Hi all,

I live in the Los Angeles area with a 2,200 gal Koi and gold fish pond
(right now, only one Koi and about 20 gold fish). The pond has two Aquascape
Pro 3000 gal/hr pumps with about an 8 foot head to the bio filter which
feeds a 20 foot stream and waterfalls (each pump has about a 2K gal/hr flow
at 10ft head). I normally only run one pump at a time other than for
cleaning or treating.

My question for the group is do any of you cycle your pump off and on at
night? I have converted the house to photo voltaic (solar electric) and have
become very conscious of the electricity that I use. I currently am going to
be able to generate a small surplus yearly (i.e., I generate more
electricity than I use), but would not mind sending more back to the grid if
I am able to do so.

I read where the bacteria in the bio filter will die off if they do not
receive water changes within five hours. I have a timer that is programmable
hour by hour, and I was thinking that at night I could run the pump for an
hour and then have it off for an hour, on for the next hour and then off for
an hour, etc.

The Aquascape Pro 3000 uses about 280 watts per hour, and if I cycle it off
for four hours a day, it would save about 408 kWh a year; six hours a day
would save 613 kWh a year. Those quantities could be enough to power an
average house for a month.

I am thinking green here, but do not want to damage the health of my bio
filter or my fish. I think the pond probably is over-pumped and
over-filtered and I am just burning energy that could be sent elsewhere.



I would appreciate your experiences, advice and opinions on the nightly hour
on, hour off cycle proposition here.

Thank you,

doug

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:48:41 CST, "old dirtbeard"
wrote:

The Aquascape Pro 3000 uses about 280 watts per hour, and if I cycle it off
for four hours a day, it would save about 408 kWh a year; six hours a day
would save 613 kWh a year. Those quantities could be enough to power an
average house for a month.

I am thinking green here, but do not want to damage the health of my bio
filter or my fish. I think the pond probably is over-pumped and
over-filtered and I am just burning energy that could be sent elsewhere.

I might consider a slower flow (smaller pump) to the filters to save
power, but I would never recommend stopping, or cycling the flow.
The filter bacteria have a short lifecycle and depend on the constant
water flow to survive and multiply.


--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:41:23 CST, Hal wrote:

On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:48:41 CST, "old dirtbeard"
wrote:

The Aquascape Pro 3000 uses about 280 watts per hour, and if I cycle it off
for four hours a day, it would save about 408 kWh a year; six hours a day
would save 613 kWh a year. Those quantities could be enough to power an
average house for a month.

I am thinking green here, but do not want to damage the health of my bio
filter or my fish. I think the pond probably is over-pumped and
over-filtered and I am just burning energy that could be sent elsewhere.

I might consider a slower flow (smaller pump) to the filters to save
power, but I would never recommend stopping, or cycling the flow.
The filter bacteria have a short lifecycle and depend on the constant
water flow to survive and multiply.

I agree, and would add that not only food, but the bacteria is aerobic,
meaning it needs air flowing pass it. Still water and they drown.

OD you might want to look into using a trickle tower rather than a
submerged media filter. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:21:16 CST, ~ jan wrote:

I agree, and would add that not only food, but the bacteria is aerobic,
meaning it needs air flowing pass it. Still water and they drown.

Quote from Wikipedia: Aerobic organism, a living thing with an
oxygen-based metabolism ++++
I don't believe it is air, but oxygen that the bacteria gets from the
water.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 12:45:34 CST, Hal wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:21:16 CST, ~ jan wrote:

I agree, and would add that not only food, but the bacteria is aerobic,
meaning it needs air flowing pass it. Still water and they drown.

Quote from Wikipedia: Aerobic organism, a living thing with an
oxygen-based metabolism ++++
I don't believe it is air, but oxygen that the bacteria gets from the
water.

You are correct, misuse and abuse of term. ;-) ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Hi Hal,



I have looked at other pumps:



http://www.thepondoutlet.com/home/tpo/page_1679





633-gph (EPP315) - 35 watts; max lift 7.8', 1/2" - 3/4"outlet fitting. 12'
cord.

1056-gph (EPP320) - 70 watts; max lift 9.1', 1/2"- 3/4" outlet fitting. 15'
cord.

1267-gph (EPP325) - 90 watts; max lift 14.7', 3/4"- 1" outlet fitting. 15'
cord.



Since my pond is plumbed for two pumps anyway, I could run a 1,056 gal/hr
pump say 12 hours at night and then run one of the Aquascape 3,000 gal pumps
the other 12 hours during the day.



280 watts - 70 watts * 12 * 365 = 919,800 watt hours/year



This would cut almost a million watt hours yearly, which would be great.



Cycling the current pump off and on would be a lot easier and cheaper, of
course. I had read a couple articles where they said do not interrupt the
pump flow for more than five hours in one spot, and one hour in another
article, so I was considering going the "cycling" approach (here the concern
is oxygen depletion in the bio filter).



As it stands now, I turn off the pump for about an hour each day to feed the
fish (there is so much current that all the food ends up in the skimmer
otherwise), and the water quality is great. I thought that an hour on
followed by an hour off during the night would be a good compromise.



I guess I could try it and test the water very closely to see if it degraded
the bacteria in the bio filter. I was just hoping to see if anyone had tried
this before. Thank you for the feedback -- much appreciated.



Thank you,



doug

On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 11:40:50 CST, "old dirtbeard"
wrote:

I guess I could try it and test the water very closely to see if it degraded
the bacteria in the bio filter. I was just hoping to see if anyone had tried
this before. Thank you for the feedback -- much appreciated.


Sorry I can't be more helpful. I feel every time I turn off my pump,
I'm having a negative effect on the filters and try to keep the pumps
running 24/7.

As I understand nitrifying bacteria in bio-filters, they feed on the
ammonia/nitrates in fish waste in the water flow and in turn produce
waste of their own. If the water flow stops, they die from starvation
and the accumulation of their own waste. They are subject to the
"toilet bowl" existence too.

I poked around a bit, but didn't find any articles about changing the
water flow on an hourly basis like you mentioned. Perhaps you could
let us know how reducing the flow at night works for you?
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

I really think you should look into a low-wattage pump, rather than turning
yours off daily. Maybe just one for the filter, and one you can turn on and
off for the waterfall.

- Michael Lee


I guess I could try it and test the water very closely to see if it
degraded the bacteria in the bio filter. I was just hoping to see if
anyone had tried this before. Thank you for the feedback -- much
appreciated.

Doug,

Your question has got Phyllis and me thinking about our pond structure
and electric usage.

If your filter is closed, cutting off flow eliminates all sources of
oxygen. If your filters are open or veggie filters, the result might
be different.

Our filters include three upflow barrels and three veggie filters
(essentially small, open, 4' x 8' x 18" ponds). What happens if the
water flow to them is turned off? Our oxygenation from waterfalls and
streams will be ended and the water standing in the three upflow
barrels will be still, getting air only from the top surface of the
barrel. Will the lack of flow harm or kill the bacteria? In our
case, I suspect an hour of no flow in the veggie filters would not be
a big deal. I don't know about the barrels...but then their
contribution to the system is not crucial.

We have run our system 24/7 for over a decade with interruptions only
for power failures. The system did not die off when those
happened...even in the summer.

It would be very interesting to me to learn about the impact of time
and temperature on the effect of no circulation. Have you been able
to get any information from sources like the city sewage folk or
biologists? If your system has excess capacity and hour-off does not
degrade it too much to function or to survive, you might save money
without hurting your pond.

I am thinking that we have a lot of excess capacity with over 80 sq'
of veggie filter for a pond with about 300 sq' of surface. I suspect
we could probably save a good bit by doing the on/off
routine...especially in the winter when the bacteria are not doing
their thing.

I will begin doing some searching to learn about lack of flow and
filter bacteria. If you get some good data, please let us know. No
one would want to kill off the filter bacteria, but I suspect all of
us would be glad to save money and energy.

Jim

Have you thought about moving to a veggie filter process for your
filter?

in closed systems, where filters dont get oxygen the anaerobic bacteria kick in and
their "product" is H2S, hydrogen sulfide which creates the stinky smell of fetid
ponds. this product is extremely toxic to fish and when the pump is started again
the built up H2S is dumped into the pond.

I agree. split the pumps and run a highly efficient one on the filters all the time,
OR, switch to a shallow veggie filter where anaerobic conditions wont occur, Ingrid

On Tue, 5 Feb 2008 15:47:02 CST, wrote:

in closed systems, where filters dont get oxygen the anaerobic bacteria kick in and
their "product" is H2S, hydrogen sulfide which creates the stinky smell of fetid
ponds. this product is extremely toxic to fish and when the pump is started again
the built up H2S is dumped into the pond.

I agree. split the pumps and run a highly efficient one on the filters all the time,
OR, switch to a shallow veggie filter where anaerobic conditions wont occur, Ingrid

Or a filter that is above the pond and drains completely back into the pond
(be it veggie or otherwise) when off. Aerobic bacteria can probably last
longer without food then they can without air, but they do need to stay
wet. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us