BV .... uh your obsessing ; I do know how you feel. I had
muddy water - with fish - for a year and was very upset
that my pond wouldn't clear. Then an article in Helen
Nash's mag ... (Pond and Gardens) talked about how the
Japanese established "muddy ponds" for growing out their
koi. WE're talking championship quality koi here! So, I
relaxed and enjoyed seeing my koi when I fed them. I tried
everything to help clear the water, including the stuff used
by the Missouri Dept of Conservation... and wouldn't you know
I can't remember the name??? Anyway, it didn't help either.
Then ,,,, as if by Magic ,,, the third summer my pond cleared
to gin clear!! So... all it took was tons of patience....

Nedra in Missouri
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"BenignVanilla" m wrote in
message ...
"John Rutz" wrote in message
...
snip
dina worry the clay will settle out I had the same problems when I built
my ponds (esp the first one) the clay particles are so fine that they
stay suspend ed for a fw weeks one way to speed it up if you have no
fish is to turn off all pumps so the water stays still,
but when you fire up the pumps again it will resuspend some clay but
that will settle in a day or three
snip

What I worry about is...adding fish...and then they stir it up
constantly...I want gin clear water...not OJ clear water.

BV.

BV,

Do a google of rec.ponds on gypsum and calcium carbonate to clear clay.
There have been a number of threads over the last year or so. I think they
were in connection with natural ponds, but clay is clay. If I am right,
then look at www.koivet.com for the pH pill. It is made with plaster of
Paris, which is gypsum and calcium carbonate. We might be able to clear
that water without the KoiClay, even though I would still use it for my
fish.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"BenignVanilla" m wrote in
message ...
"J.D. Stone" wrote in message
...
I thought maybe I'd try it as an external. Was going to build one anyway
so
I thought I'd try the gravel route. Cleaning would be a problem but I
don't
have to clean my filters too often. Would be nice to try some water
hyacinths again but hard to get.
Any DFW ponders composting any? I'd be glad to come pick 'em up! (sigh)
probably too early.
email: jdstone AT itexas.net
JD
http://www.nrgy.com/pond.htm

I wish I had green water. *sigh* I have so much clay in my pond, the algae
can't bloom. *laugh* I am still trying to find more on Bentonite to see if
will help...else...I'll just wait until the construction is done...drain
the
pond, clean out what I can, and start over...

BV.

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news
BV,

Do a google of rec.ponds on gypsum and calcium carbonate to clear clay.
There have been a number of threads over the last year or so. I think
they
were in connection with natural ponds, but clay is clay. If I am right,
then look at www.koivet.com for the pH pill. It is made with plaster of
Paris, which is gypsum and calcium carbonate. We might be able to clear
that water without the KoiClay, even though I would still use it for my
fish.

Thanks, I'll do that.

BV.

"Nedra" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
BV .... uh your obsessing ; I do know how you feel. I had
muddy water - with fish - for a year and was very upset
that my pond wouldn't clear. Then an article in Helen
Nash's mag ... (Pond and Gardens) talked about how the
Japanese established "muddy ponds" for growing out their
koi. WE're talking championship quality koi here! So, I
relaxed and enjoyed seeing my koi when I fed them. I tried
everything to help clear the water, including the stuff used
by the Missouri Dept of Conservation... and wouldn't you know
I can't remember the name??? Anyway, it didn't help either.
Then ,,,, as if by Magic ,,, the third summer my pond cleared
to gin clear!! So... all it took was tons of patience....

Patience? What's that? How much do I add to my water? How fast will it clear
it?

BV.

"Nobody you know" wrote in message
.. .
The Pea Green is driving me crazy G

My pond is 3 years old, and goes through this every year.
I am using "pond
blocks" but they are not working. I have a Tetra 2.5
gallon filter (pond is
about 650 gallons). I am working on convering a 50 gallon
preform into a
bio-filter. Hope that will help. The pond get a medium
amount of light,
some parts of the pond are in the sun all day.

Plants are starting to come up, and I have a little
hornswort and anacranis
(sp) in the upper 100 gallon area.

Will try to get some pics up on my website soon.

Ideas, suggestions???

Thanks
Marc

Can you erect shade over part of the pond to
block the sun for at least part of the day?

We have a 110 gallon stock tank w/ 2 goldfish,
2 shubunkins, 4 minnows, two very healthy
anacharis, 1 hardy lily, a couple bunches of
hornwort, a few trapdoor snails.

My husband built a rough cabana (2x4s, wood
trellis material) and we tacked shade cloth (Home
Depot, Lowes) on the top and two sides so that
the pond gets filtered sun/shade after noon.

The pond water remained greenish until I
installed a pump/fountain kit, then it cleared up
in a matter of days and has stayed that way.
I suspect I have accidentally stumbled onto
Balance (somewhat of a Holy Grail, yes?)
but I think the shade helps a lot.

Our +/- 200 gallon in-ground pond gets partial
shade from shade cloth for the killer afternoon
sun. Recent babies (minnow fry? tadpoles?)
in the thousands (rough estimate) seem to have
cleared the water but again, I suspect the shade
helps the process.

I know your pond is much larger than mine
but maybe you could build something that
would double as a human-friendly sitting area
as well as shading part of the pond.

Gail
San Antonio TX

ROFLOL!!! I knew we were pond twins.... I don't
have any at all or I'd send you some!

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"BenignVanilla" m wrote in
message ...
"Nedra" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
BV .... uh your obsessing ; I do know how you feel. I had
muddy water - with fish - for a year and was very upset
that my pond wouldn't clear. Then an article in Helen
Nash's mag ... (Pond and Gardens) talked about how the
Japanese established "muddy ponds" for growing out their
koi. WE're talking championship quality koi here! So, I
relaxed and enjoyed seeing my koi when I fed them. I tried
everything to help clear the water, including the stuff used
by the Missouri Dept of Conservation... and wouldn't you know
I can't remember the name??? Anyway, it didn't help either.
Then ,,,, as if by Magic ,,, the third summer my pond cleared
to gin clear!! So... all it took was tons of patience....

Patience? What's that? How much do I add to my water? How fast will it
clear
it?

BV.

"BenignVanilla" m wrote in
message ...
"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news
BV,

Do a google of rec.ponds on gypsum and calcium carbonate to clear clay.
There have been a number of threads over the last year or so. I think
they
were in connection with natural ponds, but clay is clay. If I am right,
then look at www.koivet.com for the pH pill. It is made with plaster of
Paris, which is gypsum and calcium carbonate. We might be able to clear
that water without the KoiClay, even though I would still use it for my
fish.

Thanks, I'll do that.

I did some quick research and found a few articles that offered advice on my
problem. Both suggest Alum, but warned of the pH problem. They also
suggested Calcium Carbonate which was described as not as quick acting as
Alum, but benign and would not effect pH. Sounds like Calcium Carbonate
wins.

My problem now is 1) finding a source of Calcium Carbonate, 2) determining
the amount I need for the pond.

BV.

"BenignVanilla" m
wrote:

"BenignVanilla" m wrote in
message ...
"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news
BV,

Do a google of rec.ponds on gypsum and calcium carbonate to clear clay.
There have been a number of threads over the last year or so. I think
they
were in connection with natural ponds, but clay is clay. If I am right,
then look at www.koivet.com for the pH pill. It is made with plaster of
Paris, which is gypsum and calcium carbonate. We might be able to clear
that water without the KoiClay, even though I would still use it for my
fish.

Thanks, I'll do that.

I did some quick research and found a few articles that offered advice on my
problem. Both suggest Alum, but warned of the pH problem. They also
suggested Calcium Carbonate which was described as not as quick acting as
Alum, but benign and would not effect pH. Sounds like Calcium Carbonate
wins.

My problem now is 1) finding a source of Calcium Carbonate, 2) determining
the amount I need for the pond.

BV.



The gypsum part of plaster of paris will cause clay to settle. The
calcium carbonate (lime) will not, and it will affect pH, buffering to
8.3. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it may impact nutrient
uptake by water lilies, etc.

Because alum can drop pH pretty hard, especially in low alkalinity
systems, lime is frequently added before alum treatment to buffer
against (fish) harmful pH swings.

In both cases (gypsum or alum), clay that clumps and settles can
resuspend due to activity of fish, etc.

The sweet thing about alum, when used properly, is that it not only
causes clay to settle, but it reacts with phosphates to form
relatively insoluable (not readily available to algae or plants)
aluminum phosphates. If repeated treatments are made, aluminum
concentrations can increase to levels that may be toxic to fish and
plants, so it is important to remove it from the pond: the floc that
forms can be mechanically filtered, removing clay, phosphorus, and
aluminum in one swoop. Alum, by the way, is commonly used for
polishing drinking water.

I did some quick research and found a few articles that offered advice on my
problem. Both suggest Alum, but warned of the pH problem. They also
suggested Calcium Carbonate which was described as not as quick acting as
Alum, but benign and would not effect pH. Sounds like Calcium Carbonate
wins.

My problem now is 1) finding a source of Calcium Carbonate, 2) determining
the amount I need for the pond.

Both Alum & Calcium Carbonate can put purchased at a pool/spa store. Alum
(aluminum sulfate?) is what is in the pond product called Accu-Clear by
Pond Care.

Personally I'd give patience a chance, with a bottom drain your clay will
soon be removed. Koi are pretty good housekeepers to keep the clay moving
towards that bottom drain and out of the pond. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
I did some quick research and found a few articles that offered advice
on my
problem. Both suggest Alum, but warned of the pH problem. They also
suggested Calcium Carbonate which was described as not as quick acting
as
Alum, but benign and would not effect pH. Sounds like Calcium Carbonate
wins.

My problem now is 1) finding a source of Calcium Carbonate, 2)
determining
the amount I need for the pond.

Both Alum & Calcium Carbonate can put purchased at a pool/spa store. Alum
(aluminum sulfate?) is what is in the pond product called Accu-Clear by
Pond Care.

Personally I'd give patience a chance, with a bottom drain your clay will
soon be removed. Koi are pretty good housekeepers to keep the clay moving
towards that bottom drain and out of the pond. ~ jan

I am leaning towards that now, just so I can avoid adding chemicals of any
sort. I just need to solve two issues...1) Get some Koi, 2) Once the BD as
sucked the clay to the VF, I need to get it to settle in the VF and not get
blown back into the pond.

I'd even be willing to set up a pre-filter for awhile if that would help.
Any ideas?

BV.

BenignVanilla wrote:
"~ jan" wrote in message
...

I did some quick research and found a few articles that offered advice

on my

problem. Both suggest Alum, but warned of the pH problem. They also
suggested Calcium Carbonate which was described as not as quick acting

as

Alum, but benign and would not effect pH. Sounds like Calcium Carbonate
wins.

My problem now is 1) finding a source of Calcium Carbonate, 2)

determining

the amount I need for the pond.

Both Alum & Calcium Carbonate can put purchased at a pool/spa store. Alum
(aluminum sulfate?) is what is in the pond product called Accu-Clear by
Pond Care.

Personally I'd give patience a chance, with a bottom drain your clay will
soon be removed. Koi are pretty good housekeepers to keep the clay moving
towards that bottom drain and out of the pond. ~ jan


I am leaning towards that now, just so I can avoid adding chemicals of any
sort. I just need to solve two issues...1) Get some Koi, 2) Once the BD as
sucked the clay to the VF, I need to get it to settle in the VF and not get
blown back into the pond.

I'd even be willing to set up a pre-filter for awhile if that would help.
Any ideas?

BV.



Why not try some window screening. Scrunch it up and put it
in the veggie filter. It can be seperated from the plants
by a section of egg crate light grid. (Another trip to Home
Depot.) It's a great mechanical filter and very easy to
clean. I have some in my veggie filter - got the idea from
Jan and Kathy.

--
Bonnie
NJ
http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/

"Bonnie Espenshade" wrote in message
...
snip
Why not try some window screening. Scrunch it up and put it
in the veggie filter. It can be seperated from the plants
by a section of egg crate light grid. (Another trip to Home
Depot.) It's a great mechanical filter and very easy to
clean. I have some in my veggie filter - got the idea from
Jan and Kathy.

What do you mean? Just ball it up and toss it in? Remember, my VF is just
another pond. It's one of those fancy schmancy above ground gizmo's all you
kids have these days. *laugh*

BV.

BenignVanilla wrote:
"Bonnie Espenshade" wrote in message
...
snip

Why not try some window screening. Scrunch it up and put it
in the veggie filter. It can be seperated from the plants
by a section of egg crate light grid. (Another trip to Home
Depot.) It's a great mechanical filter and very easy to
clean. I have some in my veggie filter - got the idea from
Jan and Kathy.


What do you mean? Just ball it up and toss it in? Remember, my VF is just
another pond. It's one of those fancy schmancy above ground gizmo's all you
kids have these days. *laugh*

BV.



I love the fact that you called me a "kid". My daughter
might agree with you, but my grandchildren might not. What
is your veggie filter shaped like? If it has a open area by
the outflow, make a pillowcase using the screening and fill
it with more screening and put it in the front of the
outflow. (The pillowcase idea came from K30a or Jan - not
sure.) Some folks use polyester quilt batt. The screening
is easily rinsed - quilt batt is more difficult.

--
Bonnie
NJ
http://home.earthlink.net/~maebe43/

"Bonnie Espenshade" wrote in message
...
BenignVanilla wrote:
"Bonnie Espenshade" wrote in message
...
snip

Why not try some window screening. Scrunch it up and put it
in the veggie filter. It can be seperated from the plants
by a section of egg crate light grid. (Another trip to Home
Depot.) It's a great mechanical filter and very easy to
clean. I have some in my veggie filter - got the idea from
Jan and Kathy.


What do you mean? Just ball it up and toss it in? Remember, my VF is
just
another pond. It's one of those fancy schmancy above ground gizmo's all
you
kids have these days. *laugh*

BV.



I love the fact that you called me a "kid". My daughter
might agree with you, but my grandchildren might not. What
is your veggie filter shaped like? If it has a open area by
the outflow, make a pillowcase using the screening and fill
it with more screening and put it in the front of the
outflow. (The pillowcase idea came from K30a or Jan - not
sure.) Some folks use polyester quilt batt. The screening
is easily rinsed - quilt batt is more difficult.

I tried something like this with cheesecloth and most of the mud fell back
in when I moved it. It never occurred to me to use something denser. I will
have to do that this weekend.

BV.

Bonnie wrote The screening
is easily rinsed - quilt batt is more difficult.

aaah, that reminds me of our quilt batt experiment.
Put a whole bunch of it in the stock tank, came to the conclusion this was a
bad idea. I decided to take it out and the stuff felt like it weighed 16 tons.
So I called together the troops - all small boys, ages seven to eleven, in the
neighborhood. Various sugary treats were promised as payment.
We hauled and hauled and heaved the stuff out
of the filter and into garbage bags. Then the boys hauled the garbage bags
across the lawn, through the garage and, the plan was, to heave them into the
big garbage containers.
One problem, one of the cars was parked in such a way as to block exit from the
garage. The boys, being creative problem solvers, put the car in gear and
pushed it out of the way.
Well it doesn't look like it but our driveway has a gentle slop towards the
street.
Here I am elbow deep in more soggy quilt batting and I hear this hollering,
'STOP, STOP, is there a CAR COMING?!?!'
The car managed to roll out of the driveway and across the street. Thank
goodness we don't live on a hill....


k30a