On Apr 5, 2:22 pm, kathy wrote:
Let's say you talked your spouse into another pond...
or you moved to a new house and had an unlimited budget
and the use of several football playing teenagers for free
labor (minus pizza and pop).

What pond would you plan and build??
Koi pond, goldfish pond, plant crazy pond,
wildlife pond, streams, waterfalls, fountains,
a whole backyard pond, a pond that is both
inside and outside, 20 feet deep, fixed with
underwater cameras, something that could be
seen on google maps, bridges, islands, beaches,
sunken ships, mermaids, submarines?

k :-)
Hi everyone!
I think somewhere I may have indicated that I would be 'fixing up' my
pond this year. :-)

Update: Bottom drains are installed, skimmer installed and plumbed
into the bottom drain lines, settling tanks are in and plumbed, as is
the 150 gallon rubbermaid bio-mech filter. Waiting on a kinfe gate
valve to come in this Friday (5/30/08) so I can finish with the
plumbing and put in the liner. I hope to have it filled by this
Saturday. So far, so good, and not a whole lot of work. Almost like
puttering around the house! LOL
I will get some pictures posted in the near future and post them
he http://home.pcisys.net/~muaddib/
It will look just a little different than my last pond.
W. Dale

Congrats! Sounds like fun.

I had a bad experience with a knife valve a year or so ago and changed
all mine out for ball valves. Basically, I had a line coming from the
bottom drain to my pump and my builder had put knife valves on either
side of the pump. I'd power down, shut the valves, clear the leaf
basket in the pump, reopen and start things up again. Until... a
pebble decided to travel to the pond-side knife valve and lodge right
in the bottom groove of the valve. I couldn't shut the flow off
completely anymore, so I couldn't open the pump basket. I should
mention that this pump is in my basement, in a "wet-ok" area, but not
an area where I could let the pond dump for several minutes while I
tried to clear the stone. And, if things went really wrong and I
couldn't plug the flood, I'd end up with 15,000 gallons of pond water
all around me.

I ended up having to go in the pond (6' down), remove the bottom drain
cover, put a compression plug in the pipe for the drain, drain the
line water by undoing the plumbing after the knife valve (sweating
that the drain plug was tight enough since water flow continued), and
finally reaching in and pulling out the problem pebble which was less
than a 1/4" in diameter. When I put it all back together, I added a
ball valve after the knife valve since there was no easy way to get
the old valve off. I use ball valves all around now even though the
knife valve is still on there. One tiny pebble caused so much grief.

I hope your experience is better than mine in that respect. : )

Dave

On Sat, 31 May 2008 09:27:03 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

One tiny pebble caused so much grief.
Dave

Hmmm, the Princess and the Pea. The Ponder and Pebble, if you suffered
sleepless nights would that make one a prince? ;-) ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Jun 1, 12:20 pm, ~ jan wrote:
...
Hmmm, the Princess and the Pea. The Ponder and Pebble, if you suffered
sleepless nights would that make one a prince? ;-) ~ jan

Yes, indeed. My various titles include "Pond Prince," "Resident
Groundskeeper," and of course, "OMG, My Dad, the Crazy Fish Guy. *sigh!
*"

Dave

On May 31, 7:27 am, Pond Addict wrote:
Congrats! Sounds like fun.

I had a bad experience with a knife valve a year or so ago and changed
all mine out for ball valves. Basically, I had a line coming from thebottomdrain to my pump and my builder had put knife valves on either
side of the pump. I'd power down, shut the valves, clear the leaf
basket in the pump, reopen and start things up again. Until... a
pebble decided to travel to the pond-side knife valve and lodge right
in thebottomgroove of the valve. I couldn't shut the flow off
completely anymore, so I couldn't open the pump basket. I should
mention that this pump is in my basement, in a "wet-ok" area, but not
an area where I could let the pond dump for several minutes while I
tried to clear the stone. And, if things went really wrong and I
couldn't plug the flood, I'd end up with 15,000 gallons of pond water
all around me.

I ended up having to go in the pond (6' down), remove thebottomdrain
cover, put a compression plug in the pipe for the drain, drain the
line water by undoing the plumbing after the knife valve (sweating
that the drain plug was tight enough since water flow continued), and
finally reaching in and pulling out the problem pebble which was less
than a 1/4" in diameter. When I put it all back together, I added a
ball valve after the knife valve since there was no easy way to get
the old valve off. I use ball valves all around now even though the
knife valve is still on there. One tiny pebble caused so much grief.

I hope your experience is better than mine in that respect. : )

Dave

Thanks Dave. I hope I never have that problem! Sounds like a real
head ache!
I do have a question though: How necessary is it to put cement around
the bottom drain to keep it from shifting? I have read a few tips on
installing them and they all say to put cement around the drain to
keep it from shifting and putting pressure on the liner. What are
your thoughts?
W. Dale

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:07:41 EDT, W Dale wrote:

I do have a question though: How necessary is it to put cement around
the bottom drain to keep it from shifting? I have read a few tips on
installing them and they all say to put cement around the drain to
keep it from shifting and putting pressure on the liner. What are
your thoughts?
W. Dale

Our club's Pres. first install he didn't use cement. It settled and the
liner stretched..... but thankfully didn't give out. He discovered it the
next year when he decided to remodel and used cement. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

On Jun 3, 9:57 pm, ~ jan wrote:
On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:07:41 EDT, W Dale wrote:
I do have a question though: How necessary is it to put cement around
the bottom drain to keep it from shifting? I have read a few tips on
installing them and they all say to put cement around the drain to
keep it from shifting and putting pressure on the liner. What are
your thoughts?
W. Dale

Our club's Pres. first install he didn't use cement. It settled and the
liner stretched..... but thankfully didn't give out. He discovered it the
next year when he decided to remodel and used cement. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds:www.jjspond.us

Hummmm .... Ok... My neighbor installed a bottom drain, did not use
cement, and says that his is doing just fine. However, I suspect that
mine may move a bit so I will keep and eye on them as I did not pour
the cement around them but packed them down pretty tightly. We will
see. Give the comments I see here, I am now worried just a bit. I
will keep you posted.
W Dale

On Tue, 3 Jun 2008 15:07:41 EDT, W Dale wrote:

Thanks Dave. I hope I never have that problem! Sounds like a real
head ache!
I do have a question though: How necessary is it to put cement around
the bottom drain to keep it from shifting? I have read a few tips on
installing them and they all say to put cement around the drain to
keep it from shifting and putting pressure on the liner. What are
your thoughts?

I'm not Dave, but I would like to offer my opinion about knife valves
and bottom drains. I have mostly knife valves, but also a couple ball
valves. I probably would agree if I were a few years younger and a
bit stronger, but ball valves have become a challenge to me and I
sometimes have to use an extension (Adjustable wrench, usually.) to
operate the handle. Knife valves otoh can be moved much easier with
fingers alone, even in difficult to reach places.. I must plan and
place the valves in a higher point on the line so a pebble doesn't
stop at that point.

When I installed a bottom drain, the instructions called for a 5/8"
gap around the perimeter of the drain dome/cover. That seemed
excessive, so I did some measuring and planning and set the gap
somewhat closer. I did a good job of packing in the clay, took
several days of wetting packing and checking. Bottom line, over the
years the drain did move slightly. Not enough to be a problem, but if
I were to do it again, I'd do the measuring, planning and pour
concrete around the pipe into a hole made in undisturbed clay, because
that is the better chance of it moving less. Pipe contact with the
earth is small compared to the amount of surface contact with the glob
of cement poured around the pipe.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

I'm not sure of best approaches to installing a bottom drain, but I'd
adopt the attitude that it *will* shift and leak unless you do
everything to prevent that. That way, you've probably done all you
can. It's probably the last place you want a leak.

Hal, I totally agree with you about the difference in effort to work a
knife gate vs. a ball valve. I suppose I could have just added a ball
valve at the supply side (where stones might enter) for emergencies,
and a knife gate after that for routine use. I really felt the need to
have a positive shut off on the supply line, and then I switched out
my other valve for therapy.

Dave

Our ball valves are hard to turn as well. Didn't think about knife
valves when we built. Too bad.

Jim

On Jun 5, 2:52 pm, Phyllis and Jim wrote:
Our ball valves are hard to turn as well. Didn't think about knife
valves when we built. Too bad.

Jim

I just turn my ball valves ever so often to keep them easy to turn.
Seems to work.

Pond liner update. Official: I have a leak some where in the liner.
losing about 2 inches of water per 24 hours. I turned the water fall
off just to make sure and sure enough, the water level in the 150
gallon stock tank has dropped only about 1/8 of an inch (if that) in
the past 24 hours while the pond has gone done more than 2 inches.
Bummer! Guess I am going to have the most expensive under layment in
ponding history! Rather than taking the BTL-24 liner out and
replacing it with EPDM, I will use it as and under layment if I cannot
find and repair the leak. and I have that sucker filled up too!
W. Dale

I hope you can find the leak. Let it go down to where the descent
stops. Add about 1/4" and begin dropping milk around the edge. You
should see the milk be pulled through the liner where a leak is. It
may not be the only one. May you find the leak at the top of your
area!

Jim

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 18:57:09 EDT, W Dale wrote:

I just turn my ball valves ever so often to keep them easy to turn.
Seems to work.

Glad it works for you.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb