Update: We came home from work today and our Koi is still alive in the net.
His condition remains unchanged. He seems to only be able to move his
pectoral fins and seems paralized below them. All the other fish are fine.
I have a new theory as to what happend to him. I believe he may have gotten
stuck against the pump sock which has a PrimaXL 3400gph pump in it. Plus,
my wife dropped a few pieces of food in the net and he immediatly surfaced
and ate every piece. Now we don't know what to do. Please Help???

"Michael Grossman" wrote in message
news:1WxOa.7324$N7.957@sccrnsc03...
This morning has not started off well. I came out to my pond and found
one
of our Koi on his side on the bottom of the pond. I netted him and found
he
was still alive but unable to swim upright. He seems unable to move most
of
his fins. He is still in the net at the surface. He is one of 3
koi(4-5")
born from our koi 2 years ago. The other two seem fine along with the 3
larger koi(10-12"). And the 2 shubunkin are fine. I tested the water for
ph, nitrite, and ammonia. All are fine with a ph of just over 7.0. I did
top off the pond with probably no more than 50 gallons last night. But
the
pond is between 2000-2500 gallons. Plus we have well water, so there is
no
chlorine or any additives. The only other thing I can think of, is I
sprayed hornet and wasp spray up on our deck yesterday, but not in the
direction of the pond. I would think if this were the cause, the other
fish
would be effected as well. I will be sick if that were the cause. Just
when you think things are going ok. This is the second fish in a week and
a
half. We lost a koi a week ago to an osprey! There is no sign of any
physical damage to this fish. Any ideas?

Mike

I have a new theory as to what happend to him. I believe he may have
gotten
stuck against the pump sock which has a PrimaXL 3400gph pump in it. Plus,
my wife dropped a few pieces of food in the net and he immediatly surfaced
and ate every piece. Now we don't know what to do. Please Help???

I would be encouraged by his good appetite and willingness to go after food.
If a hospital aquarium (20-40 gallon using pond water) is not an option,
your net system will probably work well. You might cover the net with more
netting to protect him from predators. I'd continue to feed him, and give
him a week or so to heal. At the end of that time you will have an
indication of how things are going to turn out. He will either heal, or get
worse. If he stays exactly the same you will have to decide if you want to
keep a paraplegic fish, or euthanize him.

Bern,
My wife and I were just discussing the possibility of going out and getting
an aquarium to use as a hospital tank. You think 20-40 gallons would be
good? Using pond water wouldn't be a big issue. It's been over 10 years
since I kept aquarium fish. I used to have salt water then switched to
african ciclids. If I use pond water, the water will be ok. But what about
filtration. I don't have time to wait for a tank to cycle. I don't even
know where to begin now. 10 years ago, an undergravel filter with a few
powerheads and an external power filter that hung on the back of the tank
was all I used. For tonight I guess he will have to stay in the net until I
figure out what I need.

Mike

"Bern Muller" wrote in message
...

I have a new theory as to what happend to him. I believe he may have
gotten
stuck against the pump sock which has a PrimaXL 3400gph pump in it.
Plus,
my wife dropped a few pieces of food in the net and he immediatly
surfaced
and ate every piece. Now we don't know what to do. Please Help???

I would be encouraged by his good appetite and willingness to go after
food.
If a hospital aquarium (20-40 gallon using pond water) is not an option,
your net system will probably work well. You might cover the net with more
netting to protect him from predators. I'd continue to feed him, and give
him a week or so to heal. At the end of that time you will have an
indication of how things are going to turn out. He will either heal, or
get
worse. If he stays exactly the same you will have to decide if you want to
keep a paraplegic fish, or euthanize him.

Update: We came home from work today and our Koi is still alive in the net.
His condition remains unchanged. He seems to only be able to move his
pectoral fins and seems paralized below them. All the other fish are fine.
I have a new theory as to what happend to him. I believe he may have gotten
stuck against the pump sock which has a PrimaXL 3400gph pump in it. Plus,
my wife dropped a few pieces of food in the net and he immediatly surfaced
and ate every piece. Now we don't know what to do. Please Help???

"Michael Grossman" wrote in message
news:1WxOa.7324$N7.957@sccrnsc03...
This morning has not started off well. I came out to my pond and found
one
of our Koi on his side on the bottom of the pond. I netted him and found
he
was still alive but unable to swim upright. He seems unable to move most
of
his fins. He is still in the net at the surface. He is one of 3
koi(4-5")
born from our koi 2 years ago. The other two seem fine along with the 3
larger koi(10-12"). And the 2 shubunkin are fine. I tested the water for
ph, nitrite, and ammonia. All are fine with a ph of just over 7.0. I did
top off the pond with probably no more than 50 gallons last night. But
the
pond is between 2000-2500 gallons. Plus we have well water, so there is
no
chlorine or any additives. The only other thing I can think of, is I
sprayed hornet and wasp spray up on our deck yesterday, but not in the
direction of the pond. I would think if this were the cause, the other
fish
would be effected as well. I will be sick if that were the cause. Just
when you think things are going ok. This is the second fish in a week and
a
half. We lost a koi a week ago to an osprey! There is no sign of any
physical damage to this fish. Any ideas?

Mike

I have a new theory as to what happend to him. I believe he may have
gotten
stuck against the pump sock which has a PrimaXL 3400gph pump in it. Plus,
my wife dropped a few pieces of food in the net and he immediatly surfaced
and ate every piece. Now we don't know what to do. Please Help???

I would be encouraged by his good appetite and willingness to go after food.
If a hospital aquarium (20-40 gallon using pond water) is not an option,
your net system will probably work well. You might cover the net with more
netting to protect him from predators. I'd continue to feed him, and give
him a week or so to heal. At the end of that time you will have an
indication of how things are going to turn out. He will either heal, or get
worse. If he stays exactly the same you will have to decide if you want to
keep a paraplegic fish, or euthanize him.

Bern,
My wife and I were just discussing the possibility of going out and getting
an aquarium to use as a hospital tank. You think 20-40 gallons would be
good? Using pond water wouldn't be a big issue. It's been over 10 years
since I kept aquarium fish. I used to have salt water then switched to
african ciclids. If I use pond water, the water will be ok. But what about
filtration. I don't have time to wait for a tank to cycle. I don't even
know where to begin now. 10 years ago, an undergravel filter with a few
powerheads and an external power filter that hung on the back of the tank
was all I used. For tonight I guess he will have to stay in the net until I
figure out what I need.

Mike

"Bern Muller" wrote in message
...

I have a new theory as to what happend to him. I believe he may have
gotten
stuck against the pump sock which has a PrimaXL 3400gph pump in it.
Plus,
my wife dropped a few pieces of food in the net and he immediatly
surfaced
and ate every piece. Now we don't know what to do. Please Help???

I would be encouraged by his good appetite and willingness to go after
food.
If a hospital aquarium (20-40 gallon using pond water) is not an option,
your net system will probably work well. You might cover the net with more
netting to protect him from predators. I'd continue to feed him, and give
him a week or so to heal. At the end of that time you will have an
indication of how things are going to turn out. He will either heal, or
get
worse. If he stays exactly the same you will have to decide if you want to
keep a paraplegic fish, or euthanize him.

A simple and cheap "hospital tank" can be as simple as a large plastic
garbage pail.
Use pond water with added non-iodized salt and an air stone. The one I
have is 20 US gal or 77 liters.

Michael Grossman wrote:

Bern,
My wife and I were just discussing the possibility of going out and getting
an aquarium to use as a hospital tank. You think 20-40 gallons would be
good? Using pond water wouldn't be a big issue. It's been over 10 years
since I kept aquarium fish. I used to have salt water then switched to
african ciclids. If I use pond water, the water will be ok. But what about
filtration. I don't have time to wait for a tank to cycle. I don't even
know where to begin now. 10 years ago, an undergravel filter with a few
powerheads and an external power filter that hung on the back of the tank
was all I used. For tonight I guess he will have to stay in the net until I
figure out what I need.

Mike

"Bern Muller" wrote in message
.. .


I have a new theory as to what happend to him. I believe he may have


gotten


stuck against the pump sock which has a PrimaXL 3400gph pump in it.


Plus,


my wife dropped a few pieces of food in the net and he immediatly


surfaced


and ate every piece. Now we don't know what to do. Please Help???


I would be encouraged by his good appetite and willingness to go after


food.


If a hospital aquarium (20-40 gallon using pond water) is not an option,
your net system will probably work well. You might cover the net with more
netting to protect him from predators. I'd continue to feed him, and give
him a week or so to heal. At the end of that time you will have an
indication of how things are going to turn out. He will either heal, or


get


worse. If he stays exactly the same you will have to decide if you want to
keep a paraplegic fish, or euthanize him.

Dont worry about the filter, just aerate it well and do HUGE water changes
every day




"Michael Grossman" wrote in message
news:vLGOa.10804$N7.1583@sccrnsc03...
Bern,
My wife and I were just discussing the possibility of going out and
getting
an aquarium to use as a hospital tank. You think 20-40 gallons would be
good? Using pond water wouldn't be a big issue. It's been over 10 years
since I kept aquarium fish. I used to have salt water then switched to
african ciclids. If I use pond water, the water will be ok. But what
about
filtration. I don't have time to wait for a tank to cycle. I don't even
know where to begin now. 10 years ago, an undergravel filter with a few
powerheads and an external power filter that hung on the back of the tank
was all I used. For tonight I guess he will have to stay in the net until
I
figure out what I need.

Mike

"Bern Muller" wrote in message
...

I have a new theory as to what happend to him. I believe he may have
gotten
stuck against the pump sock which has a PrimaXL 3400gph pump in it.
Plus,
my wife dropped a few pieces of food in the net and he immediatly
surfaced
and ate every piece. Now we don't know what to do. Please Help???

I would be encouraged by his good appetite and willingness to go after
food.
If a hospital aquarium (20-40 gallon using pond water) is not an option,
your net system will probably work well. You might cover the net with
more
netting to protect him from predators. I'd continue to feed him, and
give
him a week or so to heal. At the end of that time you will have an
indication of how things are going to turn out. He will either heal, or
get
worse. If he stays exactly the same you will have to decide if you want
to
keep a paraplegic fish, or euthanize him.

No, dont get anything small. if you get anything get a 100 gallon rubbermaid and
netting, with a bucket filter .... otherwise he is better off in the pond. you dont
know what caused the problem and if you cannot keep the water pristine, he is better
off in the pond in a netted area.
since it is just a single fish that seems to be injured somehow, he could have been
scrounging on the bottom and hit a pocket of hydrogen sulfide (is the bottom of the
pond loaded with organics?) that will make em act pretty paralyzed. now, fish can
also injure their backs (or be injured), which will heal or not. and then there is
the occasional heart attacks, but usually they cannot use their left pec. fin.
If he is eating and doing OK in the pond (see if he appears to be pumping his gills),
leave him in the pond. Ingrid


"Michael Grossman" wrote:
My wife and I were just discussing the possibility of going out and getting
an aquarium to use as a hospital tank. You think 20-40 gallons would be
good? Using pond water wouldn't be a big issue.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

If you grab any rock that's under water from your pond and put it in the
tank it'll contain bacteria and will immediately cycle your tank.

"Michael Grossman" wrote in message
news:vLGOa.10804$N7.1583@sccrnsc03...
Bern,
My wife and I were just discussing the possibility of going out and
getting
an aquarium to use as a hospital tank. You think 20-40 gallons would be
good? Using pond water wouldn't be a big issue. It's been over 10 years
since I kept aquarium fish. I used to have salt water then switched to
african ciclids. If I use pond water, the water will be ok. But what
about
filtration. I don't have time to wait for a tank to cycle. I don't even
know where to begin now. 10 years ago, an undergravel filter with a few
powerheads and an external power filter that hung on the back of the tank
was all I used. For tonight I guess he will have to stay in the net until
I
figure out what I need.

Mike

"Bern Muller" wrote in message
...

I have a new theory as to what happend to him. I believe he may have
gotten
stuck against the pump sock which has a PrimaXL 3400gph pump in it.
Plus,
my wife dropped a few pieces of food in the net and he immediatly
surfaced
and ate every piece. Now we don't know what to do. Please Help???

I would be encouraged by his good appetite and willingness to go after
food.
If a hospital aquarium (20-40 gallon using pond water) is not an option,
your net system will probably work well. You might cover the net with
more
netting to protect him from predators. I'd continue to feed him, and
give
him a week or so to heal. At the end of that time you will have an
indication of how things are going to turn out. He will either heal, or
get
worse. If he stays exactly the same you will have to decide if you want
to
keep a paraplegic fish, or euthanize him.

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
If you grab any rock that's under water from your pond and put it in the
tank it'll contain bacteria and will immediately cycle your tank.
snip

Would plants do the same? I had a tank in my home office that was opaque
with green algae. I was going to clean it, but the only inhabitant, a pl*co,
was growing like crazy. He seemed to really like the water. I tossed in some
anacharis from the pond, and topped the water off. Within days, the water
was gin clear.

BV.

"BenignVanilla" m
wrote:

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
. ..
If you grab any rock that's under water from your pond and put it in the
tank it'll contain bacteria and will immediately cycle your tank.
snip

Would plants do the same? I had a tank in my home office that was opaque
with green algae. I was going to clean it, but the only inhabitant, a pl*co,
was growing like crazy. He seemed to really like the water. I tossed in some
anacharis from the pond, and topped the water off. Within days, the water
was gin clear.

Yep, everything in a pond or aquarium gets covered in bacteria.

It does help, otherwise it takes a couple of weeks for a bare sterile
tank to build up.

"John Hines" wrote in message
...
"BenignVanilla" m
wrote:

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
. ..
If you grab any rock that's under water from your pond and put it in
the
tank it'll contain bacteria and will immediately cycle your tank.
snip

Would plants do the same? I had a tank in my home office that was opaque
with green algae. I was going to clean it, but the only inhabitant, a
pl*co,
was growing like crazy. He seemed to really like the water. I tossed in
some
anacharis from the pond, and topped the water off. Within days, the water
was gin clear.

Yep, everything in a pond or aquarium gets covered in bacteria.

It does help, otherwise it takes a couple of weeks for a bare sterile
tank to build up.

I have always wondered about this. If I take a 55 gallon tank, and fill it
with 54 gallons of water, and a gallon of bleach, surely everything in it
will be dead. Agreed? So how...weeks later is it full of beneficial
bacteria? Is this bacteria airborne?

Inquiring minds want to know.

BV.

I just want to thank everyone on the newsgroup for their advise and support.
We moved our koi to a small preformed hospital pond yesterday. It's
probably 30-40 gallons. We used all water from the pond and put a few
hyacinths in too. The water is well oxygenated and I will keep a close eye
on the ammonia level. As far as the koi, there is no change in his
condition. I'm not real optimistic at this point that he will survive, but
I have seen stranger things. I just wish I knew what caused this so it
could be prevented.

Mike
"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
If you grab any rock that's under water from your pond and put it in the
tank it'll contain bacteria and will immediately cycle your tank.

"Michael Grossman" wrote in message
news:vLGOa.10804$N7.1583@sccrnsc03...
Bern,
My wife and I were just discussing the possibility of going out and
getting
an aquarium to use as a hospital tank. You think 20-40 gallons would be
good? Using pond water wouldn't be a big issue. It's been over 10
years
since I kept aquarium fish. I used to have salt water then switched to
african ciclids. If I use pond water, the water will be ok. But what
about
filtration. I don't have time to wait for a tank to cycle. I don't
even
know where to begin now. 10 years ago, an undergravel filter with a few
powerheads and an external power filter that hung on the back of the
tank
was all I used. For tonight I guess he will have to stay in the net
until
I
figure out what I need.

Mike

"Bern Muller" wrote in message
...

I have a new theory as to what happend to him. I believe he may
have
gotten
stuck against the pump sock which has a PrimaXL 3400gph pump in it.
Plus,
my wife dropped a few pieces of food in the net and he immediatly
surfaced
and ate every piece. Now we don't know what to do. Please Help???

I would be encouraged by his good appetite and willingness to go after
food.
If a hospital aquarium (20-40 gallon using pond water) is not an
option,
your net system will probably work well. You might cover the net with
more
netting to protect him from predators. I'd continue to feed him, and
give
him a week or so to heal. At the end of that time you will have an
indication of how things are going to turn out. He will either heal,
or
get
worse. If he stays exactly the same you will have to decide if you
want
to
keep a paraplegic fish, or euthanize him.

"BenignVanilla" wrote:

"John Hines" wrote in message
.. .
"BenignVanilla" m
wrote:

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
. ..
If you grab any rock that's under water from your pond and put it in
the
tank it'll contain bacteria and will immediately cycle your tank.
snip

Would plants do the same? I had a tank in my home office that was opaque
with green algae. I was going to clean it, but the only inhabitant, a
pl*co,
was growing like crazy. He seemed to really like the water. I tossed in
some
anacharis from the pond, and topped the water off. Within days, the water
was gin clear.

Yep, everything in a pond or aquarium gets covered in bacteria.

It does help, otherwise it takes a couple of weeks for a bare sterile
tank to build up.

I have always wondered about this. If I take a 55 gallon tank, and fill it
with 54 gallons of water, and a gallon of bleach, surely everything in it
will be dead. Agreed? So how...weeks later is it full of beneficial
bacteria? Is this bacteria airborne?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Yep. Same with algae. And yeast.