Farm1 wrote:

I had a really good experience this year with horse poop and leaves from
exotic trees/weisteria spread on one of my veg beds which has rotten soil.

I have found a fabulous non ending supply of poops already piled and all I
have to do is shovel 'em into the back of my truck. I weeded and watered
this veg bed, threw a load of poops on top and then topped that with a load
of autumn leaves (I did this in about early summer as the leaves had just
lain in a quiet corner doing nuttin all of winter - I knew summer here would
be a stinker so didn't even try to do anything in that particular rotten
bed). It got infrequent watering (prolly about once a month) and I've only
recently scraped the leaves off and dug it over and planted it with all
sorts of veg (bok choi, broccoli, English spinach, silverbeet, 2 types of
lettuce and some space left over for succession plantings of more spinach
which we love). It is full of worms and it's very ahrd to credit the
difference in the quality of the soil.

Thats hoss poop for ya.
On Saturday's we have an ABC radio, gardening, phone in, talk back
programme and the "experts" on there say horse manure is (Emphasis this
bit loudly over the microphone) Absolutely no good for gardens ....

Any poop is good poop in my book

I think my experiences with this bed and some of the other observations
we've made this summer is the reason why I've been wittering on about shade.
I've written before about my water repellent soil and given how little
watering this bed got (and I know it was water reppellent at some stages as
I checked) and I've used horse poop before (but not in quite the same way)
I'm wondering about he effects of shading the soil with both the poops and
the leaves. The worms just got on with it and could operate in the dark. I
dunno perhaps I'm just ranting, but I do believe that the dark and the mulch
may have been more of a help than I could have ever thought. I was sooooooo
****ed of by this bed (and the rest of the garden in general) and soooooo
****ed off by the sort of summer we had (hot and dry, hot and dry and windy,
hot and dry etc etc etc) that I far less than I normally would have. I had
odd bursts of activity in between severe ****edoffedness attacks but I am
now very impressed with this bed and it is probably better than any others
that I have.


Regarding the trees/shade and wind protection ...you're rushing me,:-)


Sorry, but I have begun to think that it is ratehr important :-))

Me too but ya workin me to a frazzle ...


Waht about moving both of those plans up a bit? They could certainly help
in your soil improvement plans given that both need to be fed but all output
goes back to the soil. (And realistically they are both more productive
than horses but don't tell your missus I said that :-))

I will tell her if ya don't stop sounding like her :-)

I need to give the chooks a run where they can do most good but have a
movable (by 2 peeps preferably)chook protection abode that will let me
give em a run to different areas. .... but I'll get a round tuit ...honest.


I've got a recipe for prickly pear jam somewhere................

I would have been disappointed if you hadn't :-)


I love quandongs. I think they are one of the most superb fruits - just
wish I could get a plant or 10.

Ya know they are supposed to be planted with another plant? not one of
the ones on the block next door to us have another plant anywhere near
em, or at least not near enough to suggest the seed had been planted
alongside the roots of another plant which I thought was a bit strange
.... maybe they killed the other plant off by some parasitic feeding off
of it ????

Pete

"pete" wrote in message
On Saturday's we have an ABC radio, gardening, phone in, talk back
programme and the "experts" on there say horse manure is (Emphasis this
bit loudly over the microphone) Absolutely no good for gardens ....

I suspect that in terms of fertility it isn't much use (chook or cow being
better) but in terms of soil amendment for friability I think it's wonderful

Any poop is good poop in my book

Yup.


Sorry, but I have begun to think that it is ratehr important :-))

Me too but ya workin me to a frazzle ...

Sorry. I'll stop.

I love quandongs. I think they are one of the most superb fruits - just
wish I could get a plant or 10.

Ya know they are supposed to be planted with another plant?

Do you mean another quandong plant? But no, I didn't know that they needed
to be planted near anything.

Farm1 wrote:
"pete" wrote in message

On Saturday's we have an ABC radio, gardening, phone in, talk back
programme and the "experts" on there say horse manure is (Emphasis this
bit loudly over the microphone) Absolutely no good for gardens ....


I suspect that in terms of fertility it isn't much use (chook or cow being
better) but in terms of soil amendment for friability I think it's wonderful


Well I'm finding that it works pretty well on soil that without it would
grow nothing, though maybe that same soil would be fertile to a degree
if it wasn't saline ... which sort of proves your statement above about
friability and mine earlier about texture ...which no doubt if we tried
hard enough we could prove are the same thing :-) ....

I find chook poo is great as a Nitrogen fertiliser but is lacking in
Phosphorous and Potassium whereas most of the others have a more rounded
concentration of all 3, I find my brassica's go purple at plant out
time using just horse manure, but as it breaks down and the soil
improves they grow like wildfire, maybe the Nitrogen is unavailable
early on in the process ? or maybe its just that brassica's need more
Nitrogen than hoss poo can supply at that particular time, I'd always
assumed it was the richness or freshness that was causing the purple
colour and as ages things improve.

I always thought hoss poo was lacking in Nitrogen but lately I've been
thinking that it has enough for it to be considered a good all round
fertiliser if its incorporated with enough soil to allow the growth of
beneficial bacteria, fungi and insects to break it down sufficiently to
"allow" it to release those nutrients for plants to use when they need
it.



I love quandongs. I think they are one of the most superb fruits - just
wish I could get a plant or 10.

Ya know they are supposed to be planted with another plant?


Do you mean another quandong plant? But no, I didn't know that they needed
to be planted near anything.

They do well with lower growing stuff ... native grasses or low shrubs,
they actually feed from the roots of the host plant.

This link may be useful http://farrer.riv.csu.edu.au/ASGAP/s-acu.html

The Quandongs near us are growing in pure Shellgrit ..old stuff that's
been there probably thousands of years, it's broken down to basically
nothing more than rough sand grain size and of course has excellent
drainage but probably little else and our low rainfall doesn't help,
though if we had higher rainfall maybe it would be worse for any
nutrient would be leached through quicker.

I think dry and very well drained is the key for established Quandongs
...though young plants must be kept moist to get em started.

Ya see how edumacational this group is?

Pete

pete wrote:

I always thought hoss poo was lacking in Nitrogen but lately I've been
thinking that it has enough for it to be considered a good all round
fertiliser if its incorporated with enough soil to allow the growth of
beneficial bacteria, fungi and insects to break it down sufficiently to
"allow" it to release those nutrients for plants to use when they need it.


I was searching for Quandong stuff and got sidetracked and found this
site which deals with mycorrhiza fungi.

http://www.ffp.csiro.au/research/mycorrhiza/intro.html

Which I found particularly interesting cos I reckon the fungi I am
finding in the horse poo enhanced rows (I showed the fungi in one pic on
my web site) are the reason things are growing.

Also this site http://www.global-garden.com.au/burnley/may97dte.htm

....below are a couple of quotes form that site


" Fungi are organisms consists of very fine filaments called hyphae that
can spread for metres through the soil taking up nutrients. Plants in a
mycorrhizal relationship have increased uptake of nitrogen, phosphorus,
micronutrients and water due to the large surface area of the fungal
hyphae. The result of this increased uptake is larger and healthier
plants. Unlike plants, fungi do not contain chlorophyll and therefore
need a source of energy. In return for providing nutrients to the plant
the fungi receive sugars."

and

"Soil chemistry and structure

Mycorrhiza can improve plant growth and reduce the need for large
amounts of fertiliser but have other benefits as well. Mycorrhizal fungi
can influence soil chemistry and structure. They produce an array of
chemicals such as enzymes and organic acids that are secreted into the
soil. These chemicals break down otherwise unavailable minerals that are
then absorbed by the fungus and transferred to the plant. The structure
of the soil is improved by the presence of mycorrhizal hyphae as they
spread through the soil binding particles and reducing soil erosion. The
presence of mycorrhiza and the production of the chemical residues help
to form stable soil aggregates that bind organic matter and associated
nutrients, improving soil structure and stability"

I knew I was on the right path with the soil Structure thing but I had
no idea of the proper names for what was happening.

Hope you find it as interesting as I did ....if not ... if it's actually
very boring..... it just proves what a nerd I am dunnit?

Pete

"pete" wrote in message

I was searching for Quandong stuff and got sidetracked and found this
site which deals with mycorrhiza fungi.

I knew I was on the right path with the soil Structure thing but I had
no idea of the proper names for what was happening.

Most interesting. I do know however that mushroom fungi has a nasty effect
on grass leaving the spot where the fungi is as bear as a badgers bum.

I have huge fairy rings in our "lawn" and even when the rest of the grass is
lush in spring, I can see where the fariy rings are (I'm not going to do
anything about it though because I can have a meal of lovely fresh mushrooms
just from wandering round the lawn)

"pete" wrote in message
Farm1 wrote:

I suspect that in terms of fertility it isn't much use (chook or cow
being
better) but in terms of soil amendment for friability I think it's
wonderful


Well I'm finding that it works pretty well on soil that without it would
grow nothing, though maybe that same soil would be fertile to a degree
if it wasn't saline ... which sort of proves your statement above about
friability and mine earlier about texture ...which no doubt if we tried
hard enough we could prove are the same thing :-) ....

Prolly :-))

I always thought hoss poo was lacking in Nitrogen but lately I've been
thinking that it has enough for it to be considered a good all round
fertiliser if its incorporated with enough soil to allow the growth of
beneficial bacteria, fungi and insects to break it down sufficiently to
"allow" it to release those nutrients for plants to use when they need
it.

I like to use it with the odd sprinkle of Dynamic Lifter added now and then.
I also add the odd bit of cow manure when I can be bothered to go out with
my wheelbarrow (whcih is when it isn't stinking hot)

I've come to like dynamic Lifter a lot as it really seems to give the plants
a bit of a kick along but I don't use much of it. I do tend to use a bit of
liquid "Black jack" and the odd bit of seaweed emulsion but both of these
tend to be as and when I remember them rather than as a regular thing.


Do you mean another quandong plant? But no, I didn't know that they
needed
to be planted near anything.

They do well with lower growing stuff ... native grasses or low shrubs,
they actually feed from the roots of the host plant.

This link may be useful http://farrer.riv.csu.edu.au/ASGAP/s-acu.html

Most interesting - thanks for the link. I'd love to get some so may try
with some fo the rare palant nurseries this winter.

Ya see how edumacational this group is?

I've always known that :-))

Farm1 wrote:
"pete" wrote in message

Farm1 wrote:


I suspect that in terms of fertility it isn't much use (chook or cow

being

better) but in terms of soil amendment for friability I think it's

wonderful

Well I'm finding that it works pretty well on soil that without it would
grow nothing, though maybe that same soil would be fertile to a degree
if it wasn't saline ... which sort of proves your statement above about
friability and mine earlier about texture ...which no doubt if we tried
hard enough we could prove are the same thing :-) ....


Prolly :-))


I always thought hoss poo was lacking in Nitrogen but lately I've been
thinking that it has enough for it to be considered a good all round
fertiliser if its incorporated with enough soil to allow the growth of
beneficial bacteria, fungi and insects to break it down sufficiently to
"allow" it to release those nutrients for plants to use when they need
it.


I like to use it with the odd sprinkle of Dynamic Lifter added now and then.
I also add the odd bit of cow manure when I can be bothered to go out with
my wheelbarrow (whcih is when it isn't stinking hot)

I've come to like dynamic Lifter a lot as it really seems to give the plants
a bit of a kick along but I don't use much of it. I do tend to use a bit of
liquid "Black jack" and the odd bit of seaweed emulsion but both of these
tend to be as and when I remember them rather than as a regular thing.



Do you mean another quandong plant? But no, I didn't know that they

needed

to be planted near anything.

They do well with lower growing stuff ... native grasses or low shrubs,
they actually feed from the roots of the host plant.

This link may be useful http://farrer.riv.csu.edu.au/ASGAP/s-acu.html


Most interesting - thanks for the link. I'd love to get some so may try
with some fo the rare palant nurseries this winter.


Ya see how edumacational this group is?


I've always known that :-))

Sorry I'm a bit incommunicado at the moment Fran ... I have a new
grandson who is taking all my attention

I can't wait to get him in the garden, his mum says I have to use one of
them sling thingies ... papoose?? to carry him around while I'm
planting stuff ...being the sensitive new age guy that I am, I just hope
he doesn't mind the fag burns on his forehead ....

Pete