Just wondering.

Yes. Only as deep as the light reaches.


"Peter Jason" wrote in message
...
Just wondering.

Cereus-validus:

Yes. Only as deep as the light reaches.

In the context it is important to consider that sunlight
only can penetrate about 100 to 200 meters deeply into the
sea. In deeper levels (like in more about 2 400 meters sea
depth) photosynthesis is also manufactured. There are living
bacteria, that - like plants - the light for power production
use completely without daylight.

For this feat they are using completely special light.
Instead of the sun the green sulfur bacteria use the weak
jets of hot sources of the deep sea for their photosynthesis.

The bacteria are thereby the first well-known organisms,
which are capable of photosynthesis without sunlight.

The special at the fact is very now that these bacteria can
live at other athmposphere than ours too.



So our current big question becomes whether photosynthesis also
exists on other planets... do exist on other planets in our
sunsystem, under the most adverse conditions photosynthesis
is possible.

Well, on fact the tiny microbes pointed out that the
"photosynthesis is not limited by any means only to the
surface of our planet"[*]

It is conceivable for example that appropriate bacteria on
the Jupitermond Europe are at the soil under a thick ice
cover assumed liquid seas. The researchers filtered the
bacteria from water tests, which took her in the proximity
of the hydrothermalen sources. As you know certainly, the
majority of the well-known representatives of the Archaea
under most extreme local conditions can exist, e.g. at low
pH or in satisfied salt solutions - or like this way the
microbes live in very high temperatures of approximately
350 degrees Celsius in a "breath-thin gap" between that
cooking hot spring waters and the ice-cold (2 degrees C.)
sea depth.

Their ability to use this extremely weak light of the hot
sources to photosynthesis and thus for power production
they owe to a singular antenna system.

This consists of an extremely sensitive chlorosom-complex,
which catches even the smallest reachable light and it for
the reaction cente of the organism transfers, where then
actual photosynthesis takes place, as Robert Blankenship
of the University of Arizona described.


[*] Have a look at online-before-print version that presents
now the international researcher team in PNAS:
"An obligately photosynthetic bacterial anaerobe from a
deep-sea hydrothermal vent";
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0503674102v1

My, oh my.

Didn't you wander off-topic into outer space?!!!

If they know how to use spell checking on other planets, why don't you?

Photosynthetic bacteria are still bacteria even though they were once
mistakenly called blue-green algae.

Since the oceans cover more than 70 percent of the earth's surface, the
answer to the original question is still YES.


"Ivan Kobrinsky" wrote in message
ups.com...
Cereus-validus:

Yes. Only as deep as the light reaches.

In the context it is important to consider that sunlight
only can penetrate about 100 to 200 meters deeply into the
sea. In deeper levels (like in more about 2 400 meters sea
depth) photosynthesis is also manufactured. There are living
bacteria, that - like plants - the light for power production
use completely without daylight.

For this feat they are using completely special light.
Instead of the sun the green sulfur bacteria use the weak
jets of hot sources of the deep sea for their photosynthesis.

The bacteria are thereby the first well-known organisms,
which are capable of photosynthesis without sunlight.

The special at the fact is very now that these bacteria can
live at other athmposphere than ours too.



So our current big question becomes whether photosynthesis also
exists on other planets... do exist on other planets in our
sunsystem, under the most adverse conditions photosynthesis
is possible.

Well, on fact the tiny microbes pointed out that the
"photosynthesis is not limited by any means only to the
surface of our planet"[*]

It is conceivable for example that appropriate bacteria on
the Jupitermond Europe are at the soil under a thick ice
cover assumed liquid seas. The researchers filtered the
bacteria from water tests, which took her in the proximity
of the hydrothermalen sources. As you know certainly, the
majority of the well-known representatives of the Archaea
under most extreme local conditions can exist, e.g. at low
pH or in satisfied salt solutions - or like this way the
microbes live in very high temperatures of approximately
350 degrees Celsius in a "breath-thin gap" between that
cooking hot spring waters and the ice-cold (2 degrees C.)
sea depth.

Their ability to use this extremely weak light of the hot
sources to photosynthesis and thus for power production
they owe to a singular antenna system.

This consists of an extremely sensitive chlorosom-complex,
which catches even the smallest reachable light and it for
the reaction cente of the organism transfers, where then
actual photosynthesis takes place, as Robert Blankenship
of the University of Arizona described.



[*] Have a look at online-before-print version that presents
now the international researcher team in PNAS:
"An obligately photosynthetic bacterial anaerobe from a
deep-sea hydrothermal vent";
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0503674102v1

All the publicity about the "wicked CO2" levels in the atmosphere may be
redundant if most photosynthesis occures in the oceans, because as the CO2
level increases then so should the phytoplankton levels to compensate for
it. The "lungs' of the earth then are not the Amazon and other forests but
the oceans of the world. Also, the large quantities of CO2 will be locked
up by sea ceatures as carbonate.





"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
m...
My, oh my.

Didn't you wander off-topic into outer space?!!!

If they know how to use spell checking on other planets, why don't you?

Photosynthetic bacteria are still bacteria even though they were once
mistakenly called blue-green algae.

Since the oceans cover more than 70 percent of the earth's surface, the
answer to the original question is still YES.


"Ivan Kobrinsky" wrote in message
ups.com...
Cereus-validus:

Yes. Only as deep as the light reaches.

In the context it is important to consider that sunlight
only can penetrate about 100 to 200 meters deeply into the
sea. In deeper levels (like in more about 2 400 meters sea
depth) photosynthesis is also manufactured. There are living
bacteria, that - like plants - the light for power production
use completely without daylight.

For this feat they are using completely special light.
Instead of the sun the green sulfur bacteria use the weak
jets of hot sources of the deep sea for their photosynthesis.

The bacteria are thereby the first well-known organisms,
which are capable of photosynthesis without sunlight.

The special at the fact is very now that these bacteria can
live at other athmposphere than ours too.



So our current big question becomes whether photosynthesis also
exists on other planets... do exist on other planets in our
sunsystem, under the most adverse conditions photosynthesis
is possible.

Well, on fact the tiny microbes pointed out that the
"photosynthesis is not limited by any means only to the
surface of our planet"[*]

It is conceivable for example that appropriate bacteria on
the Jupitermond Europe are at the soil under a thick ice
cover assumed liquid seas. The researchers filtered the
bacteria from water tests, which took her in the proximity
of the hydrothermalen sources. As you know certainly, the
majority of the well-known representatives of the Archaea
under most extreme local conditions can exist, e.g. at low
pH or in satisfied salt solutions - or like this way the
microbes live in very high temperatures of approximately
350 degrees Celsius in a "breath-thin gap" between that
cooking hot spring waters and the ice-cold (2 degrees C.)
sea depth.

Their ability to use this extremely weak light of the hot
sources to photosynthesis and thus for power production
they owe to a singular antenna system.

This consists of an extremely sensitive chlorosom-complex,
which catches even the smallest reachable light and it for
the reaction cente of the organism transfers, where then
actual photosynthesis takes place, as Robert Blankenship
of the University of Arizona described.



[*] Have a look at online-before-print version that presents
now the international researcher team in PNAS:
"An obligately photosynthetic bacterial anaerobe from a
deep-sea hydrothermal vent";
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0503674102v1

Cereus-validus:

My, oh my.

headache?


Didn't you wander off-topic into outer space?!!!

If they know how to use spell checking on other planets, why don't you?

Photosynthetic bacteria are still bacteria even though they were once
mistakenly called blue-green algae.

Since the oceans cover more than 70 percent of the earth's
surface, the answer to the original question is still YES.

Have you got what I'm telling you? I doubt that.

Your answer to the original question was simpy wrong.

---cit---

| Yes. Only as deep as the light reaches.

---cit/---


This statement arouses a wrong impression and misleads the OP.
Second part of your answer "Only as deep the light reaches" suggests
you are speaking about something that's coming from outside, from above
into the sea... - something like sunlight.

Of course in ocean lives more photosynthetic bacteria than on dry land
and of course in ocean develops more photosynthesis than on dry land -
but wrongly, this concept is not limited to the upper 200 meters of
sea levels!

You know, chemo-synthetic bacteria form the basis of the partnerships
into the 1970ies already discovered hot sources of deep sea, by using
the energy of sulfur and methane connections and also for this they
need however oxygen - *and* originates again from the photosynthesis
from the sunlight-through-flooded earth's surface.

Means, without sun no life, therefore the credo of the stone-time
biologists called - nevertheless the scientists could have made the
calculation without the so-called GSB1.

Under this contraction a bacterium was isolated right now, which
operates obviously lively photosynthesis - at the ground of the
sea into 2,400 meters of depth.

The sientists fished the puzzling germ with hydrothermical sources
before the coast of Mexico. The main thing now is that there exists
350 degrees Celsius hot spring water and that in narrow columns
between that 2 degrees Celsius cold sea depth.

As DNA analyses resulted in, GSB1 is related to the green sulfur
bacteria. These micro organisms operate a anoxygene photosynthesis
in such a way specified, whereby they split hydrogen sulfide instead
of water.

But but they still need - light. As known sunlight penetrates however
only 100 to 200 meters deeply in the water; among them the realm of the
eternal darkness begins.

The scientists hold rather the hydrothermical source themselves as
source of illuminating. Because an extremely weak light within the
*infrared range* - which is invisible for the human eye - for the
photosynthesis could glows here however to be sufficient.

With the electron microscope the researchers found into the light-shy
light-worth Chlorosomen so mentioned, which catches and for the
reaction center of the photosynthesis passes the weak light on quasi
as antenna amplifiers. After reading the the microscope documentation
papers of analysis you'll see these organisms are true masters of the
weak light photosynthesis.

You show that photosynthesis is not only limited to the direct surface
of our planet. In this sense my advice to the Jupitermond Europe, that
is born out of very practical natu Europe is considered already for
a long time as a hot candidate of extraterrestrial existence forms,
which could have domestic furnished themselves under thick ice tank.

To sun-claimant photosynthesis the heavenly body applied however as too
far. This discovery shows that organisms at places can survive, which
possible we did not consider.

In manner of Jurissic Park we can say now: "the life finds a way"!

Don't know what you're smoking, Ivan.

Your answer has very little to do with the original question.

Too bad you still don't know how to do a spell check, spaceman.

BTW, what color is the sky on YOUR planet?


"Ivan Kobrinsky" wrote in message
oups.com...
Cereus-validus:

My, oh my.

headache?


Didn't you wander off-topic into outer space?!!!

If they know how to use spell checking on other planets, why don't you?

Photosynthetic bacteria are still bacteria even though they were once
mistakenly called blue-green algae.

Since the oceans cover more than 70 percent of the earth's
surface, the answer to the original question is still YES.

Have you got what I'm telling you? I doubt that.

Your answer to the original question was simpy wrong.

---cit---

| Yes. Only as deep as the light reaches.

---cit/---


This statement arouses a wrong impression and misleads the OP.
Second part of your answer "Only as deep the light reaches" suggests
you are speaking about something that's coming from outside, from above
into the sea... - something like sunlight.

Of course in ocean lives more photosynthetic bacteria than on dry land
and of course in ocean develops more photosynthesis than on dry land -
but wrongly, this concept is not limited to the upper 200 meters of
sea levels!

You know, chemo-synthetic bacteria form the basis of the partnerships
into the 1970ies already discovered hot sources of deep sea, by using
the energy of sulfur and methane connections and also for this they
need however oxygen - *and* originates again from the photosynthesis
from the sunlight-through-flooded earth's surface.

Means, without sun no life, therefore the credo of the stone-time
biologists called - nevertheless the scientists could have made the
calculation without the so-called GSB1.

Under this contraction a bacterium was isolated right now, which
operates obviously lively photosynthesis - at the ground of the
sea into 2,400 meters of depth.

The sientists fished the puzzling germ with hydrothermical sources
before the coast of Mexico. The main thing now is that there exists
350 degrees Celsius hot spring water and that in narrow columns
between that 2 degrees Celsius cold sea depth.

As DNA analyses resulted in, GSB1 is related to the green sulfur
bacteria. These micro organisms operate a anoxygene photosynthesis
in such a way specified, whereby they split hydrogen sulfide instead
of water.

But but they still need - light. As known sunlight penetrates however
only 100 to 200 meters deeply in the water; among them the realm of the
eternal darkness begins.

The scientists hold rather the hydrothermical source themselves as
source of illuminating. Because an extremely weak light within the
*infrared range* - which is invisible for the human eye - for the
photosynthesis could glows here however to be sufficient.

With the electron microscope the researchers found into the light-shy
light-worth Chlorosomen so mentioned, which catches and for the
reaction center of the photosynthesis passes the weak light on quasi
as antenna amplifiers. After reading the the microscope documentation
papers of analysis you'll see these organisms are true masters of the
weak light photosynthesis.

You show that photosynthesis is not only limited to the direct surface
of our planet. In this sense my advice to the Jupitermond Europe, that
is born out of very practical natu Europe is considered already for
a long time as a hot candidate of extraterrestrial existence forms,
which could have domestic furnished themselves under thick ice tank.

To sun-claimant photosynthesis the heavenly body applied however as too
far. This discovery shows that organisms at places can survive, which
possible we did not consider.

In manner of Jurissic Park we can say now: "the life finds a way"!

Cereus-validus:

Don't know what you're smoking, Ivan.

Looks as if you would have concerned at your intellectual end?

Your answer has very little to do with the original question.

Why so limited? My answer has even only to do with this topic
compared with your lie.

Again:

The further prospects of the science (the point on that your
mind seems to hang remained) represents an substantial addition
fitting in the context since this realization in the measure
changes the outdated conception of the world like it leads your
first statement ad absurdum, in which you still believe.

However you didn't understand the main point yet:
The range of the sunlight doesn't state purely nothing at all
over occurrences or concentration of photosynthesis.

Tell me, why do you mislead the OP in your learn-resistance?

Too bad you still don't know how to do a spell check, spaceman.

You come too easily from the way, worm.

BTW, what color is the sky on YOUR planet?

Clarify first the meaning of sky (in light of your posts, I
strengthens doubt your apprehension), afterwards stop your stupid TOFU.

Hey Ivansky.

Have you met Archie Plutonium?
The two of you have a lot in common!!!

What's the matter, aren't any of your other crew members on the Jupiter 2
talking to you?

Are you worried that there is some sort of mass cover-up conspiracy against
you?

Its time to change your meds, Ivansky.


"Ivan Kobrinsky" wrote in message
oups.com...
Cereus-validus:

Don't know what you're smoking, Ivan.

Looks as if you would have concerned at your intellectual end?

Your answer has very little to do with the original question.

Why so limited? My answer has even only to do with this topic
compared with your lie.

Again:

The further prospects of the science (the point on that your
mind seems to hang remained) represents an substantial addition
fitting in the context since this realization in the measure
changes the outdated conception of the world like it leads your
first statement ad absurdum, in which you still believe.

However you didn't understand the main point yet:
The range of the sunlight doesn't state purely nothing at all
over occurrences or concentration of photosynthesis.

Tell me, why do you mislead the OP in your learn-resistance?

Too bad you still don't know how to do a spell check, spaceman.

You come too easily from the way, worm.

BTW, what color is the sky on YOUR planet?

Clarify first the meaning of sky (in light of your posts, I
strengthens doubt your apprehension), afterwards stop your stupid TOFU.

Estimates of global photosynthesis by NASA, the Intergovernmental Panel
on Climate Change and others are that roughly 50% occurs in the oceans
and 50% occurs on land. I have seen older textbooks with estimates
60/40 both ways so estimates vary. The current 50/50 estimates may
change as more accurate techniques to measure global photosynthesis are
employed.

http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2005...o_problem.html
http://www.newstarget.com/005139.html
http://www.noc.soton.ac.uk/JRD/SCHOO...phsynth01.html

The oceans are about twice the area of land but ocean photosynthesis is
often lower than on land as the color maps in the following NASA
website indicate:

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NPP/npp.html

David R. Hershey

Die at another place.

ROTFLMAO!

Die in the same place.

Kiss my phytoplankton!!!


"Ivan Kobrinsky" wrote in message
oups.com...

Die at another place.

Ivan Kobrinsky wrote:
For this feat they are using completely special light.
Instead of the sun the green sulfur bacteria use the weak
jets of hot sources of the deep sea for their photosynthesis.
Hum... photo-synthesis, photo is greek for light, right? The bacterias
you described seems to use the heat energy to do whatever is done and
not light energy, therefore it couldn't be called photosynthesis, could
it? I'm not a biologist and i don't even know much about it, but that
just seemed wrong.

I don't think it would be one of the main oxygen source anyway, so it's
a good enough approximation to consider only the oxygen generated by the
things that live right on top of the ocean water. Althought your
considerations are interesting, they might have been posted with a
different subject.

In article ,
Peter Jason wrote:
All the publicity about the "wicked CO2" levels in the atmosphere may be
redundant if most photosynthesis occures in the oceans, because as the CO2
level increases then so should the phytoplankton levels to compensate for
it. The "lungs' of the earth then are not the Amazon and other forests but
the oceans of the world. Also, the large quantities of CO2 will be locked
up by sea ceatures as carbonate.

CO2 levels are increasing faster than the oceans can take the surplus
up, i.e. equilibrium hasn't been reached, and the disequilibrium is
getting worse. The CO2 in the atmosphere is causing global warming,
which will increase CO2 levels in a positive feedback cycle, as shifting
patterns of rainfall make forests less viable, promote forest fires,
and dry out arctic muskeg exposing thick layers of ancient peat to
rapid oxidation.

Note that CO2 taken up by land plants may be locked up in cellulose for
millennia, while CO2 taken up by algae is mostly released soon after as
the algal cell metabolizes and when it dies.

The oceans are full of carbonate, so it's unlikely that CO2 level is a
limiting factor in phytoplankton growth, as it is in land and fresh
water plants under some conditions. Most likely, the limiting factor
is light or nitrate in the most productive parts of the ocean.

As for the shelly fauna of the sea taking up the excess carbonate,
carbonate is not a limiting factor in the growth of marine fauna,
either. Note also, that most calcium carbonate is recycled in the
oceans -- shells are consumed by other organisms and any that fall
below a certain depth dissolve at the higher pressures. Very little
sticks around long enough to become limestone.

There have been times in the past that planetary equilibria with higher
levels of atmospheric CO2 have been maintained, but they were
associated with different climates than we have now as well as
completely different flora and fauna. So sure, a new equilibrium can
be attained, but it may well not be one that can support 6 billion
humans, and it may involve extreme fluctuations in climate and
biosphere on the way which could take millions of years to recover
from. Even fairly minor fluctuations can result in massive human
death tolls, mostly from starvation as crops fail and the best
agricultural land is destroyed by rising sea levels.

So yeah, if you're concerned about the Future of Life on Earth, don't
worry, take the long view, even the catastrophic extinctions returned
to comparable biodiversity in 25-50 million years. Not the same
animals and plants, but plenty of them. But if you're concerned about
yourself and the next few generations, there's no reason to believe
it's business as usual, the oceans will sop it all up, let the good
times roll.

In article ,
Rafael Almeida wrote:
Ivan Kobrinsky wrote:
For this feat they are using completely special light.
Instead of the sun the green sulfur bacteria use the weak
jets of hot sources of the deep sea for their photosynthesis.
Hum... photo-synthesis, photo is greek for light, right? The bacterias
you described seems to use the heat energy to do whatever is done and
not light energy, therefore it couldn't be called photosynthesis, could
it? I'm not a biologist and i don't even know much about it, but that
just seemed wrong.

It seemed strange to me too, but if these hot water jets are as hot as
350C, they would be hot enough to emit some near-infrared and even a
bit of red light by black-body radiation, at the tail end of the curve.

Ivan, do you have any references for this idea that deep ocean vent
bacteria can photosynthesize from this source of light? It's an
interesting idea, and a new one to me. I'd like to read more about it.

I don't think it would be one of the main oxygen source anyway, so it's
a good enough approximation to consider only the oxygen generated by the
things that live right on top of the ocean water. Althought your
considerations are interesting, they might have been posted with a
different subject.

That's true. Btw, Ivan, ignore Cereus. He gets his jollies by trying to
prove he's superior to everybody else here. Arguing with him is pointless
and just gives him more excuses to engage in name-calling and other
childish behaviours. Most of us just ignore him, so he has to wait for
new participants to play with.