Hello all,
Currently my pond temp. has dropped to 50 deg. Would now be the correct time to
shut down my bio-filter/ falls for the winter? Or should I wait as the weather
may yet again get warmer and heat the pond above 50 deg. again?
Thanks,
Pat

Temperature

The temperature for optimum growth of nitrifying bacteria is between 77-86°
F (25-30° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 50% at 64° F (18° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 75% at 46-50° F.
No activity will occur at 39° F (4° C)
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 32° F (0° C).
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 120° F (49° C)
Nitrospira is less tolerant of low temperatures than Nitrosomonas. In cold
water systems, care must be taken to monitor the accumulation of nitrites.

pH

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.2-8.0.
The optimum pH range for Nitrospira is between 7.4-8.2
Nitrosomonas growth is inhibited at a pH of 6.5. All nitrification is
inhibited if the pH drops to 6.0 or less. Care must be taken to monitor
ammonia if the pH begins to drop close to 6.5. At this pH almost all of the
ammonia present in the water will be in the mildly toxic, ionized NH3+
state.

Dissolved Oxygen

Maximum nitrification rates will exist if dissolved oxygen (DO) levels
exceed 80% saturation. Nitrification will not occur if DO concentrations
drop to 2.0 mg/l (ppm) or less. Nitrospira is more strongly affected by low
DO than NITROSOMONAS.


"O3raledale" wrote in message
...
Hello all,
Currently my pond temp. has dropped to 50 deg. Would now be the correct
time to
shut down my bio-filter/ falls for the winter? Or should I wait as the
weather
may yet again get warmer and heat the pond above 50 deg. again?
Thanks,
Pat

On 06 Oct 2003 21:43:29 GMT, (O3raledale) wrote:

Hello all,
Currently my pond temp. has dropped to 50 deg. Would now be the correct time to
shut down my bio-filter/ falls for the winter? Or should I wait as the weather
may yet again get warmer and heat the pond above 50 deg. again?
Thanks,
Pat

I usually wait till the pond temps are in the 40s and weather.com says it
is very unlikely the temps are coming back up. ~ jan
See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Defrosted~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Is that a "yes" or "no"....

grynning...

--
~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

john burton
Bach 50B3
Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra
South Charleston, West Virginia

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
Temperature

The temperature for optimum growth of nitrifying bacteria is between
77-86°
F (25-30° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 50% at 64° F (18° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 75% at 46-50° F.
No activity will occur at 39° F (4° C)
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 32° F (0° C).
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 120° F (49° C)
Nitrospira is less tolerant of low temperatures than Nitrosomonas. In cold
water systems, care must be taken to monitor the accumulation of nitrites.

pH

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.2-8.0.
The optimum pH range for Nitrospira is between 7.4-8.2
Nitrosomonas growth is inhibited at a pH of 6.5. All nitrification is
inhibited if the pH drops to 6.0 or less. Care must be taken to monitor
ammonia if the pH begins to drop close to 6.5. At this pH almost all of
the
ammonia present in the water will be in the mildly toxic, ionized NH3+
state.

Dissolved Oxygen

Maximum nitrification rates will exist if dissolved oxygen (DO) levels
exceed 80% saturation. Nitrification will not occur if DO concentrations
drop to 2.0 mg/l (ppm) or less. Nitrospira is more strongly affected by
low
DO than NITROSOMONAS.


"O3raledale" wrote in message
...
Hello all,
Currently my pond temp. has dropped to 50 deg. Would now be the correct
time to
shut down my bio-filter/ falls for the winter? Or should I wait as the
weather
may yet again get warmer and heat the pond above 50 deg. again?
Thanks,
Pat

Ditto
"John Burton" wrote in message
...
Is that a "yes" or "no"....

grynning...

--
~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

john burton
Bach 50B3
Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra
South Charleston, West Virginia

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
Temperature

The temperature for optimum growth of nitrifying bacteria is between
77-86°
F (25-30° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 50% at 64° F (18° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 75% at 46-50° F.
No activity will occur at 39° F (4° C)
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 32° F (0° C).
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 120° F (49° C)
Nitrospira is less tolerant of low temperatures than Nitrosomonas. In
cold
water systems, care must be taken to monitor the accumulation of
nitrites.

pH

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.2-8.0.
The optimum pH range for Nitrospira is between 7.4-8.2
Nitrosomonas growth is inhibited at a pH of 6.5. All nitrification is
inhibited if the pH drops to 6.0 or less. Care must be taken to monitor
ammonia if the pH begins to drop close to 6.5. At this pH almost all of
the
ammonia present in the water will be in the mildly toxic, ionized NH3+
state.

Dissolved Oxygen

Maximum nitrification rates will exist if dissolved oxygen (DO) levels
exceed 80% saturation. Nitrification will not occur if DO concentrations
drop to 2.0 mg/l (ppm) or less. Nitrospira is more strongly affected by
low
DO than NITROSOMONAS.


"O3raledale" wrote in message
...
Hello all,
Currently my pond temp. has dropped to 50 deg. Would now be the
correct
time to
shut down my bio-filter/ falls for the winter? Or should I wait as the
weather
may yet again get warmer and heat the pond above 50 deg. again?
Thanks,
Pat

The bacteria will continue to do their job until the water temp reaches 39
degrees. They will pause between 32 and 39. So if your temp is going from
say 35 to 50 I'd leave it on. If it starts staying under 39 you can turn it
off.

"John Burton" wrote in message
...
Is that a "yes" or "no"....

grynning...

--
~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

john burton
Bach 50B3
Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra
South Charleston, West Virginia

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
Temperature

The temperature for optimum growth of nitrifying bacteria is between
77-86°
F (25-30° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 50% at 64° F (18° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 75% at 46-50° F.
No activity will occur at 39° F (4° C)
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 32° F (0° C).
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 120° F (49° C)
Nitrospira is less tolerant of low temperatures than Nitrosomonas. In
cold
water systems, care must be taken to monitor the accumulation of
nitrites.

pH

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.2-8.0.
The optimum pH range for Nitrospira is between 7.4-8.2
Nitrosomonas growth is inhibited at a pH of 6.5. All nitrification is
inhibited if the pH drops to 6.0 or less. Care must be taken to monitor
ammonia if the pH begins to drop close to 6.5. At this pH almost all of
the
ammonia present in the water will be in the mildly toxic, ionized NH3+
state.

Dissolved Oxygen

Maximum nitrification rates will exist if dissolved oxygen (DO) levels
exceed 80% saturation. Nitrification will not occur if DO concentrations
drop to 2.0 mg/l (ppm) or less. Nitrospira is more strongly affected by
low
DO than NITROSOMONAS.


"O3raledale" wrote in message
...
Hello all,
Currently my pond temp. has dropped to 50 deg. Would now be the
correct
time to
shut down my bio-filter/ falls for the winter? Or should I wait as the
weather
may yet again get warmer and heat the pond above 50 deg. again?
Thanks,
Pat

Thanks Sam
"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
The bacteria will continue to do their job until the water temp reaches 39
degrees. They will pause between 32 and 39. So if your temp is going from
say 35 to 50 I'd leave it on. If it starts staying under 39 you can turn
it
off.

"John Burton" wrote in message
...
Is that a "yes" or "no"....

grynning...

--
~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

john burton
Bach 50B3
Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra
South Charleston, West Virginia

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
Temperature

The temperature for optimum growth of nitrifying bacteria is between
77-86°
F (25-30° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 50% at 64° F (18° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 75% at 46-50° F.
No activity will occur at 39° F (4° C)
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 32° F (0° C).
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 120° F (49° C)
Nitrospira is less tolerant of low temperatures than Nitrosomonas. In
cold
water systems, care must be taken to monitor the accumulation of
nitrites.

pH

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.2-8.0.
The optimum pH range for Nitrospira is between 7.4-8.2
Nitrosomonas growth is inhibited at a pH of 6.5. All nitrification is
inhibited if the pH drops to 6.0 or less. Care must be taken to
monitor
ammonia if the pH begins to drop close to 6.5. At this pH almost all
of
the
ammonia present in the water will be in the mildly toxic, ionized NH3+
state.

Dissolved Oxygen

Maximum nitrification rates will exist if dissolved oxygen (DO) levels
exceed 80% saturation. Nitrification will not occur if DO
concentrations
drop to 2.0 mg/l (ppm) or less. Nitrospira is more strongly affected
by
low
DO than NITROSOMONAS.


"O3raledale" wrote in message
...
Hello all,
Currently my pond temp. has dropped to 50 deg. Would now be the
correct
time to
shut down my bio-filter/ falls for the winter? Or should I wait as
the
weather
may yet again get warmer and heat the pond above 50 deg. again?
Thanks,
Pat

Sam,

It's in a way funny to read how much there can be "cultural" differences on
this matter... let me explain: at least with Koi ponds, most Dutch/Belgian
people would advise you to never turn off your filter in winter, and some of
the reasons for this are valid for "ornamental" or "other fish" ponds as
well IMHO. (I think The Netherlands/Belgium are in "zone 7 BTW" )

Even though the bacteria will go in a dormant state at the temps you
mention, they at least do survive. Shutting off the pumps/aeration will
kill them off, and in spring you start all over again with a biologically
dead filter. (or worse, the dead bacteria actually turn into a toxic mulm
if you don't meticulously clean the filter/pipes before startup again)

So the "consensus" for the Dutch is to keep the biofiltration running,
albeit with a reduced flow. This way the biofilter will start up faster
and without funny nitrite spikes you often see with a new filter/biofilm.

Mind you, I'm not saying it's the absolute truth, but quite a lot of people
with 10 years plus experience in koi keeping would not even dream of turning
off their filters.

It does bring along other problems of course, so often these ponders will
cover their pond and often use heating to keep the temps "consistent".

Of course this all depends on things like budget, overstocking, price of
their fish etc, one may not want to do this "overkill" on say 2 goldfish
(although, you want them happy anyway...). They also have considerations
like being able to feed throughout the year (higher growth), avoiding the
10 - 15 °C "aeromonas alley" etc, so it's important to emphasize that a big
koi pond is of course not the same as a small ornamental pond.

Still (I'll keep it short LOL), I think it's fair to say that you destroy
your carefully built-up biofilm by shutting everthing down, and people with
lots of algae problems or dying fish in spring might want to take this
"different" approach into consideration. We all know about the "1st year"
syndrome, and perhaps the reason why it's not so bad the second year is that
the bacteria *in* the pond at least survive somewhat.

Thought it was interesting to mention this amidst all these "winterizing"
threads

Theo


"Sam Hopkins" schreef in bericht
.. .
The bacteria will continue to do their job until the water temp reaches 39
degrees. They will pause between 32 and 39. So if your temp is going from
say 35 to 50 I'd leave it on. If it starts staying under 39 you can turn
it
off.

I'm not sure that these bacteria die with lack of O2 and food. These
bacteria are sold in a liquid state in a bottle that is chilled at 35ish
degrees to make them dormant. The company that sells these bacteria is owned
by the guy who discovered these bacteria. Only this company can sell them
because they have the patent. That's why when you buy those bacteria
additives you are just wasting your money - they don't contain the bacteria
responsible for nitrification because by law they cant.

Sam


"Theo van Daele" wrote in message
...
Sam,

It's in a way funny to read how much there can be "cultural" differences
on
this matter... let me explain: at least with Koi ponds, most
Dutch/Belgian
people would advise you to never turn off your filter in winter, and some
of
the reasons for this are valid for "ornamental" or "other fish" ponds as
well IMHO. (I think The Netherlands/Belgium are in "zone 7 BTW" )

Even though the bacteria will go in a dormant state at the temps you
mention, they at least do survive. Shutting off the pumps/aeration will
kill them off, and in spring you start all over again with a biologically
dead filter. (or worse, the dead bacteria actually turn into a toxic mulm
if you don't meticulously clean the filter/pipes before startup again)

So the "consensus" for the Dutch is to keep the biofiltration running,
albeit with a reduced flow. This way the biofilter will start up faster
and without funny nitrite spikes you often see with a new filter/biofilm.

Mind you, I'm not saying it's the absolute truth, but quite a lot of
people
with 10 years plus experience in koi keeping would not even dream of
turning
off their filters.

It does bring along other problems of course, so often these ponders will
cover their pond and often use heating to keep the temps "consistent".

Of course this all depends on things like budget, overstocking, price of
their fish etc, one may not want to do this "overkill" on say 2 goldfish
(although, you want them happy anyway...). They also have considerations
like being able to feed throughout the year (higher growth), avoiding the
10 - 15 °C "aeromonas alley" etc, so it's important to emphasize that a
big
koi pond is of course not the same as a small ornamental pond.

Still (I'll keep it short LOL), I think it's fair to say that you destroy
your carefully built-up biofilm by shutting everthing down, and people
with
lots of algae problems or dying fish in spring might want to take this
"different" approach into consideration. We all know about the "1st
year"
syndrome, and perhaps the reason why it's not so bad the second year is
that
the bacteria *in* the pond at least survive somewhat.

Thought it was interesting to mention this amidst all these "winterizing"
threads

Theo


"Sam Hopkins" schreef in bericht
.. .
The bacteria will continue to do their job until the water temp reaches
39
degrees. They will pause between 32 and 39. So if your temp is going
from
say 35 to 50 I'd leave it on. If it starts staying under 39 you can turn
it
off.

Thank you. I understand now...

off to WalMart to buy a thermometer..

--
~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

john burton
Bach 50B3
Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra
South Charleston, West Virginia

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
The bacteria will continue to do their job until the water temp reaches 39
degrees. They will pause between 32 and 39. So if your temp is going from
say 35 to 50 I'd leave it on. If it starts staying under 39 you can turn
it
off.

"John Burton" wrote in message
...
Is that a "yes" or "no"....

grynning...

--
~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

john burton
Bach 50B3
Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra
South Charleston, West Virginia

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
Temperature

The temperature for optimum growth of nitrifying bacteria is between
77-86°
F (25-30° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 50% at 64° F (18° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 75% at 46-50° F.
No activity will occur at 39° F (4° C)
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 32° F (0° C).
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 120° F (49° C)
Nitrospira is less tolerant of low temperatures than Nitrosomonas. In
cold
water systems, care must be taken to monitor the accumulation of
nitrites.

pH

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.2-8.0.
The optimum pH range for Nitrospira is between 7.4-8.2
Nitrosomonas growth is inhibited at a pH of 6.5. All nitrification is
inhibited if the pH drops to 6.0 or less. Care must be taken to
monitor
ammonia if the pH begins to drop close to 6.5. At this pH almost all
of
the
ammonia present in the water will be in the mildly toxic, ionized NH3+
state.

Dissolved Oxygen

Maximum nitrification rates will exist if dissolved oxygen (DO) levels
exceed 80% saturation. Nitrification will not occur if DO
concentrations
drop to 2.0 mg/l (ppm) or less. Nitrospira is more strongly affected
by
low
DO than NITROSOMONAS.


"O3raledale" wrote in message
...
Hello all,
Currently my pond temp. has dropped to 50 deg. Would now be the
correct
time to
shut down my bio-filter/ falls for the winter? Or should I wait as
the
weather
may yet again get warmer and heat the pond above 50 deg. again?
Thanks,
Pat

Thank you. I understand now...

off to WalMart to buy a thermometer..

--
~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

john burton
Bach 50B3
Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra
South Charleston, West Virginia

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
The bacteria will continue to do their job until the water temp reaches 39
degrees. They will pause between 32 and 39. So if your temp is going from
say 35 to 50 I'd leave it on. If it starts staying under 39 you can turn
it
off.

"John Burton" wrote in message
...
Is that a "yes" or "no"....

grynning...

--
~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

john burton
Bach 50B3
Bass Trombone, Charleston NeoPhonic Orchestra
South Charleston, West Virginia

"Sam Hopkins" wrote in message
.. .
Temperature

The temperature for optimum growth of nitrifying bacteria is between
77-86°
F (25-30° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 50% at 64° F (18° C).
Growth rate is decreased by 75% at 46-50° F.
No activity will occur at 39° F (4° C)
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 32° F (0° C).
Nitrifying bacteria will die at 120° F (49° C)
Nitrospira is less tolerant of low temperatures than Nitrosomonas. In
cold
water systems, care must be taken to monitor the accumulation of
nitrites.

pH

The optimum pH range for Nitrosomonas is between 7.2-8.0.
The optimum pH range for Nitrospira is between 7.4-8.2
Nitrosomonas growth is inhibited at a pH of 6.5. All nitrification is
inhibited if the pH drops to 6.0 or less. Care must be taken to
monitor
ammonia if the pH begins to drop close to 6.5. At this pH almost all
of
the
ammonia present in the water will be in the mildly toxic, ionized NH3+
state.

Dissolved Oxygen

Maximum nitrification rates will exist if dissolved oxygen (DO) levels
exceed 80% saturation. Nitrification will not occur if DO
concentrations
drop to 2.0 mg/l (ppm) or less. Nitrospira is more strongly affected
by
low
DO than NITROSOMONAS.


"O3raledale" wrote in message
...
Hello all,
Currently my pond temp. has dropped to 50 deg. Would now be the
correct
time to
shut down my bio-filter/ falls for the winter? Or should I wait as
the
weather
may yet again get warmer and heat the pond above 50 deg. again?
Thanks,
Pat

Thanks to all for the replys to this thread.
-Pat