I'm trying to keep goldfish through this winter in a 50 gallon,
24 inch deep pond in Chicago. I know enough not to feed them. I'm
keeping the pump off so as not to force them to expend energy against
any current.

I was hoping for a mild winter, but a pretty bad cold spell has
meant a freeze-over for at least the last 35 days. I just augered
through about four inches and saw two fish of six at the surface of the
hole. I'd like to think if any are OK probably all are OK. But I wonder
if they are the only two survivors looking for oxygen.

My questions are these:
1. Do I need to make any effort to open
ice for oxygenation? Could the school have made 90 days?
2. At the end of Fall more tree leaves
got into the pond than I could control. I'm worried about their decay
consuming oxygen in the water. Will the cold inhibit the decay? Because
of the leaves, or for any other reason, should I be attempting a
mid-winter water change?

Thanks for any ideas.

"emceemc" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm trying to keep goldfish through this winter in a 50 gallon,
24 inch deep pond in Chicago. I know enough not to feed them. I'm
keeping the pump off so as not to force them to expend energy against
any current..........
===================
Your pond is too small and shallow for your location to leave fish over the
winter. A hole must be kept in the ice so gasses can escape. It would be
safer for you to bring the fish indoors for the winter,... unless you can
*keep a hole open* in the ice.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

the best chance for survival is going to be getting a 100 watt aquarium heater and
one of those cheap double outlet air pumps from Kmart. put the biggest 2 stones on
it you can find. you need to securely hang the water heater so it doesnt touch the
sides of the pond and then put the air stones over the top about 6 inches under the
surface of the water. put plastic over the top of the whole thing to keep the heat
(and water) in. check every day and top up with treated water.
BTW, HANG the pump so there are NO LOOPS in the tubing from pump to airstones because
water freezes in the air lines. Ingrid

"emceemc" wrote:

I'm trying to keep goldfish through this winter in a 50 gallon,
24 inch deep pond in Chicago. I know enough not to feed them. I'm
keeping the pump off so as not to force them to expend energy against
any current.

I was hoping for a mild winter, but a pretty bad cold spell has
meant a freeze-over for at least the last 35 days. I just augered
through about four inches and saw two fish of six at the surface of the
hole. I'd like to think if any are OK probably all are OK. But I wonder
if they are the only two survivors looking for oxygen.

My questions are these:
1. Do I need to make any effort to open
ice for oxygenation? Could the school have made 90 days?
2. At the end of Fall more tree leaves
got into the pond than I could control. I'm worried about their decay
consuming oxygen in the water. Will the cold inhibit the decay? Because
of the leaves, or for any other reason, should I be attempting a
mid-winter water change?

Thanks for any ideas.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

the best chance for survival is going to be getting a 100 watt aquarium heater and
one of those cheap double outlet air pumps from Kmart. put the biggest 2 stones on
it you can find. you need to securely hang the water heater so it doesnt touch the
sides of the pond and then put the air stones over the top about 6 inches under the
surface of the water. put plastic over the top of the whole thing to keep the heat
(and water) in. check every day and top up with treated water.
BTW, HANG the pump so there are NO LOOPS in the tubing from pump to airstones because
water freezes in the air lines. Ingrid

"emceemc" wrote:

I'm trying to keep goldfish through this winter in a 50 gallon,
24 inch deep pond in Chicago. I know enough not to feed them. I'm
keeping the pump off so as not to force them to expend energy against
any current.

I was hoping for a mild winter, but a pretty bad cold spell has
meant a freeze-over for at least the last 35 days. I just augered
through about four inches and saw two fish of six at the surface of the
hole. I'd like to think if any are OK probably all are OK. But I wonder
if they are the only two survivors looking for oxygen.

My questions are these:
1. Do I need to make any effort to open
ice for oxygenation? Could the school have made 90 days?
2. At the end of Fall more tree leaves
got into the pond than I could control. I'm worried about their decay
consuming oxygen in the water. Will the cold inhibit the decay? Because
of the leaves, or for any other reason, should I be attempting a
mid-winter water change?

Thanks for any ideas.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

Temps hit the high 30s today in a light rain so I chopped out all the
ice. I bailed and replaced about 75% of the water and found all fish
surviving.

I want to try this as minimalistically as possible, so I will auger
holes like Koi-lo suggests and not buy heaters and air stones. As I
know they can make a month, and now that the water is freshened, I feel
like I'm safe into mid-February. Then I could do a water change and
coast from there into the Spring.

With the way these six goldfish fought off racoons all summer and
handled this cold snap I'm starting to think there isn't anything they
can't do. I'll auger, but I will not bring them inside or buy anything.
It seems like cheating.

I have two koi and half a dozen goldfish in my pond, which is about
3 1/2 feet deep and about 8 ft x 4 ft. So it's larger than yours, but I
live in a colder climate - a couple of hundred miles north of Chicago, in
Wisconsin.

I was concerned about the cold spell too. We had a couple of weeks
when the temperature was below zero almost every morning, and did not go
above freezing for that whole time. Fortunately we had about 6 inches of
snow, so that provided a layer of insulation over the pond.

To heat the pond I have a small heater (25 watts?) that is intended
to keep a hole open. I also keep my submerged circulation pump running,
so that probably adds another 25 or 50 watts of heat flux.

I thought I lost all my fish because during one of our snow storm,
snow got into the electrical outlet and tripped the ground fault
interrupter. It was probably two days before I noticed that the surface
of the pond solidly froze over. Anyway, I reset the electrical outlet.
Then we had a thaw - daytime temperatures up to about 35 deg - and the
pond opened up. The fish I could see, 3 of them, looked okay. After I
finish typing this note, I'll go outside feed the rabbit, see if I can
find the cat, and check on the fish.

By the way, to cut through the ice I use a few gallons of boiling
hot water, not an auger.

As one egg benedict said to the other ... happy hollandaise!


Rich

After the pond freezes and you make a hole in the ice you can drain a couple
inches of water to make a air pocket between the ice and the water. This
air pocket will insulate and help prevent further freezing. You have no way
of judging the effect of leaves decaying or water quality so it is best to
be safe.

I never would have thought to create the air pocket. I will definitely
do it. Thanks for the idea.

wrote in
:

the best chance for survival is going to be getting a 100 watt
aquarium heater and one of those cheap double outlet air pumps from
Kmart. put the biggest 2 stones on it you can find. you need to
securely hang the water heater so it doesnt touch the sides of the
pond and then put the air stones over the top about 6 inches under the
surface of the water. put plastic over the top of the whole thing to
keep the heat (and water) in. check every day and top up with treated
water. BTW, HANG the pump so there are NO LOOPS in the tubing from
pump to airstones because water freezes in the air lines. Ingrid

When you "put plastic over the top," do you have some kind of framework to
suspend it? Or does it just lay on the surface?

I was thinking of floating bubble wrap on the pond. Any thoughts on that?

By the way, it's been so mild for the past week, right now my pond is ice
free. I hope it stays mild through Sunday; I may be going to the Packers
game in Green Bay.

- Richard in Neenah

When you "put plastic over the top," do you have some kind of framework to
suspend it? Or does it just lay on the surface?

Hopefully Ingrid will give you the website, but yes, she has a frame work

I was thinking of floating bubble wrap on the pond. Any thoughts on that?

Better to suspend it, otherwise it blocks air/gas exchange. I do similar
with vinyl screening, which does help retain some heat, but better is when
snow falls, I get the igloo affect.

By the way, it's been so mild for the past week, right now my pond is ice
free. I hope it stays mild through Sunday; I may be going to the Packers
game in Green Bay. - Richard in Neenah

Have fun. ) ~ jan

----------------
See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

http://weloveteaching.com/mypond/winters/winter.htm
yes, just some painted 2x4s
not good for oxygen exchange floating stuff on top.
Ingrid

Richard Tanzer wrote:
When you "put plastic over the top," do you have some kind of framework to
suspend it? Or does it just lay on the surface?

I was thinking of floating bubble wrap on the pond. Any thoughts on that?

By the way, it's been so mild for the past week, right now my pond is ice
free. I hope it stays mild through Sunday; I may be going to the Packers
game in Green Bay.

- Richard in Neenah



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://list.lovemyoldhome.com/web/wa.cgi?REPORT&z=3
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

~ jan jjspond wrote in
:

When you "put plastic over the top," do you have some kind of
framework to suspend it? Or does it just lay on the surface?

Hopefully Ingrid will give you the website, but yes, she has a frame
work

I was thinking of floating bubble wrap on the pond. Any thoughts on
that?

Better to suspend it, otherwise it blocks air/gas exchange. I do
similar with vinyl screening, which does help retain some heat, but
better is when snow falls, I get the igloo affect.


Thanks for the suggestion Jan. I made a crude framework over my pond
with lumber and stapled a clear plastic tarp onto the wood. I left the
bottom edge of the tarp loose to allow for some air circulation. I'll
see what happens when it rains or snows; if the tarp sags into the water
I'll either tighten it up and remove the slack, or take the tarp off.

If it works well, I'll have to monitor the water temperature so that I
know when to start feeding the fish.

Thanks again, and have a happy, healthy new year,

Rich

Thanks for the suggestion Jan. I made a crude framework over my pond
with lumber and stapled a clear plastic tarp onto the wood. I left the
bottom edge of the tarp loose to allow for some air circulation. I'll
see what happens when it rains or snows; if the tarp sags into the water
I'll either tighten it up and remove the slack, or take the tarp off.

Or poke a hole or two. )

If it works well, I'll have to monitor the water temperature so that I
know when to start feeding the fish.

Good time to get a wireless thermometer. Monitor it right from your desk.

Thanks again, and have a happy, healthy new year,
Rich

Ditto. ) ~ jan
~ jan/WA
Zone 7a

where do I get those??? today temp was 53o and I fed em again. Ingrid

~ jan jjspond wrote:
Good time to get a wireless thermometer. Monitor it right from your desk.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?...s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for
any of the recommendations I make.
AND I DID NOT AUTHORIZE ADS AT THE OLD PUREGOLD SITE

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 03:53:27 GMT, wrote:

where do I get those??? today temp was 53o and I fed em again. Ingrid

Good time to get a wireless thermometer. Monitor it right from your desk.

My guys got it from either Home Depot or Lowe's (hardware stores). This
particular one said something to the effect of monitor your outside air
temp and the water temp of your swimming pool from inside. One can hook up
as many as 3 remote units to the base station, so I could monitor the ponds
and a couple of quarantine tanks if I wanted. Springfield Precisetemp. If
you can't find anything locally:
http://www.premiereproducts.biz/prod...recisetemp.php

Btw, batteries don't always work too well in outside temps when it gets
really cold (so I was told). Currently my unit has gone down into the low
teens, son used Preserve-It on the contacts and I've had no problems. He
also mentioned a product called ProGold one can get from Radio Shack.
~ jan
~ jan/WA
Zone 7a