Hi all. I live in an apartment, and one day hope to have a house
with a large pond in the backyard. Till then, I was wanting to keep a
few Shubunkin or Koi in a smaller prefabricated liner inside. I
was considering this one listed here
http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/ponds/product.cfm?
CAT=30&SUBCAT=3006&PROD_ID=03007860010101

Would 2 shubunkin or koi be alright, and I was also thinking of
having some plants in there. What plants would be a good idea? I
don't mind if the fish nibble on them, so that's not a problem.

Anything else I should know about? I keep a few fresh water
aquariums, so am not new to keeping fish, just these kinds of fish.

Shade tolerant marginals

* acorus graimineus Ogon

* any aquatic grass

* Bowles Golden Sedge

* any clover

* dwarf bamboo

* Flamingo (variegated Water Parsley)

* horsetail rush

* Japanese Ribbon Grass

* Parrot Feather

* Pennywort

* spike rush

* any Taro

* Water Parsley (green)


Flowering shade Tolerant Marginals

* Bog Lily

* Chameleon Plant

* Creeping Buttercup

* creeping jenny

* creeping jenny gold

* Japanese Bog Orchid

* Ligularia 'Othello'

* Lobelia- Cardinal Flower

* Marsh Marigold

* mazus reptans

* Primula (Candleabra) japonica

* Spider Lily

(compiled by Patrica Sample)
k30a

Topaz wrote one day hope to have a house
with a large pond in the backyard

excellent, you can be a PORG* in training :-)

Go with the shubunkin and save the koi for later
(they really like at least 1000 gallons to start with and 100 additional
gallons for each koi - don't think your apartment could handle that...!)

I looked at the tub and it looks fine. You can put in a small bell fountain in
there and it would be very nice.
Plants - if they can get sun for at least half the day. Some folks use lights
for plants that are indoors (I rent my son's windowsill). Arrowhead does well
inside, some underwater plants. I grow anacharis all winter inside, and
hornwort.)

I'll post a list of plants that do well in shade so they should do okay inside
on the next post (is long).

PORG*
PORG - A term used on rec.ponds from time to time. If you are a Star Trek fan,
the Next Generation specifically, you might remember the evil Borg. Half living
creatures, half robots, flying around the universe assimilating new species
into their collective. Their favorite line, delivered in cold robotic voices,
is 'resistance is futile, you will be assimilated".
We rec.ponders feel the same way about ponding. Watch out you are about to be
assimilated into the Porg collective! We will be here to help with the details.
Remember resistance is futile....





k30a

Thank you so much for the quick reply and helpful answers. I think my bf is
worried that when we do get a house the backyard will look like one big bog
of some sort. He seems ok with my being obsessed over fish though, as long
as I don't ask him to help I am trying to convert him though.

The only good thing about not having a backyard right now is that by the
time I do have one, all the research and planing i have been doing will
finally be put to use, and I 'should' have a better pond than I would have
if I had just rushed out and done it on impulse.

For the plants I was thinking of having a stand over the liner with lights
on it for them. Still not sure what kind I want though. Do they all spread
and multiply? That way if they fish eat them, the others can just spead out
and i won't have to replace them.

I figure I'll need a filter? In my freshwater tank I use one of those
biowheel ones. can't think of the brand name right now. Would it be ok to
set up one or 2 of those on the side for filtration? Also, would an
airation rock be needed?

Anything else I should know about? And I had always wondered what PORG
meant. thanks for clearing that up.

I forwarded your post to jan.
She has an indoor pond.
(She also has a graduating senior tonight
and all the relatives so you probably won't
hear from her asap.)

I have an arrowhead plant indoors and it grew all over the tank. It was planted
in gravel. Others might do the same or get leggy depending on how much light
you can give them (happened with a mini cattail).

Water plants as a rule GROW a lot outside. And when not in pots spread
everywhere.

I know jan has a bucket filter with filter foam and charcoal and a bell
fountain. She can explain it better. But you might get the idea just from the
description as you keep fish already.

Anyone have an idea about artifical lighting?


k30a

If you keep the number of fish down, you probably won't need any filter.
The sides of the pond, the plant roots, and pot sides will develop into
filter area. I would run an air stone, just to keep the bottom water mixed
with the top water, and keep it from going stagnant. Keep measuring ammonia
and nitrItes, and after the pond has a chance to cycle, if you are getting
either, then it would be appropriate to get some other filter on the system.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


I figure I'll need a filter? In my freshwater tank I use one of those
biowheel ones. can't think of the brand name right now. Would it be ok to
set up one or 2 of those on the side for filtration? Also, would an
airation rock be needed?

Anything else I should know about? And I had always wondered what PORG
meant. thanks for clearing that up.

"RichToyBox" wrote:

If you keep the number of fish down, you probably won't need any filter.
The sides of the pond, the plant roots, and pot sides will develop into
filter area. I would run an air stone, just to keep the bottom water mixed
with the top water, and keep it from going stagnant. Keep measuring ammonia
and nitrItes, and after the pond has a chance to cycle, if you are getting
either, then it would be appropriate to get some other filter on the system.

I'd treat the small indoor pond, like a big aquarium, and get an
external canister filter. Something like the Magnum line comes to mind,
it can also be used as a diatom filter, to truely polish the water.

As you point out, with a low load, you don't much filter, so you don't
need a real big one.

Inside, a good size pleco will control algae.

Speaking of plecos, I used to always have at least one in my tank but
they never lived very long. The longest one I had was about seven
months. They sure did a great job of keeping the tank clean, just like
having a mini-Hoover in there. I always named them Mick Jagger or Steve
Tyler :-)

Plecos are very interesting fish to watch. My two cat sure were
entertained but like many people with aquariums, I never had much luck
keeping plecos alive. Never had any problems with goldfish, shubunkin,
comet or koi. I count on my two Whisper filters and once in a while
treatments with Jungle Labs "No More Algea" to keep my tank sparkling
clean.

Denise

Visit my gardens:

http://web1.in4web.com/mtcdrc

(Denise) wrote:

Plecos are very interesting fish to watch. My two cat sure were
entertained but like many people with aquariums, I never had much luck
keeping plecos alive. Never had any problems with goldfish, shubunkin,
comet or koi.

They are a tropical, so they are sensitive to water temp. 55-56 is the
lower limit they can stand.

They are a tropical, so they are sensitive to water temp. 55-56 is the
lower limit they can stand.


Yup, I did some checking out on that. Was also worried they would harm any
fish I have in there but was told if kept fed they should be ok, so I may
consider getting and putting one in. Is odd that I don't even have them in
my aquarium since so many do, but I find my bala's like eating off the
bottom, so didn't want to give them competition.

For the plants I was thinking of having a stand over the liner with lights
on it for them. Still not sure what kind I want though.

I have ponsai inside and houseplants look and work best, imo. Peace Lily in
particular, philodendrons and arrowheads types will easily adjust to water.
Just take cuttings and root them in tap water, after the roots get going
plant in a pot with rocks and place in pond. My Peace lily actually bloomed
in my ponsai, and does better there than the parent plant in a pot. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

I forwarded your post to jan.
She has an indoor pond.

Oh good, I found the right post. Been very busy this week, relatives and
graduation on Friday, relatives Saturday afternoon/evening and koi club on
Sunday. Any in between time and I was working in the yard. I am SO stiff
and sore this morning. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

RTB,

What's your best guessimate for a filterless lily pond ~ 900-1,000 gallons
w/spitter, in regards to how many fantails in the 3-4 inch size one could
put in there without problems? I'm hoping 5 or 6. What do you think, is
that stretching it? ~ jan

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 01:04:01 GMT, "RichToyBox" wrote:

If you keep the number of fish down, you probably won't need any filter.
The sides of the pond, the plant roots, and pot sides will develop into
filter area. I would run an air stone, just to keep the bottom water mixed
with the top water, and keep it from going stagnant. Keep measuring ammonia
and nitrItes, and after the pond has a chance to cycle, if you are getting
either, then it would be appropriate to get some other filter on the system.


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Jan,

If the fish are fed sparingly, or left to fend for themselves, I think that
at least 5 or 6, and maybe as many as a dozen (unfed) could be more than
happy with that much water. You will probably go through the cycle, just as
if you had a separate filter, but the bacteria will grow on any surface.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
RTB,

What's your best guessimate for a filterless lily pond ~ 900-1,000 gallons
w/spitter, in regards to how many fantails in the 3-4 inch size one could
put in there without problems? I'm hoping 5 or 6. What do you think, is
that stretching it? ~ jan

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 01:04:01 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

If you keep the number of fish down, you probably won't need any filter.
The sides of the pond, the plant roots, and pot sides will develop into
filter area. I would run an air stone, just to keep the bottom water
mixed
with the top water, and keep it from going stagnant. Keep measuring
ammonia
and nitrItes, and after the pond has a chance to cycle, if you are
getting
either, then it would be appropriate to get some other filter on the
system.


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Unfed and probably only add 1 every week or two to minimize cycle. As fish
get added taddy/frogs are hopping away, as the cycle of life continues.s
~ jan

On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 00:56:45 GMT, "RichToyBox"
wrote:

Jan,

If the fish are fed sparingly, or left to fend for themselves, I think that
at least 5 or 6, and maybe as many as a dozen (unfed) could be more than
happy with that much water. You will probably go through the cycle, just as
if you had a separate filter, but the bacteria will grow on any surface.


See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website