All he needs is a pair of rose-colord glasses.


"Iris Cohen" wrote in message
...
We are the downtrodden and dispossesed, the self-torturing, the
disenfranchised convicts, drug and alcohol addicts, the unemployed and
unemployable.

I don't know who Walter is, but you have a valid point. I don't disagree.
However, this is a botany newsgroup. If you really want to do something
about
your situation, you might contact the American Horticultural Therapy
Association, http://www.ahta.org/.
Gardening and other plant related activities have a proven record of
changing
the lives of hitherto hopeless people.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

All he needs is a pair of rose-colord glasses.


"Iris Cohen" wrote in message
...
We are the downtrodden and dispossesed, the self-torturing, the
disenfranchised convicts, drug and alcohol addicts, the unemployed and
unemployable.

I don't know who Walter is, but you have a valid point. I don't disagree.
However, this is a botany newsgroup. If you really want to do something
about
your situation, you might contact the American Horticultural Therapy
Association, http://www.ahta.org/.
Gardening and other plant related activities have a proven record of
changing
the lives of hitherto hopeless people.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

(Iris Cohen) wrote in message ...
Now I think that this discussion is getting very silly and descending to racist
stereotypes. Exactly the "us vs. them" mentality that the original writer
decried. Interesting that we haven't heard from any black botanists.
Yes, and a bit sad too. A few years ago I went to George Washington
Carver's home, sat in his chair, walked in his garden, admired his
living persimmon fence, and sought to enter his vision of life. -- Do
you know any white people named Washington who lived after the
president (precedent)?

The tragedy of Lee Boyd Malvo is a good example of the problem. He would have
made a productive citizen if the right mentor had established a relationship
with him at an early age. Instead, he got hooked up with a demon who turned him
into a monster. And the demon himself probably had a similar history. And it
has nothing directly to do with color. Remember, the majority of hopeless cases
the writer was talking about are white.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Ironically, we do agree on a number of points and there is much to
like and respect about you. Try gamboling in the sci. physics meadow
for a while and you might start to get a handle on that pedantic hen.

-Gaiawar

Maybe we should send them all to Australia?

They should feel at home there.

BTW, its not that "One out of four African-Americans between about 15 and 45
is involved with the criminal justice system", its that number of
African-American males of that age have a criminal record involving violent
crime and have made themselves unhirable for life because they mistakenly
thought it would be cool to be "gangastas". Who's fault is that?


Iris Cohen wrote in message
...
All he needs is a pair of rose-colored glasses.

I don't know about Australia, but the problems he mentioned are extremely
serious in this country. One out of four African-Americans between about
15 and
45 is involved with the criminal justice system. Bush's much-touted No
Child
Left Behind law is only half funded.
About 30 years ago there was a tremendous push to get mental patients out
of
the large state hospitals and back into the community. The only trouble
was
that nowhere near enough money or authority was put into seeing that the
patients received adequate care and supervision. The result is that our
homeless shelters and prisons are full of mentally ill people who are not
receiving proper care.
What has that to do with botany or AHTA? I will never forget 20 years ago
when
I was involved in a prison literacy program, I worked with some young men
who
were learning disabled, most of them from the slums. One day I brought in
some
spring flowers, and labeled them in English and Spanish. One of the men,
about
21, told me he had NEVER BEFORE SEEN A REAL FLOWER. Some of the state
prison
systems, notably in Florida, have had some very successful horticulture
programs.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Native Africans have made it clear time after time that African-Americans
are not welcome to their countries. To them, African-Americans are
"coloreds", that is, they are of mixed ancestry, and not genuine African at
all. They would be far more severely persecuted that they falsely believe
they are in the Americas. Ironic, isn't it?

A few years ago, under Black rule, Stevie Wonder had attempted to play his
music in South Africa and was refused entry into the country.


Peter Jason wrote in message
...
Why not back to Africa, from whence they came?

OK, I'll say it........
It's time to license people to have children, for two reasons:
1/ The world is not underpopulated.
2/ The abysmal level of care shown to children by many parents.

In the good old days 'marriage' was such a license because of the three
things necessary for the raising of children, vis:

1/ Money,
2/ More money,
3/ Still more money.

Every hardworking taxpayer has a right to demand his money is spent
efficiently, and also...
Marriage is a business - not a love-fest.




"Cereoid-UR12-" wrote in message
om...
Maybe we should send them all to Australia?

They should feel at home there.

BTW, its not that "One out of four African-Americans between about 15
and
45
is involved with the criminal justice system", its that number of
African-American males of that age have a criminal record involving
violent
crime and have made themselves unhirable for life because they
mistakenly
thought it would be cool to be "gangastas". Who's fault is that?


Iris Cohen wrote in message
...
All he needs is a pair of rose-colored glasses.

I don't know about Australia, but the problems he mentioned are
extremely
serious in this country. One out of four African-Americans between
about
15 and
45 is involved with the criminal justice system. Bush's much-touted No
Child
Left Behind law is only half funded.
About 30 years ago there was a tremendous push to get mental patients
out
of
the large state hospitals and back into the community. The only
trouble
was
that nowhere near enough money or authority was put into seeing that
the
patients received adequate care and supervision. The result is that
our
homeless shelters and prisons are full of mentally ill people who are
not
receiving proper care.
What has that to do with botany or AHTA? I will never forget 20 years
ago
when
I was involved in a prison literacy program, I worked with some young
men
who
were learning disabled, most of them from the slums. One day I brought
in
some
spring flowers, and labeled them in English and Spanish. One of the
men,
about
21, told me he had NEVER BEFORE SEEN A REAL FLOWER. Some of the state
prison
systems, notably in Florida, have had some very successful
horticulture
programs.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the
oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Actually, the Aussies would be deported to the English prisons from whence
their ancestors came.


Iris Cohen wrote in message
...
Why not back to Africa, from whence they came?

If you follow that logically, every Caucasian wrongdoer in Australia would
be
deported to Europe.

It's time to license people to have children, for two reasons:
1/ The world is not underpopulated.
2/ The abysmal level of care shown to children by many parents.

It might not be a bad idea, but impossible to enforce. Look at the
disapproval
China has been getting from some quarters, just for trying to limit their
population growth.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

The point is that these sociopaths have absolutely no respect for women, no
matter how well-meaning they are. She did not go into a tough neighborhood,
she had brought the punks into a recently yuppiefied section to do labor in
construction to develop a skill. That was something that was completely lost
on their addled simplistic criminal brains. They had written themselves off
as hopeless their entire lives. Their self-destructive hateful programming
is too firmly entrenched to simply be overcome by a few acts of kindness. To
them, that is weakness and something to be exploited and destroyed. Even
strict military training wouldn't help them straighten up. They wouldn't
even be worthy of soylent green. That they would actually go as far as and
steal religious artifacts from churches and rape nuns show how far gone they
are.


Iris Cohen wrote in message
...
A few years ago, there was a well-meaning, naive white woman just like
you,

murdered her

Such tragedies do happen. I assure you I am not nearly so naive. Projects
in
the inner city, or anywhere else, need to be properly organized &
supervised.
People who want to help should do so within the framework of existing
structure. That is why I suggest that they do so through the Salvation
Army,
scouting, community centers, Habitat for Humanity, etc. Of course people
who go
into a tough neighborhood alone are asking for trouble. Some of these same
undersocialized young men, reached young enough and in an appropriate
setting,
are salvageable. Don't write them all off.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

First racist and now sexist!!!

Can anything profound ever come from somebody who is so naive that they can
be suckered into getting webtv?

Why don't you just get it over with and strap dynamite to yourself and blow
up an Iraqi embassy somewhere?


Gaiawar wrote in message
om...
(Iris Cohen) wrote in message
...
Now I think that this discussion is getting very silly and descending to
racist
stereotypes. Exactly the "us vs. them" mentality that the original
writer
decried. Interesting that we haven't heard from any black botanists.
Yes, and a bit sad too. A few years ago I went to George Washington
Carver's home, sat in his chair, walked in his garden, admired his
living persimmon fence, and sought to enter his vision of life. -- Do
you know any white people named Washington who lived after the
president (precedent)?

The tragedy of Lee Boyd Malvo is a good example of the problem. He would
have
made a productive citizen if the right mentor had established a
relationship
with him at an early age. Instead, he got hooked up with a demon who
turned him
into a monster. And the demon himself probably had a similar history.
And it
has nothing directly to do with color. Remember, the majority of
hopeless cases
the writer was talking about are white.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the
oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Ironically, we do agree on a number of points and there is much to
like and respect about you. Try gamboling in the sci. physics meadow
for a while and you might start to get a handle on that pedantic hen.

-Gaiawar

I agree that most of them did, and the ancestors of these are still in
prison, or work on the wharves and drive big trucks.
But a select few embrace the path of sweetness and light and take an
interest in botany.

"Cereoid-UR12-" wrote in message
. com...
Actually, the Aussies would be deported to the English prisons from whence
their ancestors came.


Iris Cohen wrote in message
...
Why not back to Africa, from whence they came?

If you follow that logically, every Caucasian wrongdoer in Australia
would
be
deported to Europe.

It's time to license people to have children, for two reasons:
1/ The world is not underpopulated.
2/ The abysmal level of care shown to children by many parents.

It might not be a bad idea, but impossible to enforce. Look at the
disapproval
China has been getting from some quarters, just for trying to limit
their
population growth.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the
oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Now I think that this discussion is getting very silly and descending to racist
stereotypes. Exactly the "us vs. them" mentality that the original writer
decried. Interesting that we haven't heard from any black botanists.
The tragedy of Lee Boyd Malvo is a good example of the problem. He would have
made a productive citizen if the right mentor had established a relationship
with him at an early age. Instead, he got hooked up with a demon who turned him
into a monster. And the demon himself probably had a similar history. And it
has nothing directly to do with color. Remember, the majority of hopeless cases
the writer was talking about are white.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Dear Judges, Lawyers, Policemen, Guards, Counselors, Taxpayers, et. al.,

We are here. Like it or not, for good or bad, we are here. Who are we? We are the
downtrodden and dispossesed, the self-torturing, the disenfranchised convicts,
drug and alcohol addicts, the unemployed and unemployable. We are the children of
poverty, financial and spiritual. We have and will have children of our own,
grandchildren too. We are ex-cons, uninsured, homeless, of many colors and speaking
many tongues. We are the enemy in what has become a domestic war against ourselves.

And who are you? You who like the tough talk of Tough on Crime? You who watch as
budgets are cut in education and health care while you militarize a police force?
Bullet-proof vests, automatic weapons, helicopters, tanks, robots ... the
testosterone is oozing through the streets, more prisons, longer sentences, tighten
the belt, spartan conditions, task forces, gang units, gun courts. And what is there
to show for it? Unemployent stays low because half the population oversees those
"out of the workforce", the dregs, the rabble, the enemy? Please tell me there is a
deeper reason. Do you feel safer? More humane? More like a cohesive society with a
shared sense of purpose, who can identify Us and Them? Do you live in a gated
community or gentrified neighborhood? By the way, have you read the Declaration of
Independence and US Constitution - or do you only know the first phrases?

It's about time we got together. Please know that I have yet to meet a convict who
wants their child to be a thief, an addict, a dealer, a prostitute, or a violent
individual. Most of us still have hope for ourselves even when stuck in the darkest
dilemmas, ruts and catch-22s. Most of us believe in crafting laws and instilling
order. Many of us have burrowed beneath the surface to find a spiritual sense of
being, an understanding force at least as powerful as those we succumbed to, and many
of use wouldn't escape if you opened the front door. Did you know that approximately
10 million Americans are either incarcerated, on probation, on parole or once were in
those categories? Each of those 10 million have families, friends, neighbors ... and
so closer and closer does the We interface with the You. Don't you think it's time we
talked?

Are you ready? Can you accept that the road we are travelling points toward a grim
and painful future? Do you have the heart to face monumental failures while bravely
struggling beyond where we are now? I know that some of you are, and that some of us
are, and this is what gives me hope. You need our insights just as we need your
structure. It is never over, especially when a real solution, a real treatment for
our sickness, is yet to begin.

In Solidarity,

Bruce Reilly (a.k.a Bruha)
P.O.Box 8274
Cranston, RI 02920 USA

P.S. - I am trying to conceptualize an effective guerilla media campaign to promote
this cause. Ideas are welcome. Collaboration is prayed.




















does not read the mailing list
(i.e. he just takes care of the admin tasks for the list), he will
not see your request if you don't send it to the right address.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: I see BTW (or "btw"), wrt and RTFM in postings. What do they mean?

BTW is shorthand for "by the way." WRT is "With respect to".

RTFM is generally used as an admonition and means "read the f*ing
manual" (choice of f-words varies according to reader). The
implication is that the answer to a query or complaint is easy to
find if one looks in the appropriate location FIRST. Most FAQ
postings (Frequently-Asked Questions) that answer these questions
may be found cross-posted in news.answers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Are there any restrictions on posting e-mail someone sends to me?

At a minimum, it is only polite for you to contact the author of
the letter and secure her or his permission to post it to the net.

On a more serious note, it can be argued that posting someone's
e-mail to the net without their permission is a violation of
copyright law. Under that law, even though a letter was
addressed to you, it does not grant you the right to publish the
con