does it at home? Do you have room to grow out hundreds of seedlings to
find
the best ones? Or do you just want to "see what happens" out of the first
50 or 100?

If commercial, do you have reason to believe your parent plants are
superior to those used to make the original? Or that the reciprocal cross
[see below] would be better than what the first person made? And have you
looked into the cost/minimum of having a pod flasked for you? [Back to
"how
much room do you have" G -- I have yet to find a lab that wants to do
less
than 1000; if you find one, kindly email contact info!] You have, of
course, already lost the opportunity to name the cross.

Barring a good reason not to, it's generally best to make a cross both
ways.
The reasons for doing it both ways a First, it may "take" one way and
not the other; secondly, if you can afford to grow both sets of offspring,
they may be quite different, even though they'll bear the same name [see
below]. Reasons not to will vary by hybridizer, but as an example, I use
S.
tibicinis only as a pollen donor because I can't afford the space to keep
those 12' spikes around for 6+ months to let pods mature. Even though the
one you see lists the Schombo as the pod parent, that only means it was
the
first registered. Offspring of the reciprocal cross will carry the same
name even though the parents are reversed [last I looked ...] Kenni



"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:IAB3f.19353$at1.15131@trnddc05...
I was in the Greenhouse and it appears that my L. anceps and Schomburgkia
splendida will both be in flower at the same time. Both of these
monsters
have flowers on long inflorenses but the flowers are very different. I
was
thinking....what would happen if they were crossed?

A search of the RHS website shows this to be Schombolaelia Splendid
Spire
registered by SBOE in 2003.

Picture of this is at
http://sborchid.com/OrchidOfTheDay/S...endidSpire.htm

Those of you in the know, is this a worthy cross? Sounds like a lot of
fun.
The registered cross shows the seed parent as the Schomburgkia. If I
get
the change should I try it both ways?

I was thinking along Kenni's line about trying both sides of the recip, but
if I was doing that, I'd be hoping more for the anceps as the pod parent to
"take", in hopes of it being a more compact bloomer.

I know that I have tried twice now to get B. cucullata x Blc. Castle
Treasure to take, and it hasn't either time. The recip did both times, and
maybe I'll get to keep the capsule this year - mice ate it about a week
before harvest last fall....
--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:ALC3f.25666$3w.12256@trnddc07...
Kenni,

My Laelia anceps "Irwin" AM/AOS would be one of the parents. The
Schomburkia parent will be blooming for the second time for me and was
interesting last year but not awarded.

I just saw the plants next to each other today and the plant form was
similar. It made me stop and think about what would happen if they were
crossed. I was wondering how difficult it would be to cross Schomb with
Laelia.

Gene




"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...
Gene: At least one person already thought this was a worthy cross.
Whether
you should do a re-make depends on your goals, and on the quality of your
parent plants.

Do you want just a few for yourself, or is this a commercial venture? If
for yourself, are you going to do your own flasking? Or have a buddy
that
does it at home? Do you have room to grow out hundreds of seedlings to
find
the best ones? Or do you just want to "see what happens" out of the
first
50 or 100?

If commercial, do you have reason to believe your parent plants are
superior to those used to make the original? Or that the reciprocal
cross
[see below] would be better than what the first person made? And have
you
looked into the cost/minimum of having a pod flasked for you? [Back to
"how
much room do you have" G -- I have yet to find a lab that wants to do
less
than 1000; if you find one, kindly email contact info!] You have, of
course, already lost the opportunity to name the cross.

Barring a good reason not to, it's generally best to make a cross both
ways.
The reasons for doing it both ways a First, it may "take" one way and
not the other; secondly, if you can afford to grow both sets of
offspring,
they may be quite different, even though they'll bear the same name [see
below]. Reasons not to will vary by hybridizer, but as an example, I use
S.
tibicinis only as a pollen donor because I can't afford the space to keep
those 12' spikes around for 6+ months to let pods mature. Even though
the
one you see lists the Schombo as the pod parent, that only means it was
the
first registered. Offspring of the reciprocal cross will carry the same
name even though the parents are reversed [last I looked ...] Kenni



"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:IAB3f.19353$at1.15131@trnddc05...
I was in the Greenhouse and it appears that my L. anceps and
Schomburgkia
splendida will both be in flower at the same time. Both of these
monsters
have flowers on long inflorenses but the flowers are very different. I
was
thinking....what would happen if they were crossed?

A search of the RHS website shows this to be Schombolaelia Splendid
Spire
registered by SBOE in 2003.

Picture of this is at
http://sborchid.com/OrchidOfTheDay/S...endidSpire.htm

Those of you in the know, is this a worthy cross? Sounds like a lot of
fun.
The registered cross shows the seed parent as the Schomburgkia. If I
get
the change should I try it both ways?

Gene Schurg wrote:
I was in the Greenhouse and it appears that my L. anceps and Schomburgkia
splendida will both be in flower at the same time. Both of these monsters
have flowers on long inflorenses but the flowers are very different. I was
thinking....what would happen if they were crossed?

A search of the RHS website shows this to be Schombolaelia Splendid Spire
registered by SBOE in 2003.

Picture of this is at
http://sborchid.com/OrchidOfTheDay/S...endidSpire.htm

Those of you in the know, is this a worthy cross? Sounds like a lot of fun.
The registered cross shows the seed parent as the Schomburgkia. If I get
the change should I try it both ways?




Worthy depends on how much you want to see what happens... There really
isn't any other measure of worth in orchids anyway. If you like it, you
value it, if you don't like it, it has no value.

Main problem I see with it is that it would take up a lot of space to
bloom some out. But you are already growing the parents and know what
you are in for. Imagine 50 or so in your greenhouse and decide how much
you want to make the cross. In my opinion, there is very little
commercial 'value' in this kind of cross, at least in my area where
everybody grows under lights and greenhouse space is tight. I couldn't
even give these away. But, in a more tropical clime, perhaps they would
be more popular.

A more useful schomburghkia cross around here would be to smaller,
perhaps rupiculous, laelias. If we could bring down the size of the
progeny a substantial amount, there would be more interest.

Rob
--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

Gene Schurg wrote:
Those of you in the know, is this a worthy cross?

In my opinion, no. Judging by the photo you linked to, the hybrid
loses the gloss and most of the crisped edges of S. splendida petals,
but the influence of S. splendida also narrows and bows the petals.
The resulting hybrid lacks the interesting color contrast of S.
splendida and the beautiful star shaped flower of L. anceps. The
hybrid also appears to have taller pseudobulbs than the L. anceps
parent. I don't see any improvement over the parent species.

Both of your species are beautiful plants in their own right. Perhaps
you might want to self them or intercross with other members of the
same species? If you don't flask yourself, and don't have room for
zillions of seedlings, then you could send the species seed to Troy
Meyers. That would get you a free flask of good-sized seedlings.

Nick

Hi Gene,
Just want to mention that there are always people that buy these
crosses.
My friend actually purchased this plant from S.Barb. in a silent auction &
paid
hundreds???? I got a small piece from him for $20.
Will post his pics which were taken last year, over on abpo.

--
Cheers Wendy

Remove PETERPAN for email reply

Gene Schurg wrote:
I was in the Greenhouse and it appears that my L. anceps and
Schomburgkia splendida will both be in flower at the same time. Both
of these monsters have flowers on long inflorenses but the flowers
are very different. I was thinking....what would happen if they were
crossed?

A search of the RHS website shows this to be Schombolaelia Splendid
Spire registered by SBOE in 2003.

Picture of this is at
http://sborchid.com/OrchidOfTheDay/S...endidSpire.htm

Those of you in the know, is this a worthy cross? Sounds like a lot
of fun. The registered cross shows the seed parent as the
Schomburgkia. If I get the change should I try it both ways?

I couldn't even give these away.

Sure you could! (waving hand for attention...)

Diana

Diana Kulaga wrote:
I couldn't even give these away.


Sure you could! (waving hand for attention...)

Diana


I meant if I _had_ them... If I don't have a plant, it is almost a
certainty that they will be more popular than free beer.

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

Interesting perspective from everyone. This is why I bounced this idea past
all the nice people on this newsgroup.

I agree that this would not be a small plant to see bloom. I do like the
flowers in the SBOE picture. We had a speaker recently at our society
meeting who wanted everything crossed with Schom. He will even plate the
seeds and give the pod owner a flask of finished plants.

I may try it just to see if I get the pod to set but I don't have any plans
to retire on the income from this cross.

Great Discussion everyone. The alternate opinions are of good value.

Good Growing,
Gene

Diana.....come and take away all my duplicate plants so I have room for
more!

Gene Schurg wrote:
Interesting perspective from everyone. This is why I bounced this idea past
all the nice people on this newsgroup.

I agree that this would not be a small plant to see bloom. I do like the
flowers in the SBOE picture. We had a speaker recently at our society
meeting who wanted everything crossed with Schom. He will even plate the
seeds and give the pod owner a flask of finished plants.

I may try it just to see if I get the pod to set but I don't have any plans
to retire on the income from this cross.

Great Discussion everyone. The alternate opinions are of good value.

Good Growing,
Gene

Diana.....come and take away all my duplicate plants so I have room for
more!



Well, Gene, you may have started something.

I don't mean your cross.

I went out to the GH and next thing I knew I was pulling pollinia out of
one flower and putting them on another.

I'm so excited! My first hybrids!

My friend Marilyn Light gave me some info that I'll share

"Some, all or none of your crosses may take. If the ovary yellows
immediately then the cross didn't take. Because pollen must first
germinate then yield pollen tubes which grow down to a developing ovary,
fertilization may take weeks to months to happen. Meanwhile, the ovary
stays green and will enlarge. If fertilization is impossible, then
embryos will not form and the ovary will yellow and drop. If the cross
is compatible, the ovary will continue to enlarge as the seeds mature.


You can monitor seed development by measuring the ovary width at the
same place every week. The width will increase until fertilization
happens, pause for awhile then resume enlargement until the seeds are
mature. Then the fruit will ripen for awhile before splitting."

Pretty cool, huh!

K Barrett

Diana.....come and take away all my duplicate plants so I have room for
more!

Just being silly, Gene; we are so crowded here. And yet, as Rob would say,
there is always room for one more orchid.........

Diana

KB,

Isn't it fun? I've done a couple of species selfs but nothing hybrid. Last
Monday Al suggested that I try to self a Phal zebrina of mine. I don't know
if it took yet. I pollenated two of the flowers and the nectary has closed
up around the pollentia. I feel like a little bumble bee!

I find it interesting to see this happen.

Good luck with your cross.

Gene



"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Interesting perspective from everyone. This is why I bounced this idea
past
all the nice people on this newsgroup.

I agree that this would not be a small plant to see bloom. I do like
the
flowers in the SBOE picture. We had a speaker recently at our society
meeting who wanted everything crossed with Schom. He will even plate
the
seeds and give the pod owner a flask of finished plants.

I may try it just to see if I get the pod to set but I don't have any
plans
to retire on the income from this cross.

Great Discussion everyone. The alternate opinions are of good value.

Good Growing,
Gene

Diana.....come and take away all my duplicate plants so I have room for
more!



Well, Gene, you may have started something.

I don't mean your cross.

I went out to the GH and next thing I knew I was pulling pollinia out of
one flower and putting them on another.

I'm so excited! My first hybrids!

My friend Marilyn Light gave me some info that I'll share

"Some, all or none of your crosses may take. If the ovary yellows
immediately then the cross didn't take. Because pollen must first
germinate then yield pollen tubes which grow down to a developing ovary,
fertilization may take weeks to months to happen. Meanwhile, the ovary
stays green and will enlarge. If fertilization is impossible, then
embryos will not form and the ovary will yellow and drop. If the cross
is compatible, the ovary will continue to enlarge as the seeds mature.


You can monitor seed development by measuring the ovary width at the
same place every week. The width will increase until fertilization
happens, pause for awhile then resume enlargement until the seeds are
mature. Then the fruit will ripen for awhile before splitting."

Pretty cool, huh!

K Barrett

Darn....I've been waiting for you to show up and take them away!

Actually, I was able to clear out about 30-35 Brassias/Oncids at the show
last week. I've spent the last two days trying to get everything in a place
where it will be happy until next May. I think I may have it but I can't
buy another plant. This kills me since I have a trip to Orlando planned and
of course I have to visit Tropic 1 and Krull Smith.

I hate winter. You folks who live in tropical zones have it so good.

Good growing,
Gene



"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
.. .
Diana.....come and take away all my duplicate plants so I have room for
more!

Just being silly, Gene; we are so crowded here. And yet, as Rob would say,
there is always room for one more orchid.........

Diana