I've seen a tremendous amount of conflicting advice on pump sizing. An
afternoon of reading all this has left me confused. We are installing a
small (700 gallons, 3 feet deep, US zone 7a) pond and would like a few
fish, mainly plants though. I've got a few questions if anyone has the time.
Too small for a koi or two?
Should water turn-over be 2-3 times an hour as some sites suggest
(that's a lot of water to move)?
Why are there not any pond pump head calculators out there? Can I just
not find them? If there really aren't any, and if someone would point
out someplace I can get reliable numbers and equations, I will throw one
together if someone has a place to put it. It will be rainy this
weekend and I need something to do.

Mark B.

On 5/13/04 12:55 PM, "Mark Bannister"
wrote:

Too small for a koi or two?
They wouldn't be happy, and if you want primarily a plant pond you won't be
either - they make a mess of plants. Get goldfish.

Should water turn-over be 2-3 times an hour as some sites suggest
(that's a lot of water to move)?
Mine turns over once an hour (4000-5000 gallons) IMHO, turn over rate can be
less for a larger pond.

Why are there not any pond pump head calculators out there? Can I just
not find them?
Head loss is really specific to the manufacturer of the pump. Go to their
web sites and most will give a graphic illustration of head loss.


Hope that helps

Joe



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Thanks for the responses. Pond is a formal block pond, roughly 8.5'x4'x
3' deep. Block will be sealed with Hetch rubber sealer and then tiled
with granite. There is a planter running the length of the back
8.5x1x1.5 which will be hold plants. A dividing wall lower than the
water level will separate the two areas.
The pump will be in the garage and is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. There are
two inlet lines and 1 return line. One inlet goes into the planting
area, the other about 2' down into the main area. On the opposite wall
the return line will split, one end going to the bottom of the pond, the
other to a skimmer.
I have small, .5", lines run for water features that I may add later.
They would be only 2' above the pump at most and would add little to the
head pressure.

I've looked at MANY pumps. I won't skimp here. I work in manufacturing
and understand price/performance/cost issues. I lately looked at the
Supreme pumps but they seem pretty cheap (price wise). I was hoping to
spend less than $500 on the pump.

Filter. That's still open. Local dealer is trying to sell me a small
vortex type filter. It has a small amount of media in the bottom and you
can add a UV light to it easily. I forget the brand. How could a
biological filter work with a UV light? It looks like it would take a
lot of filter cleaning, but it is small and tidy. Because this is a
formal pond clarity will be important. The pond will also be still on
the surface so I will have to have aeration with the filter.
I could always build a filter and put it next to the pump. I had
already planned to have some sort of reservoir in the garage to add
make-up water using a valve. (BTW, Home Depot sells a plastic sump well
and lid for french drains for $25+. It looks like it would make a handy
filter tank. It's about 3' tall and 2' DIA. It's not as cheap as
tupperware but is thicker plastic and the sides have a structural shape
that may make them more rigid when free standing.)

Thanks all,
Mark B.

Go Fig wrote:
In article , Mark
Bannister wrote:


I've seen a tremendous amount of conflicting advice on pump sizing. An
afternoon of reading all this has left me confused. We are installing a
small (700 gallons, 3 feet deep, US zone 7a) pond and would like a few
fish, mainly plants though. I've got a few questions if anyone has the time.
Too small for a koi or two?


What will your width and length be? In general, small koi will be fine
for a few years in 700gal with good filtration... they will need to
move on at some point so include that in your original planning.


Should water turn-over be 2-3 times an hour as some sites suggest
(that's a lot of water to move)?


For 700 gal, thats a good amount.

May I suggest you tell us what pump you are considering and you should
get peoples specific experiences.

Lastly, get a bigger pump than you think you need, you can always
divert the flow to another return line or throttle back a single line,
within reason, with a ball valve.

jay
Thu May 13, 2004




Why are there not any pond pump head calculators out there? Can I just
not find them? If there really aren't any, and if someone would point
out someplace I can get reliable numbers and equations, I will throw one
together if someone has a place to put it. It will be rainy this
weekend and I need something to do.

Mark B.

In article , Mark
Bannister wrote:

Thanks for the responses. Pond is a formal block pond, roughly 8.5'x4'x
3' deep. Block will be sealed with Hetch rubber sealer and then tiled
with granite. There is a planter running the length of the back
8.5x1x1.5 which will be hold plants. A dividing wall lower than the
water level will separate the two areas.
The pump will be in the garage and is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. There are
two inlet lines and 1 return line. One inlet goes into the planting
area, the other about 2' down into the main area. On the opposite wall
the return line will split, one end going to the bottom of the pond, the
other to a skimmer.
I have small, .5", lines run for water features that I may add later.
They would be only 2' above the pump at most and would add little to the
head pressure.

I've looked at MANY pumps. I won't skimp here. I work in manufacturing
and understand price/performance/cost issues. I lately looked at the
Supreme pumps but they seem pretty cheap (price wise). I was hoping to
spend less than $500 on the pump.

Have you looked at Sequence Pumps ?

jay
Fri May 14, 2004




Filter. That's still open. Local dealer is trying to sell me a small
vortex type filter. It has a small amount of media in the bottom and you
can add a UV light to it easily. I forget the brand. How could a
biological filter work with a UV light? It looks like it would take a
lot of filter cleaning, but it is small and tidy. Because this is a
formal pond clarity will be important. The pond will also be still on
the surface so I will have to have aeration with the filter.
I could always build a filter and put it next to the pump. I had
already planned to have some sort of reservoir in the garage to add
make-up water using a valve. (BTW, Home Depot sells a plastic sump well
and lid for french drains for $25+. It looks like it would make a handy
filter tank. It's about 3' tall and 2' DIA. It's not as cheap as
tupperware but is thicker plastic and the sides have a structural shape
that may make them more rigid when free standing.)

Thanks all,
Mark B.

Go Fig wrote:
In article , Mark
Bannister wrote:


I've seen a tremendous amount of conflicting advice on pump sizing. An
afternoon of reading all this has left me confused. We are installing a
small (700 gallons, 3 feet deep, US zone 7a) pond and would like a few
fish, mainly plants though. I've got a few questions if anyone has the time.
Too small for a koi or two?


What will your width and length be? In general, small koi will be fine
for a few years in 700gal with good filtration... they will need to
move on at some point so include that in your original planning.


Should water turn-over be 2-3 times an hour as some sites suggest
(that's a lot of water to move)?


For 700 gal, thats a good amount.

May I suggest you tell us what pump you are considering and you should
get peoples specific experiences.

Lastly, get a bigger pump than you think you need, you can always
divert the flow to another return line or throttle back a single line,
within reason, with a ball valve.

jay
Thu May 13, 2004




Why are there not any pond pump head calculators out there? Can I just
not find them? If there really aren't any, and if someone would point
out someplace I can get reliable numbers and equations, I will throw one
together if someone has a place to put it. It will be rainy this
weekend and I need something to do.

Mark B.

Go Fig wrote:
sniP

Have you looked at Sequence Pumps ?

jay
Fri May 14, 2004


snip

Hmmm, they look nice. A 750 series 3600SEQ12 would more than do the job
I would think. The inlet port is 2" though and I only have 1.5". I
wonder how much of an issue that will be......? I could add another
line I guess.....

My filter tanks are very cheap....non toxic...they are 55+ gallon barrels
that were once used for Pepsi/Coke Syrup. I paid 5 dollars each for them.
Thanks Mike
"Mark Bannister" wrote in message
. ..
Thanks for the responses. Pond is a formal block pond, roughly 8.5'x4'x
3' deep. Block will be sealed with Hetch rubber sealer and then tiled
with granite. There is a planter running the length of the back
8.5x1x1.5 which will be hold plants. A dividing wall lower than the
water level will separate the two areas.
The pump will be in the garage and is plumbed with 1.5" PVC. There are
two inlet lines and 1 return line. One inlet goes into the planting
area, the other about 2' down into the main area. On the opposite wall
the return line will split, one end going to the bottom of the pond, the
other to a skimmer.
I have small, .5", lines run for water features that I may add later.
They would be only 2' above the pump at most and would add little to the
head pressure.

I've looked at MANY pumps. I won't skimp here. I work in manufacturing
and understand price/performance/cost issues. I lately looked at the
Supreme pumps but they seem pretty cheap (price wise). I was hoping to
spend less than $500 on the pump.

Filter. That's still open. Local dealer is trying to sell me a small
vortex type filter. It has a small amount of media in the bottom and you
can add a UV light to it easily. I forget the brand. How could a
biological filter work with a UV light? It looks like it would take a
lot of filter cleaning, but it is small and tidy. Because this is a
formal pond clarity will be important. The pond will also be still on
the surface so I will have to have aeration with the filter.
I could always build a filter and put it next to the pump. I had
already planned to have some sort of reservoir in the garage to add
make-up water using a valve. (BTW, Home Depot sells a plastic sump well
and lid for french drains for $25+. It looks like it would make a handy
filter tank. It's about 3' tall and 2' DIA. It's not as cheap as
tupperware but is thicker plastic and the sides have a structural shape
that may make them more rigid when free standing.)

Thanks all,
Mark B.

Go Fig wrote:
In article , Mark
Bannister wrote:


I've seen a tremendous amount of conflicting advice on pump sizing. An
afternoon of reading all this has left me confused. We are installing a
small (700 gallons, 3 feet deep, US zone 7a) pond and would like a few
fish, mainly plants though. I've got a few questions if anyone has the
time.
Too small for a koi or two?


What will your width and length be? In general, small koi will be fine
for a few years in 700gal with good filtration... they will need to
move on at some point so include that in your original planning.


Should water turn-over be 2-3 times an hour as some sites suggest
(that's a lot of water to move)?


For 700 gal, thats a good amount.

May I suggest you tell us what pump you are considering and you should
get peoples specific experiences.

Lastly, get a bigger pump than you think you need, you can always
divert the flow to another return line or throttle back a single line,
within reason, with a ball valve.

jay
Thu May 13, 2004




Why are there not any pond pump head calculators out there? Can I just
not find them? If there really aren't any, and if someone would point
out someplace I can get reliable numbers and equations, I will throw one
together if someone has a place to put it. It will be rainy this
weekend and I need something to do.

Mark B.

In article , Mark
Bannister wrote:

Go Fig wrote:
sniP

Have you looked at Sequence Pumps ?

jay
Fri May 14, 2004


snip

Hmmm, they look nice. A 750 series 3600SEQ12 would more than do the job
I would think.

Give a hard look at the 1000 (1/4 H.P) series, I'm sure you can find
something to do with the extra. I would also suggest adding a primer
pot.

The inlet port is 2" though and I only have 1.5". I
wonder how much of an issue that will be......? I could add another
line I guess.....


2" lines prevent cavitation in high RPM pumps, these Sequence pumps are
low RPM, they do make a 3500 RPM pump though.

In article , Mark
Bannister wrote:

Filter. That's still open. Local dealer is trying to sell me a small
vortex type filter. It has a small amount of media in the bottom and you
can add a UV light to it easily. I forget the brand. How could a
biological filter work with a UV light?


It is incredibly hard to beat a sand filter and a separate in-line UV
filter (Pond Clear Pro 30 Watt) for crystal clear water. I always try
to incorporate sands filters, you will need to provided drainage for a
sand filter when backflushing though.

UV filters only effect the water that is pasted through them, the
cultured bacteria in a filter will not be effected.

jay
Fri May 14, 2004

In article , Mark
Bannister wrote:

I've seen a tremendous amount of conflicting advice on pump sizing. An
afternoon of reading all this has left me confused. We are installing a
small (700 gallons, 3 feet deep, US zone 7a) pond and would like a few
fish, mainly plants though. I've got a few questions if anyone has the time.
Too small for a koi or two?

What will your width and length be? In general, small koi will be fine
for a few years in 700gal with good filtration... they will need to
move on at some point so include that in your original planning.

Should water turn-over be 2-3 times an hour as some sites suggest
(that's a lot of water to move)?

For 700 gal, thats a good amount.

May I suggest you tell us what pump you are considering and you should
get peoples specific experiences.

Lastly, get a bigger pump than you think you need, you can always
divert the flow to another return line or throttle back a single line,
within reason, with a ball valve.

jay
Thu May 13, 2004



Why are there not any pond pump head calculators out there? Can I just
not find them? If there really aren't any, and if someone would point
out someplace I can get reliable numbers and equations, I will throw one
together if someone has a place to put it. It will be rainy this
weekend and I need something to do.

Mark B.