Gill Passman wrote:

I'm actually leaning towards the planned pond being occupied by
Shubunkins/Comets - the reasoning behind this being, that for now, I'm
not convinced that I would be able to build a large enough pond to house
koi.

Gill, there's no such thing as a pond in England that can't support "Koi or
Goldfish" - if you want to get into some of the fancier goldfish, it might
get dicey, but comets are going to be fine. There are good reasons to go
deep when raising koi, but it's not for the temperature.

Living in an area where we can get heavy frosts I need to carefully
consider temperature drops in the winter (although not to the extent of
those in even colder climates) - this winter has actually been very mild
but I can't count on this. Obviously the pond needs to be dug to a depth
below the frost line to prevent the whole thing from freezing solid.

Where's your frost line? In Ottawa, Ontario, one of our regulars did fine
with an 18" deep pond. The frost line there is well below 3' & weeks
of -20C temperatures are expected most winters. Koi & comets did fine in
my Ontario pond (which did reach 5') with 2' of ice on it.

From recent observations of the reservoir for my water feature coupled
with the depth of my old pond and how far that iced up I'm pretty sure
that I can get the depth to avoid a total freeze up.....but I am now
curious how low the temperature can drop at the bottom of the pond
without it adversely affecting the fish...

If it's liquid, they can survive. If it freezes solid, there are some
(possibly apocryphal) stories of goldfish surviving. Far more important
than the temperature is getting some oxygen in their when there's ice on
the surface for extended periods.
--
derek

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
Gill, there's no such thing as a pond in England that can't support "Koi
or
Goldfish" - if you want to get into some of the fancier goldfish, it might
get dicey, but comets are going to be fine. There are good reasons to go
deep when raising koi, but it's not for the temperature.

Brevity snip
==============================
Here in zone 6 I have several varieties of fancy goldfish that do just fine
outside year round. These are Moors, Orandas, water-bubble eyes, and
lionheads.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Derek Broughton wrote:

Gill, there's no such thing as a pond in England that can't support "Koi or
Goldfish" - if you want to get into some of the fancier goldfish, it might
get dicey, but comets are going to be fine. There are good reasons to go
deep when raising koi, but it's not for the temperature.

It was the actual depth and size of the pond that I was seeing as the
limiting factor here.....but of course, I'll also have to bear that in
mind if I go for the goldies to make sure that they have adequate space
to grow and move about.....

I have an area of the garden that would make a great Koi pond....problem
is that it currently houses the kid's outdoor play stuff and they will
fight me tooth and nail to keep the stuff for now - lol.....but there is
plenty of time when they grow out of it for digging my Koi pond....




Where's your frost line? In Ottawa, Ontario, one of our regulars did fine
with an 18" deep pond. The frost line there is well below 3' & weeks
of -20C temperatures are expected most winters. Koi & comets did fine in
my Ontario pond (which did reach 5') with 2' of ice on it.

That is interesting to know....our winters are nowhere near as severe as
the ones that you get in Canada.....I'm not sure exactly where the frost
line actually is and can only go on how deep I need to dig the garden to
get past the frozen soil - which IIRC is around 6" when the frosts are
at their worst....not that I make a habit of going out and digging the
garden in sub-zero temps too much :-)




If it's liquid, they can survive. If it freezes solid, there are some
(possibly apocryphal) stories of goldfish surviving. Far more important
than the temperature is getting some oxygen in their when there's ice on
the surface for extended periods.

Thanks
Gill