This past weekend I pulled my back out putting in a water pond in my
backyard. When it was installed I have to admit that I did find it
relaxing to sit on the back porch and listen to the water while doing
my devotionals. I actually felt pretty good about how it was turning
out.

Until Monday night...

Sherry and I were sitting downstairs watching the Tour de France when
suddenly lightning flashed outside the window and the thunder crashed.
It was a direct hit. It had hit my water pond! The pond was actually
lifted out of the hole and the water was just about all gone.
Fortunately we hadn't put fish in it yet or else we would be eating
fish sandwiches!

I have reinstalled the pond and checked into what contributed to my
shocking experience.

Could it be that by leaving the pump on during an electrical storm
that a negative charge was created that the lightning was attracted
to?

On 23 Jul 2003 21:13:22 -0700, (BargainTraveller)
wrote:

This past weekend I pulled my back out putting in a water pond in my
backyard. When it was installed I have to admit that I did find it
relaxing to sit on the back porch and listen to the water while doing
my devotionals. I actually felt pretty good about how it was turning
out.

Until Monday night...

Sherry and I were sitting downstairs watching the Tour de France when
suddenly lightning flashed outside the window and the thunder crashed.
It was a direct hit. It had hit my water pond! The pond was actually
lifted out of the hole and the water was just about all gone.
Fortunately we hadn't put fish in it yet or else we would be eating
fish sandwiches!

I have reinstalled the pond and checked into what contributed to my
shocking experience.

Could it be that by leaving the pump on during an electrical storm
that a negative charge was created that the lightning was attracted
to?

I cant answer your question but i had to say, WOW!

That is a shocking story, glad you were inside. I leave my pump on 24/7 as
they say, no direct hits yet. Lots of lighting storms to, but I do have a
plug in box with a breaker in the box itself as well as the master breaker
for the house. I don't think anything would of stopped that from happening.
Don't give up on the pond they are wonderful it's where I meditate and pray.
Kc
"jammer" wrote in message
...
On 23 Jul 2003 21:13:22 -0700, (BargainTraveller)
wrote:

This past weekend I pulled my back out putting in a water pond in my
backyard. When it was installed I have to admit that I did find it
relaxing to sit on the back porch and listen to the water while doing
my devotionals. I actually felt pretty good about how it was turning
out.

Until Monday night...

Sherry and I were sitting downstairs watching the Tour de France when
suddenly lightning flashed outside the window and the thunder crashed.
It was a direct hit. It had hit my water pond! The pond was actually
lifted out of the hole and the water was just about all gone.
Fortunately we hadn't put fish in it yet or else we would be eating
fish sandwiches!

I have reinstalled the pond and checked into what contributed to my
shocking experience.

Could it be that by leaving the pump on during an electrical storm
that a negative charge was created that the lightning was attracted
to?

I cant answer your question but i had to say, WOW!

BargainTraveller wrote:
This past weekend I pulled my back out putting in a water pond in my
backyard. When it was installed I have to admit that I did find it
relaxing to sit on the back porch and listen to the water while doing
my devotionals. I actually felt pretty good about how it was turning
out.

Until Monday night...

Sherry and I were sitting downstairs watching the Tour de France when
suddenly lightning flashed outside the window and the thunder crashed.
It was a direct hit. It had hit my water pond! The pond was actually
lifted out of the hole and the water was just about all gone.
Fortunately we hadn't put fish in it yet or else we would be eating
fish sandwiches!

I have reinstalled the pond and checked into what contributed to my
shocking experience.

Could it be that by leaving the pump on during an electrical storm
that a negative charge was created that the lightning was attracted
to?


--
Lightnin seems to hit whereever so I dont think anything you did or dint
do would have mattered, your just lucky it didnt blow all the
electronics in your house too ( i got hit and the surge came in phone
lines and elec lines and fried every apliance I had )




John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

(BargainTraveller) writes:

Could it be that by leaving the pump on during an electrical storm
that a negative charge was created that the lightning was attracted
to?

Perhaps having the pump plugged in grounded the pond and with dry dirt
it was the only thing really well grounded?

Do people have lightning rods around there? I'd get one if I were
you. Don't count on 'lightning never striking twice...'.

johnrutz wrote:

Lightnin seems to hit whereever so I dont think anything you did
or dint do would have mattered, your just lucky it didnt blow
all the electronics in your house too ( i got hit and the surge
came in phone lines and elec lines and fried every apliance I had )

My pond is on a GFSC (sic?) protected circuit. The only other thing on
that circuit are the other outdoor outlets.

Most people don't seem to be aware these days that surges can come
through phone lines and cable lines. I've known a few people who have
had their computers fried via a lightening strike carried into the
computer by the modem via a plugged in phone line. A lot of surge
suppressors these days have connectors for coax and / or telephone lines.

In our house phones, all cable connections, and electronics are on good
surge suppressors. A UPC protects the office computer equipment and the
laptop has a portable surge protector that stays permanently plugged
into the charger. My general rule of thumb is that if a surge
suppressor offers an equipment damage guarantee, it's decent. Problem
with real cheap ones is that they may not react quickly enough to stop
damage.

Guess I'm showing the conputer/electronics geek in me again. Mea culpa.

Susan
shsimko at duke dot edu

Susan H. Simko wrote:
johnrutz wrote:

Lightnin seems to hit whereever so I dont think anything you did

or dint do would have mattered, your just lucky it didnt blow
all the electronics in your house too ( i got hit and the surge
came in phone lines and elec lines and fried every apliance I had )

My pond is on a GFSC (sic?) protected circuit. The only other thing on
that circuit are the other outdoor outlets.

Most people don't seem to be aware these days that surges can come
through phone lines and cable lines. I've known a few people who have
had their computers fried via a lightening strike carried into the
computer by the modem via a plugged in phone line. A lot of surge
suppressors these days have connectors for coax and / or telephone lines.

In our house phones, all cable connections, and electronics are on good
surge suppressors. A UPC protects the office computer equipment and the
laptop has a portable surge protector that stays permanently plugged
into the charger. My general rule of thumb is that if a surge
suppressor offers an equipment damage guarantee, it's decent. Problem
with real cheap ones is that they may not react quickly enough to stop
damage.

Guess I'm showing the conputer/electronics geek in me again. Mea culpa.

Susan
shsimko at duke dot edu



-- all my electronics -- entertainment center,phones and computer are on
either tripple or quadrupls surge protectors due to the COOP's clunky
switching or our summer thunder storms, a couple months ago my power
pole got a direct hit, blew the transformer all over the yard
every thing in the house survived,





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Wow! That's one way to get rid of algae!

The pump should not have had anything to do with the strike. The way
you described the damage the strike may have gone from the earth up or
the pond is resting on or close to tree roots and the tree was hit.
Electricity does crazy things.


"BargainTraveller" wrote in message
om...
This past weekend I pulled my back out putting in a water pond in my
backyard. When it was installed I have to admit that I did find it
relaxing to sit on the back porch and listen to the water while
doing
my devotionals. I actually felt pretty good about how it was turning
out.

Until Monday night...

Sherry and I were sitting downstairs watching the Tour de France
when
suddenly lightning flashed outside the window and the thunder
crashed.
It was a direct hit. It had hit my water pond! The pond was actually
lifted out of the hole and the water was just about all gone.
Fortunately we hadn't put fish in it yet or else we would be eating
fish sandwiches!

I have reinstalled the pond and checked into what contributed to my
shocking experience.

Could it be that by leaving the pump on during an electrical storm
that a negative charge was created that the lightning was attracted
to?

John:
This question may be outdated by new regulations and modern technology but,
was there any discharge of PCB's due to the explosion of the transformer?
BK
"johnrutz" wrote in message
...


Susan H. Simko wrote:
johnrutz wrote:

Lightnin seems to hit whereever so I dont think anything you did

or dint do would have mattered, your just lucky it didnt blow
all the electronics in your house too ( i got hit and the surge
came in phone lines and elec lines and fried every apliance I had )

My pond is on a GFSC (sic?) protected circuit. The only other thing on
that circuit are the other outdoor outlets.

Most people don't seem to be aware these days that surges can come
through phone lines and cable lines. I've known a few people who have
had their computers fried via a lightening strike carried into the
computer by the modem via a plugged in phone line. A lot of surge
suppressors these days have connectors for coax and / or telephone
lines.

In our house phones, all cable connections, and electronics are on good
surge suppressors. A UPC protects the office computer equipment and the
laptop has a portable surge protector that stays permanently plugged
into the charger. My general rule of thumb is that if a surge
suppressor offers an equipment damage guarantee, it's decent. Problem
with real cheap ones is that they may not react quickly enough to stop
damage.

Guess I'm showing the conputer/electronics geek in me again. Mea culpa.

Susan
shsimko at duke dot edu



-- all my electronics -- entertainment center,phones and computer are on
either tripple or quadrupls surge protectors due to the COOP's clunky
switching or our summer thunder storms, a couple months ago my power
pole got a direct hit, blew the transformer all over the yard
every thing in the house survived,





John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

Lightning seeks earth ground. If a pond makes the better
connection from cloud to earth, then so is your excitement.
If miles of air did not stop lightning, then what difference
is a silly little power switch or even the mythical surge
protector. Lightning is not stopped, blocked, or absorbed
except in myths.

Franklin demonstrated effective protection in 1752.
Lightning must be intercepted and diverted to earth to not
find destructive paths through church steeple - or now through
electrical and transistorized appliances.

Protection for that pond would be a Franklin air terminal
(lightning rod). Sharp or blunt rod? Irrelevant. That air
terminal will only be as effective as its earth ground. Earth
ground (not a surge protector) is surge protection.

Others are still confused. They actually think a plug-in
UPS claims protection from such surges even though the
manufacturer makes no such claim. A UPS connects appliance
directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. No
protection there. Protectors only work when they connect the
incoming surge to surge protection - earth ground.

Again, nothing stops lightning. Lightning must be diverted
to earth before it enters a pond or a building. Telephone and
cable lines (are suppose to) have effective 'whole house'
protectors or equivalent - to do what Franklin air terminals
do. They earth the surge before it can enter the building.

But the one incoming line that typically has no such
protection is AC electric. Lightning to AC electric is, for
example, the most common source of computer modem damage.
Those who forget their elementary school science forget that a
surge must first form a complete circuit. Only then is
something in that circuit (ie modem) damaged. Nothing stops
that surge. But a 'whole house' surge protector connected
less than 10 feet to household central earth ground does
provide effective protection from direct lightning strikes.

This is but introductory. Further discussion among
engineers can be reviewed in the newsgroup misc.rural in two
threads:
Storm and Lightning damage in the country 28 Jul 2002
Lightning Nightmares!! 10 Aug 2002
http://tinyurl.com/ghgv or http://tinyurl.com/ghgm

Lightning may have struck the pond because a direct
connection existed to breaker box earth ground. We do know
that lightning struck that pond because pond was a best path
to earth. Since household appliances were not in that path (no
incoming and outgoing path through appliances as required by
elementary school science on electricity), then appliances
would not be damaged.

BargainTraveller wrote:
This past weekend I pulled my back out putting in a water pond in my
backyard. When it was installed I have to admit that I did find it
relaxing to sit on the back porch and listen to the water while doing
my devotionals. I actually felt pretty good about how it was turning
out.

Until Monday night...

Sherry and I were sitting downstairs watching the Tour de France when
suddenly lightning flashed outside the window and the thunder crashed.
It was a direct hit. It had hit my water pond! The pond was actually
lifted out of the hole and the water was just about all gone.
Fortunately we hadn't put fish in it yet or else we would be eating
fish sandwiches!

I have reinstalled the pond and checked into what contributed to my
shocking experience.

Could it be that by leaving the pump on during an electrical storm
that a negative charge was created that the lightning was attracted
to?

bobkiely (Remove NOSPAM) wrote:
John:
This question may be outdated by new regulations and modern technology but,
was there any discharge of PCB's due to the explosion of the transformer?
BK

no even tho we are rural as heck here they did get rid of all ther old
pcb transformers and mine was installed in 99


John Rutz
Z5 New Mexico

never miss a good oportunity to shut up

see my pond at:

http://www.fuerjefe.com

w_tom wrote:

Others are still confused. They actually think a plug-in
UPS claims protection from such surges even though the
manufacturer makes no such claim. A UPS connects appliance
directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. No
protection there. Protectors only work when they connect the
incoming surge to surge protection - earth ground.

While that is true, of the UPS units I've been shopping for, they have
surge protection built in as well. Check the specs.

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
protector. Lightning is not stopped, blocked, or absorbed
Others are still confused. They actually think a plug-in
UPS claims protection from such surges even though the
manufacturer makes no such claim. A UPS connects appliance
directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. No
protection there. Protectors only work when they connect the
incoming surge to surge protection - earth ground.


Well, I happened to have the paperwork from one of our APC UPS units right
here, and it says (in part): "Power line transients that APC products have
been designed to protect against, as recognized by industry standards,
include spikes and surges on AC power lines."

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC

Do those UPSes have surge protection? Which modes? Oh,
they forgot to mention there are different modes of surges?
What numbers do they list for each type of protection? Post
those specifications for a UPS that claims effective surge
protection. I have been reading those specs for decades. I
read the datasheets for components used to make surge
protectors. Where is this claim on plug-in surge protectors -
the URL?

As noted previously, they claim protection from one type of
surge. They don't claim protection from the surge that
typically damages transistors. Lying by telling half truths
will get a consumer to claim abilities that the manufacturer
does not even claim.

One plug-in protector, using same components in same
circuit, was more honest:
SL Waber EP63 Power Master
This Surge suppressor is not a lightning arrestor and may not
protect against lightning induced voltage surges.

Why would APC, using same circuit, do what SL Waber could
not? Quite frankly, APC does not claim that protection
either. A surge protector is only as effective as its earth
ground. No way around the most critical 'system' component -
earth ground - that Franklin demonstrated in 1752 and that
would be necessary to have protected that pond.

John Hines wrote:
w_tom wrote:
Others are still confused. They actually think a plug-in
UPS claims protection from such surges even though the
manufacturer makes no such claim. A UPS connects appliance
directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. No
protection there. Protectors only work when they connect the
incoming surge to surge protection - earth ground.

While that is true, of the UPS units I've been shopping for, they
have surge protection built in as well. Check the specs.

Which industry standard would that be? Computer Business
Equipment Manufacturer's Association? National Electrical
Code? Underwriter's Laboratory? CSA? ISO? FCC Part 68? US
Army's TM5-690?

Which type of transients does APC claim to protect from? As
stated previously, protection from a surge that typically does
not exist. They do not claim protection from surges that
typically damage electronics - or even ponds. So they make an
ambiguous statement about protecting from "some" spikes and
surges. They don't even say which ones, how long, or how
big. In typical 'junk science' reasoning, they fail to
provide numbers.

Lets look at one standard that a surge protector claims to
meet - UL1449 2nd Edition. UL does not test that anything
works. UL only tests for threats to human safety. Testing
for UL1449 does not care if the surge protector works or even
survives. Survival is not relevant to human safety. UL1449
is about protecting humans from dangerous conditions such as
shock and fire. UL1449 is not about testing to protect a
transistor.

Worded to make many think that UL1449 means a surge
protector is effective. Actually, a surge protector can meet
the criteria for UL1449 by making the protector less
effective. What kind of protection is that? One that does
not burn down the house but also does not protect
transistors. That is effective protection?

Real world surge protectors, such as Polyphaser, don't even
discuss their products in application notes. Instead they
discuss the most critical component of a surge protection
'system' - earth ground. Where does APC even mention earth
ground? Where does APC even ask the homeowner to verify that
most critical 'system' component? You have the paperwork.
Where do they discuss earthing - the component that even
Franklin demonstrated in 1752? APC is mute because they don't
claim protection from that type of surge - the surge that
destroys transistors. Missing statement from APC means they
don't even claim that protection.

You know a surge protector is not effective IF 1) it has no
dedicated connection to earth ground or 2) it avoids all
discussion about earthing. That APC is ineffective twice over
- meets both criteria for ineffective protector. Its called
lying by telling half truths. They make ambiguous statements
because they don't claim protection from surges that damaged
electronics. Where are the specs - with numbers - that claim
common mode surge protection? Real world protectors provide
those numbers.

Back to same concept - why lightning struck that pond is
also why Franklin demonstrated effective protection. Same
protection so well proven that your local phone company,
connected to overhead wires everywhere, need not shutdown
phone service for thunderstorms. All use the most critical
component in lightning protection. Be it a lightning rod over
the pond or a surge protector - effective protection is about
earthing a surge, which that APC UPS does not do and avoids
mentioning.

A surge protector is only as effective as its earth
ground. Polyphaser, an industry benchmark, discusses earthing
extensively in application notes. Where did APC even mention
the word 'earth' even once? Where do they put numbers to
their claims. Where do they even specify which industry
standards? They meet the standard that says the surge
protector will not kill you - human protection. Where is the
claim for transistor protection?. No earth ground means no
effective protection - as was well proven even in 1930s
research papers.

One electronic device essential to ponds and easily
destroyed by surges is that GFCI. Just another reason why
'whole house' protector is important and why a lightning rod
over that pond might be considered (depending on the frequency
of CG lightning).


Anne Lurie wrote:

"w_tom" wrote in message
...
Lightning is not stopped, blocked, or absorbed. Others are
still confused. They actually think a plug-in UPS claims
protection from such surges even though the manufacturer makes
no such claim. A UPS connects appliance directly to AC mains
when not in battery backup mode. No protection there.
Protectors only work when they connect the incoming surge to
surge protection - earth ground.

Well, I happened to have the paperwork from one of our APC UPS
units right here, and it says (in part): "Power line transients
that APC products have been designed to protect against, as
recognized by industry standards, include spikes and surges on
AC power lines."

Anne Lurie
Raleigh, NC