2 Saturdays ago I was given a 15 inch domestic koi, probably fairly young as
it is not very broad. I floated the bag for about 30 minutes and then
released him. For about the first five days it seemed just fine. In fact
for several days it was chasing one of my others, presumably trying to
spawn. It came from a giant pond (20000 gal or more) so I wasn't too
surprised when it seemed to wander around more instead of staying with the
group. But then I noticed it just kind of lingering and was concerned.
Starting about 3 days ago it is obviously in great distress and dying. It
stays at the edge of the pond, gasping and has difficulty even staying
upright. It has few symptoms that I can recognize. Although it is not
obviously milky white it must have some slime coat thickening as it seems it
is literally dirty on its top side. The only other thing is difficult to
describe and I don't know if it is atypical for this fish. Though it is
mostly orange both gill covers look like they have a giant thumbprint on
them in white. I haven't had it long enough to know if this was it's
normal, although my guess is not.

2 days ago I notice a few of the fish flashing. One small one even jumped
out of the water, so I thought well maybe it's unknown parasites. I salted
to .1% that evening and dosed 10 gms of PP for my 1000 gal pond yesterday.
Though it isnt obvious to me I must have more 'organics' than I thought as I
actually dosed 3 times and each time the sample was virtually clear within
an hour or so. I have not dechlorinated in 10 days minimum. I still will
continue to try to get a more sustained pink, although the 'irritation'
seems to have stopped. The only improvement in the koi is minimal at best -
now instead of being on the side of the pond with heavy plants he is on the
open side. I never saw him flashing at all. If I try to get right over him
to look at him he will dive, but then come floating back up when I move.
As mentioned 1000 gal - 13 fish - 4 koi (2 5", 1 about 11 inches and the
sick guy) and the rest comets 3-6 inches. The water seems fine Am,
Nitri,Nitra -0-0-10. pH 7.6/7.8, kH 8, gH 12. water temp 68 and I have been
lightly feeding. About the only thing I could move the koi to is a
currently dry and empty 29 gal aquarium. I have wondered if the flashing is
of significance with the koi. The koi actually came from the botanical
gardens, which has definitely had problems with their water parameters in
past months, hence them giving away fish to lessen the load. I had wondered
if this was somehow a reaction to being in better water, although as I said
it seemed fine for at least 5 days.

Any suggestions?
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 18:04:00 CST, "humBill" wrote:

2 Saturdays ago I was given a 15 inch domestic koi, probably fairly young as
it is not very broad. I floated the bag for about 30 minutes and then
released him. For about the first five days it seemed just fine. In fact
for several days it was chasing one of my others, presumably trying to
spawn. It came from a giant pond (20000 gal or more) so I wasn't too
surprised when it seemed to wander around more instead of staying with the
group. But then I noticed it just kind of lingering and was concerned.
Starting about 3 days ago it is obviously in great distress and dying. It
stays at the edge of the pond, gasping and has difficulty even staying
upright. It has few symptoms that I can recognize. Although it is not
obviously milky white it must have some slime coat thickening as it seems it
is literally dirty on its top side. The only other thing is difficult to
describe and I don't know if it is atypical for this fish. Though it is
mostly orange both gill covers look like they have a giant thumbprint on
them in white. I haven't had it long enough to know if this was it's
normal, although my guess is not.

2 days ago I notice a few of the fish flashing. One small one even jumped
out of the water, so I thought well maybe it's unknown parasites. I salted
to .1% that evening and dosed 10 gms of PP for my 1000 gal pond yesterday.
Though it isnt obvious to me I must have more 'organics' than I thought as I
actually dosed 3 times and each time the sample was virtually clear within
an hour or so. I have not dechlorinated in 10 days minimum. I still will
continue to try to get a more sustained pink, although the 'irritation'
seems to have stopped. The only improvement in the koi is minimal at best -
now instead of being on the side of the pond with heavy plants he is on the
open side. I never saw him flashing at all. If I try to get right over him
to look at him he will dive, but then come floating back up when I move.
As mentioned 1000 gal - 13 fish - 4 koi (2 5", 1 about 11 inches and the
sick guy) and the rest comets 3-6 inches. The water seems fine Am,
Nitri,Nitra -0-0-10. pH 7.6/7.8, kH 8, gH 12. water temp 68 and I have been
lightly feeding. About the only thing I could move the koi to is a
currently dry and empty 29 gal aquarium. I have wondered if the flashing is
of significance with the koi. The koi actually came from the botanical
gardens, which has definitely had problems with their water parameters in
past months, hence them giving away fish to lessen the load. I had wondered
if this was somehow a reaction to being in better water, although as I said
it seemed fine for at least 5 days.

Any suggestions?
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

Get the fish out of there ASAP. In the aquarium you can start treatments.
Bring the salt up to 0.3% and get someone to do a scrape and scope, look at
it gills, etc. How long had this fish been in the bio.garden pond? When did
they add their last new fish? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State

"~ jan" wrote in message Get the fish out of
there ASAP. In the aquarium you can start treatments.
Bring the salt up to 0.3% and get someone to do a scrape and scope, look
at
it gills, etc.

Thanks for the suggestion.

How long had this fish been in the bio.garden pond? When did
they add their last new fish? ~ jan

This fish and probably all the fish there have likely been there their
lifetime. I don't think they ever introduce new fish, but there are many
generations of koi there. In mid Jan our pond society moved a bunch of koi
from a secondary pond to the main one that had been repaired. At that time
quite a few of the koi were scoped and nothing was noticed. But, because
the secondary pond was way overstocked there were some deaths before the
move.

Bill


Zone 7a, SE Washington State

On Mar 28, 7:04 pm, "humBill" wrote:
2 Saturdays ago I was given a 15 inch domestickoi, probably fairly young as
it is not very broad. I floated the bag for about 30 minutes and then
released him. For about the first five days it seemed just fine. In fact
for several days it was chasing one of my others, presumably trying to
spawn. It came from a giantpond(20000 gal or more) so I wasn't too
surprised when it seemed to wander around more instead of staying with the
group. But then I noticed it just kind of lingering and was concerned.
Starting about 3 days ago it is obviously in great distress and dying. It
stays at the edge of thepond, gasping and has difficulty even staying
upright. It has few symptoms that I can recognize. Although it is not
obviously milky white it must have some slime coat thickening as it seems it
is literally dirty on its top side. The only other thing is difficult to
describe and I don't know if it is atypical for this fish. Though it is
mostly orange both gill covers look like they have a giant thumbprint on
them in white. I haven't had it long enough to know if this was it's
normal, although my guess is not.

2 days ago I notice a few of the fish flashing. One small one even jumped
out of the water, so I thought well maybe it's unknown parasites. I salted
to .1% that evening and dosed 10 gms of PP for my 1000 galpondyesterday.
Though it isnt obvious to me I must have more 'organics' than I thought as I
actually dosed 3 times and each time the sample was virtually clear within
an hour or so. I have not dechlorinated in 10 days minimum. I still will
continue to try to get a more sustained pink, although the 'irritation'
seems to have stopped. The only improvement in thekoiis minimal at best -
now instead of being on the side of thepondwith heavy plants he is on the
open side. I never saw him flashing at all. If I try to get right over him
to look at him he will dive, but then come floating back up when I move.
As mentioned 1000 gal - 13 fish - 4koi(2 5", 1 about 11 inches and the
sick guy) and the rest comets 3-6 inches. The water seems fine Am,
Nitri,Nitra -0-0-10. pH 7.6/7.8, kH 8, gH 12. water temp 68 and I have been
lightly feeding. About the only thing I could move thekoito is a
currently dry and empty 29 gal aquarium. I have wondered if the flashing is
of significance with thekoi. Thekoiactually came from the botanical
gardens, which has definitely had problems with their water parameters in
past months, hence them giving away fish to lessen the load. I had wondered
if this was somehow a reaction to being in better water, although as I said
it seemed fine for at least 5 days.

Any suggestions?
Thanxx
Bill Brister - Austin, Texas

sounds to me like the fish is very stressed comming from an open pond
probably aclimated to its enviroment for possible many generations and
now is placed in a smaller pond with more population per cubic area.
if your water is testing fine i do not see why the fish's problem can
be biological unless the fish already was infected prior to its
arrival and is now showing simptoms in which case you may want to
consider to quarantine the fish until your sure.
Pete
http://www.relaxingdecor.com

call Jo Ann Burke 251-649-4790. Have your water parameters checked before
calling. Ingrid

if you mixed pond water into the bag water that could have caused some gill
damage.
koi are all "carriers" of stuff. they get into an immune balance with their
cooties and are asymptomatic. but when STRESSED, the cooties break out of
dormancy or control. then the stressed fish is fighting to control it AND
becomes an incubator that spreads the cooties to the other fish. when your
existing fish are infected, they become STRESSED and their cooties break out
and spread to the new fish. this goes back and forth until it finally
settles down.

if none of your fish die, you are lucky. NEW FISH MUST ALWAYS BE
QUARANTINED. water from the pond they are going into should be used halfway
thru the quaranatine to introduce them to cooties they might not have had
contact with before. it is infinitely easier to treat a 100 gallon stock
tanks than a big pond. cheaper too. AND, the stock tank can be heated to
speed recovery for some infections.

gasping is always an indication of impaired ability to get oxygen. it means
the gills have been attacked by something. attack always starts with
parasites, ich, gyros, dacs, something like that and then come the bacteria.
bad slime coat is either water condition or parasites. since the PP seems
to have worked it is more likely it was gyros, altho the salt could have
helped with ich. in koi ich causes the skin to look like it has a rash.
the white thumbprint suggests columnaris.

SPRING IS NOT THE BEST TIME TO GET OR MOVE FISH. fish are most loaded with
crud in spring. moving the fish to a 29 gallon will most likely kill it. a
big 100 gallon stock tank is best for koi quarantine, and a nice big gravity
filter to keep the water pristine. Ingrid

"humBill" wrote in message
2 Saturdays ago I was given a 15 inch domestic koi
I floated the bag for about 30 minutes and then released him.
For about the first five days it seemed just fine
Starting about 3 days ago it is obviously in great distress and dying. It
stays at the edge of the pond, gasping and has difficulty even staying
upright.
some slime coat thickening as it seems it is literally dirty on its top
side.
gill covers look like they have a giant thumbprint on them in white.

2 days ago I notice a few of the fish flashing. One small one even jumped
out of the water, so I thought well maybe it's unknown parasites. I
salted
to .1% that evening and dosed 10 gms of PP for my 1000 gal pond yesterday.
Though it isnt obvious to me I must have more 'organics' than I thought as
I
actually dosed 3 times and each time the sample was virtually clear within
an hour or so. I have not dechlorinated in 10 days minimum.
he will dive, but then come floating back up when I move.
As mentioned 1000 gal - 13 fish - 4 koi (2 5", 1 about 11 inches and
the
sick guy) and the rest comets 3-6 inches.
water temp 68 and I have been
lightly feeding. About the only thing I could move the koi to is a
currently dry and empty 29 gal aquarium. I have wondered if the flashing
is
of significance with the koi. The koi actually came from the botanical
gardens, which has definitely had problems with their water parameters in
past months, hence them giving away fish to lessen the load