It is naive to think you can talk about this subject without politics. And
do not talk to me about strange bed fellows, the current administration is
calling the shots backed by a congress controlled by his party. The head of
the Dept of Ag is a member of the administration's cabinet. Those are
simple facts.

It is also naive to think that allowing the importation of in pot plants
happens in a vacuum. Trade arrangements are made. 'You allow in pot
plants, we back off steel restrictions.' We do not see the deals, just the
results.

As for level playing field, the world is not flat. Government paid
construction costs and training, government sponsored low interest loans,
and tax free periods all put bumps (and mountains) on the field. As most of
these imported plants will be shipped on government owned airlines, it is
not really even a single playing field. I expect moving $2B worth of in pot
orchids means an annual $400M business for the exporting countries'
national airlines. The Dutch have never consider the field level because US
growers do not pay the same taxes on heating oil as charged on diesel fuel.
I have heard the Canadian government subsidizes natural gas for their
growers. It goes on and on.

As for Taiwanese plants, I would not get too attached to them. I expect
Taiwan's reign on the top will be a short one. The Taiwanese government is
not the only government getting into the game. The Chinese government has
also made a commitment to orchids and plants are already starting to flow
out of that pipe line. I recently got an merriclone offering from the main
land which undercut Taiwan prices by a larger percent than Taiwan undercut
domestic prices. Labor in Taiwan is $600 a month while in China it is more
like $100 a month. As for China, they would do best to watch their backs.
Labor in Vietnam is more like $30 a month and I expect they will be playing
a larger role in the game over the next few years. I do not know Thailand's
wage structure, but it seems that they are also about to get in the game in
a big way as well.











"David Edgley" wrote in message
...
For the purposes of this newsgroup, I have no political inclination and
would appreciate others keeping politics out of the discussion.

However, if someone were propose intelligent reform of CITES as it relates
to orchids, I would be sorely tempted to abandon my position.

David

"J. Del Col" wrote in message
m...
(janet_a) wrote in message
. com...
August 24, 2004
Orchids Flourish on Taiwanese Production Line
By KEITH BRADSHER



That's the way capitalism works, folks.

Free trade is the answer to everything; just ask George Bush.


J. Del Col

The point about trade not happening in a vaccuum is a good one. I'm sure
something along the lines of mutual rubbing of backs occurred.

I can't see where bringing in already potted plants makes economic sense.
They are so huge and bulky. You get so many more of them in a flask in a
much smaller space, no? Does it really cost so much more to finish them
here?

*G* Well I guess it must, else this wouldn't be happening! LOL!

K Barrett

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
It is naive to think you can talk about this subject without politics.
And
do not talk to me about strange bed fellows, the current administration is
calling the shots backed by a congress controlled by his party. The head
of
the Dept of Ag is a member of the administration's cabinet. Those are
simple facts.

It is also naive to think that allowing the importation of in pot plants
happens in a vacuum. Trade arrangements are made. 'You allow in pot
plants, we back off steel restrictions.' We do not see the deals, just
the
results.

As for level playing field, the world is not flat. Government paid
construction costs and training, government sponsored low interest loans,
and tax free periods all put bumps (and mountains) on the field. As most
of
these imported plants will be shipped on government owned airlines, it is
not really even a single playing field. I expect moving $2B worth of in
pot
orchids means an annual $400M business for the exporting countries'
national airlines. The Dutch have never consider the field level because
US
growers do not pay the same taxes on heating oil as charged on diesel
fuel.
I have heard the Canadian government subsidizes natural gas for their
growers. It goes on and on.

As for Taiwanese plants, I would not get too attached to them. I expect
Taiwan's reign on the top will be a short one. The Taiwanese government
is
not the only government getting into the game. The Chinese government has
also made a commitment to orchids and plants are already starting to flow
out of that pipe line. I recently got an merriclone offering from the
main
land which undercut Taiwan prices by a larger percent than Taiwan undercut
domestic prices. Labor in Taiwan is $600 a month while in China it is
more
like $100 a month. As for China, they would do best to watch their backs.
Labor in Vietnam is more like $30 a month and I expect they will be
playing
a larger role in the game over the next few years. I do not know
Thailand's
wage structure, but it seems that they are also about to get in the game
in
a big way as well.











"David Edgley" wrote in message
...
For the purposes of this newsgroup, I have no political inclination and
would appreciate others keeping politics out of the discussion.

However, if someone were propose intelligent reform of CITES as it
relates
to orchids, I would be sorely tempted to abandon my position.

David

"J. Del Col" wrote in message
m...
(janet_a) wrote in message
. com...
August 24, 2004
Orchids Flourish on Taiwanese Production Line
By KEITH BRADSHER



That's the way capitalism works, folks.

Free trade is the answer to everything; just ask George Bush.


J. Del Col

I brought back a couple of hundred phals last fall in spike on the plane from Taiwan with me, not much luggage, no bugs and have done well.

Hi Group,

Just another observation, the NY Times article indicates change is being
considered. Actually, the change is effective and in place, since June 6, 2004.


I can't see where bringing in already potted plants makes economic sense.
They are so huge and bulky. You get so many more of them in a flask in a
much smaller space, no? Does it really cost so much more to finish them
here?

I wouldn't mind having plants imported bare root and potted up here.

That was the method. All imported orchid plants were brought in bare root,
repotted in approved media, and grown in US of A for four months prior to sale,
then inspected. (Except for importations in coconut chips or coir, and attached
to tree fern) It is a time and money factor.

Import an in bloom plant and you save labor (unpotting and repotting),
greenhouse space (in front door, out the back door to the contract stores). The
four month in US of A growing period and inspection also disappears, as well as
losses due to cultural problems.

A flask, yes has many plants, but growing time is required. IMHO, the plus is
the plants, from the flasks, may adapt better to US of A conditions, than a
blooming plant.

This not new Q37, as the rules are commonly known, has been under attack for
many years. Currently there are a number genera of plants, for which Q37 has
been suspended. Quick to mind is Begonias, African Violets, Peperomia, some
ferns. There are others, but I forget them now. The authority for some of these
exemptions dates back to 1990, or earlier. Heck the exemption petition from
Taiwan was in 1997.

The USDA documents regarding Q37 being suspended are interesting. Dating back
to 1998, USDA indicates there are 41 Phal growers in CA, 41 Phal growers in FL,
and 101 Phal growers in the other 48 states, and economic impact on these
growers is unknown, but expected to substantial. However, they do note that
Hawaii is the leading importer of bare root Phals, for potted plant sales.

For some reason the Phal Q37 pages on USDA and APHIS websites have gone down
today. Orchidists must be getting interested.

Cheers,

Jerry and Karen

Camp Lot A Noise Tropicals (C. L. A. N.) http://www.clanorchids.com
Orchid Species, Hybrids, Supplies, Photos and Books
Chat (941) 352-2483 Fax: (941) 351-2483 X 123 Order Only 1-800-351-CITE

Wow!! Much here to ruminate on... Thanks for posting and if i don't reply
immediately tis because I'm still thinking.

K Barrett

"Clanorchid" wrote in message
...
Hi Group,

Just another observation, the NY Times article indicates change is being
considered. Actually, the change is effective and in place, since June 6,
2004.


I can't see where bringing in already potted plants makes economic sense.
They are so huge and bulky. You get so many more of them in a flask in a
much smaller space, no? Does it really cost so much more to finish them
here?

I wouldn't mind having plants imported bare root and potted up here.

That was the method. All imported orchid plants were brought in bare root,
repotted in approved media, and grown in US of A for four months prior to
sale,
then inspected. (Except for importations in coconut chips or coir, and
attached
to tree fern) It is a time and money factor.

Import an in bloom plant and you save labor (unpotting and repotting),
greenhouse space (in front door, out the back door to the contract
stores). The
four month in US of A growing period and inspection also disappears, as
well as
losses due to cultural problems.

A flask, yes has many plants, but growing time is required. IMHO, the plus
is
the plants, from the flasks, may adapt better to US of A conditions, than
a
blooming plant.

This not new Q37, as the rules are commonly known, has been under attack
for
many years. Currently there are a number genera of plants, for which Q37
has
been suspended. Quick to mind is Begonias, African Violets, Peperomia,
some
ferns. There are others, but I forget them now. The authority for some of
these
exemptions dates back to 1990, or earlier. Heck the exemption petition
from
Taiwan was in 1997.

The USDA documents regarding Q37 being suspended are interesting. Dating
back
to 1998, USDA indicates there are 41 Phal growers in CA, 41 Phal growers
in FL,
and 101 Phal growers in the other 48 states, and economic impact on these
growers is unknown, but expected to substantial. However, they do note
that
Hawaii is the leading importer of bare root Phals, for potted plant sales.

For some reason the Phal Q37 pages on USDA and APHIS websites have gone
down
today. Orchidists must be getting interested.

Cheers,

Jerry and Karen

Camp Lot A Noise Tropicals (C. L. A. N.) http://www.clanorchids.com
Orchid Species, Hybrids, Supplies, Photos and Books
Chat (941) 352-2483 Fax: (941) 351-2483 X 123 Order Only 1-800-351-CITE

The point about trade not happening in a vaccuum is a good one. I'm sure
something along the lines of mutual rubbing of backs occurred.

I can't see where bringing in already potted plants makes economic sense.
They are so huge and bulky. You get so many more of them in a flask in a
much smaller space, no? Does it really cost so much more to finish them
here?

*G* Well I guess it must, else this wouldn't be happening! LOL!

K Barrett

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
It is naive to think you can talk about this subject without politics.
And
do not talk to me about strange bed fellows, the current administration is
calling the shots backed by a congress controlled by his party. The head
of
the Dept of Ag is a member of the administration's cabinet. Those are
simple facts.

It is also naive to think that allowing the importation of in pot plants
happens in a vacuum. Trade arrangements are made. 'You allow in pot
plants, we back off steel restrictions.' We do not see the deals, just
the
results.

As for level playing field, the world is not flat. Government paid
construction costs and training, government sponsored low interest loans,
and tax free periods all put bumps (and mountains) on the field. As most
of
these imported plants will be shipped on government owned airlines, it is
not really even a single playing field. I expect moving $2B worth of in
pot
orchids means an annual $400M business for the exporting countries'
national airlines. The Dutch have never consider the field level because
US
growers do not pay the same taxes on heating oil as charged on diesel
fuel.
I have heard the Canadian government subsidizes natural gas for their
growers. It goes on and on.

As for Taiwanese plants, I would not get too attached to them. I expect
Taiwan's reign on the top will be a short one. The Taiwanese government
is
not the only government getting into the game. The Chinese government has
also made a commitment to orchids and plants are already starting to flow
out of that pipe line. I recently got an merriclone offering from the
main
land which undercut Taiwan prices by a larger percent than Taiwan undercut
domestic prices. Labor in Taiwan is $600 a month while in China it is
more
like $100 a month. As for China, they would do best to watch their backs.
Labor in Vietnam is more like $30 a month and I expect they will be
playing
a larger role in the game over the next few years. I do not know
Thailand's
wage structure, but it seems that they are also about to get in the game
in
a big way as well.











"David Edgley" wrote in message
...
For the purposes of this newsgroup, I have no political inclination and
would appreciate others keeping politics out of the discussion.

However, if someone were propose intelligent reform of CITES as it
relates
to orchids, I would be sorely tempted to abandon my position.

David

"J. Del Col" wrote in message
m...
(janet_a) wrote in message
. com...
August 24, 2004
Orchids Flourish on Taiwanese Production Line
By KEITH BRADSHER



That's the way capitalism works, folks.

Free trade is the answer to everything; just ask George Bush.


J. Del Col