Thanks for the info, Jan.

I was away, so I haven't caught the fish yet. But, the Tricide-Neo
arrived today. Should I still use that and if so, is that in place of
the salt dip?

I have the .3% water ready for the fish... when I catch it.

My salt dip info in my Koi Health & Disease book says 50 Tablespoons
to 5 Gal. for a max 7-10 min unless the fish is stressing/flipping
over, then move to quarantine, and repeat every 12 hours for 3 dips
total. Is that what you were thinking?

I'm hoping to catch the fish today using the "bird netting" method Joe
mentioned. I think that's the only way I'll ever get it.

The algae on the wound is gone, and the area is a lighter orange now.
The fish is still eating and active.

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:26:29 EDT, Pond Addict
wrote:

I was away, so I haven't caught the fish yet. But, the Tricide-Neo
arrived today. Should I still use that and if so, is that in place of
the salt dip?

Salt dip first, put in aquarium, let it rest a bit. Then clean wound with
H2O2 and use the Tricide-Neo following the directions. You'll need DI
water. I found it easier to make the gallon amount, and have DI water on
hand to rinse fish before and after.

My salt dip info in my Koi Health & Disease book says 50 Tablespoons
to 5 Gal. for a max 7-10 min unless the fish is stressing/flipping
over, then move to quarantine, and repeat every 12 hours for 3 dips
total. Is that what you were thinking?

3% is the amount you're shooting for, usually 5 minutes max. 1 time, to get
any parasites off the fish.

Just went back and look for new info. Recommendation is to scrub the wound
with a salt paste and then rinse with saline. That's if what it has is a
fungus growing on the wound. IMhO, you still need to salt dip, clean wound,
and use the Tricide-Neo. I'm betting that will do the trick, especially
since fish is acting so healthy otherwise.

Keep me posted. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

I'm worried about putting denture adhesive on the fish... I'm not sure
if what I got is the right stuff or not and it just seems like a
really foreign substance. Given my experience of killing the fish by
doing too much, that part makes me nervous.

We only have chain pet stores which are poorly stocked for fish first
aid, so I ordered some bio bandage and malachite green for at least
next time, if not this time.

I came very close to catching it yesterday, but my bird netting was a
bit too short and the daylight ran out. I got a larger roll of bird
netting and I'm sure I'll get it today. Once I catch it, I'll take
some better pictures and make some slides prior to dipping.

What is DI water?

Thanks,

Dave

I got it in. It looks really bad. That eye is glazed over again.

I checked under the microscope for bad things, and didn't see any with
slides made from the wound area, as well as normal swipes.

I gave it a salt dip but had to pull it out at 4 minutes. It was on
its side and shocky with its mouth stuck open. I put it in the
aquarium and after maybe 5 or 10 minutes it came around. It's now
swimming, but clearly annoyed at being confined.

Man, that wound is a bloody-looking mess.

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html
See the 4/22/08 image.

I put a large one up there since I finally got a good view of things.
The other side of the fish looks good.

Dave

This was an E-mail reply to Dave, but in case other were interested in what
I was suggesting:

I got the fish in. I've taken a picture and posted it at the usual place:

http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html

See the last picture.

Oh yes, that definitely needs to be scrubbed. Your choice if it is salt
paste or H2O2. I've always used H2O2 myself. Course don't get it in the
gills.

at .36%. Is that ok?

Yes, that's fine.

How do I clean the area with the hydrogen peroxide? Do I want to remove the
loose stuff, or just swab the wound gently?

Have paper towels and Q-tips on hand. In a circular motion scrub the area,
go under and remove any loose scales around the edges. Rinse, dab dry, and
put in the Tricide Neo. This is all easier to do if you put the fish to
sleep with Finquel, but if you haven't had a class in using it, I'm
hesitant to suggest it. But if you want to try, I'll try to talk you thru
using it.

As far as the Tricide-Neo, put solution in a bag, then fish, and hold bag
up so fish is immersed. In reality it isn't as bad as it seems.

Or you could scrub, iodine, antibiotic-type ointment and denture adhesive
powder
(sorry, it wasn't till later I saw that it was the powdered form that is
suggested not the other version)
and wait 3 days while the fish is fasting so it doesn't mess up the
Tricide-Neo, but we could also lose precious time if we wait. If you choose
the above, you won't scrub it again prior to the Tricide-Neo dipping.

And DI water is just distilled water?

Yes. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Thanks for the info. I put in a few pieces of medi-carp when I put the
fish in the tank, and I only see one now, so it looks like the fish is
eating again. I'm going to take that as a sign that it's relaxed
enough for the next step. I'll do the hydrogen peroxide and Tricide-
Neo.

I have Finquel here, but I'm concerned that I won't notice if the fish
is in distress if I sedate it, so for this dip I'll keep it alert.
Given the reaction it had to the salt dip, I think that might be best.

I'm a little confused about the last part about fasting. Am I supposed
to stop feeding the fish while I'm treating it?

Thanks,

Dave

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:09:11 EDT, wrote:

I'm a little confused about the last part about fasting. Am I supposed
to stop feeding the fish while I'm treating it?
Dave

That's best, other wise they tend to crap in the Tricide-Neo and since you
have to reuse it for 2 more times, not good. I guess you can strain it thru
a coffee filter or something? I'm sure it is on the directions.

Back when I had my serious problem it was early spring before I'd started
feeding much, so the fish didn't have much in them or had quit eating
anyway. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Whew. Ok, I've cleaned and dipped the fish. We both survived, although
I think it was more stressful for me.

Photos at the usual place:
http://homepage.mac.com/pondstuff/PhotoAlbum1.html

I also included a left side shot that shows how much better the fish
is on that side.

Looking at the post-salt-dip shot and the latest right side shot, it
looks like the wound got pretty cleaned up by the hydrogen peroxide.
There wasn't a lot of loose matter to remove. I'm noticing more blood
in the fins now. I'm not sure if that happened before or during the
Tricide-Neo dip. The fish didn't seem to mind the dip at all.

The fish is active and PO'd at me.

I'm bringing the tank temp up to 78 F.

Dave

Well, morning came and the fish is still alive! It's swimming around
quite actively and looks pretty good. I still see blood in the tail
and fins. Most notably in the tail.

The water in the tank is a little cloudy this morning. I'm not sure if
that's a reaction from raising the temperature or if it's being caused
by the food from yesterday, but I'll do a partial water change in a
bit.