Hi,
Rod Farlee or anything even resembling a chemist I ain't but I did keep
notes on lots of his input to this group.
Found this and I quote - BTW this is reposted sans permission.

begin quote

"Baking soda can always neutralize acidity and raise pH to 8.4 or so.
Acids react with baking soda to produce carbon dioxide, which is
permanently removed from the pond by aeration.

But baking soda can't neutralize basicity and lower pH in an analogous
way, it can only try to overwhelm it. That only works if the initial
alkalinity
is low, which isn't the case with your water.

Another reason baking soda wasn't effective for you is what chemists
call "buffer intensity". This is a measure of how strongly a buffer
regulates pH (how much acid or base must be added to produce a
given pH change). The buffer intensity of bicarbonate has a minimum
near pH 8.5. The reason is that this pH is right between the pH of the
two chemical reactions that this buffer system relies on. These two
reactions are bicarbonate to carbon dioxide (grows as pH falls below 8,
is 50% complete at pH 6.3), and bicarbonate to carbonate (grows as
pH rises above 9, is 50% complete at pH 10.25). Between these, at
pH 8 to 9, buffer intensity is low. Even though your alkalinity (total
amount of bicarbonate) is high, the pH can be shifted up by excess
base (carbonate), and will stay high.

Muriatic acid will convert that excess carbonate to bicarbonate, and
"reset" your pH down to 8.4, where it will then be stable."

end quote

HTH -_- how
no NEWS is good

wrote in message
...
bicarbonate HCO3- is unlikely to give up H+ ions... it is already in an
ionized
state. yes, it can combine with calcium or magnesium, but does that lower
the pH?

WE NEED (Rod Farlee)!!!!!!!
Ingrid

"RichToyBox" wrote:

The nature of baking soda is that it will give up H+ ions making more aci
ds,
but only if the pH is above the buffer point. When it does this, it
leaves
behind carbonate ions, which could precipitate as calcium carbonate,
(limestone), of calcium magnesium carbonate, (dolomite), if there is
enough
carbonate and it is not being pushed back to bicarbonate.
You didn't say it, but I assume you are checking fish ponds with the same
test kit and not getting the same high readings, and that the pH test kit
is
good.
You may be at some saturation point and major water changes could help
bring
the pH down, though with your additions of acid and the temporary
decrease,
I doubt it.
As for the maximum level, I saw somewhere, I think, a value of 300ppm.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

bicarb has a valence of -1 in that ionic form, whereas carbonates have a
valence of -2. To get to the valence -2, it has to give off the H+ ion,
thereby acidifying the water, and making the carbonates available for
reacting with the calcium and magnesium, both valence +2.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
wrote in message
...
bicarbonate HCO3- is unlikely to give up H+ ions... it is already in an
ionized
state. yes, it can combine with calcium or magnesium, but does that lower
the pH?

WE NEED (Rod Farlee)!!!!!!!
Ingrid

"RichToyBox" wrote:

The nature of baking soda is that it will give up H+ ions making more
acids,
but only if the pH is above the buffer point. When it does this, it
leaves
behind carbonate ions, which could precipitate as calcium carbonate,
(limestone), of calcium magnesium carbonate, (dolomite), if there is
enough
carbonate and it is not being pushed back to bicarbonate.
You didn't say it, but I assume you are checking fish ponds with the same
test kit and not getting the same high readings, and that the pH test kit
is
good.
You may be at some saturation point and major water changes could help
bring
the pH down, though with your additions of acid and the temporary
decrease,
I doubt it.
As for the maximum level, I saw somewhere, I think, a value of 300ppm.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.