"Cdon" wrote in message
oups.com...
Where do I find a private property dam inspector in NJ?

There is land I'm interested in purchasing near Morristown New Jersey
which has a tiny 100 foot diameter 10'foot deep pond with a ten foot
tall embankment and a 1-foot diameter pipe about 5 feet long going thru
that bank to the next property.

------- Remainder clipped -------


Some comments --

A hydraulic engineer is a specialized civil engineer. That is what I was
before my retirement some years ago. I will provide some comments in no
particular order.

1. I doubt that pipe through a 10' embankment is only 5' long. I will
assume
it is much longer.

2. The surface area of the pond is about one-fifth of an acre. Assuming an
average depth of 5', a failure of the embankment could flood an acre of land
only 1' deep. Unless there are significant structures, houses, etc.,
downstream, the risks are pretty small.

3. One of the two principal failure modes for earthen dams is seepage under
the embankment. Consider the number of years it has been in place. These
failures usually show up shortly after the water is impounded. To inspect
for problems, you look for damp soil or flowing springs below the dam.
Small flows of *clear water* generally indicate a stable (safe) condition.
Muddy flows indicate active erosion of the substrate of the dam and
potential failure.

4. The other principal failure mode is spillway inadequacy. A spillway is
usually provided to bypass sudden storm inflows that are too large for the
normal outlet (that 1' pipe). It may be as simple as a sodded channel
around the end of the embankment. Without a spillway, water might overflow
the embankment causing a sudden spill of the water in the pond.

5. There are thousands of such small dams and ponds around the country.
Many have been designed by the Soil Conservation Service of the U. S.
Department of Agriculture. They usually are of simple design appropriate to
their use and locale. The local office may (or may not) be able to help in
evaluating the design of the outlet and spillway.

6. Some states require a permit before constructing such a pond. If so,
there may be construction drawings on file. It is very likely that a search
will show that the structure was never registered and you may be required to
do that after the fact.

7. It seems you may be overly concerned for the soundness of this small
structure. But -- and a big "but" -- I know nothing of the area downstream
from the structure and I know nothing of the neighbors who may have a
concern. If there is a real concern about the structure, it would be a
simple matter to cut a trench through the embankment and let the pond drain.

SJF

Cdon wrote:
wrote:

Look in the dam NJ phone book ????


http://www.state.nj.us/dep/damsafety/

I cheated by starting at Rutgers civil engineering.

josh halpern

Denison, not Dennison. (Birthplace of Dwight David Eisenhour) Completed in
late 40's with surveying of the turbine house in '45 or '46. National Parks
Service had a recreational park, similar to Lake Mead, until 1948. First
overflow of the dam, about 1963. There has been another earthen dam, not
sure where, that exceeded the size.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
On 6 Apr 2005 14:13:21 -0700, "Cdon" wrote:


So, let's think about that earth dam. The biggest Earth dam anywhere
(apparently) is at Dennison, Texas. That's the way they bill it
anyway. It's described as a modern even experimental technique...
Hmmm...no great support there!

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

There are basically two different types of water law in the US. Eastern and
Western. In western water law, a person registers a claim, and noone
upstream is allowed to use water that would affect that persons claim. If
there is a serious drought, many people may have water go through their
property, and not be able to use a drop. That is how California gets most
of the Colorado river, though it has many more miles in Arizona. Eastern
water law basically says that you can use the water that goes across your
property, including damming it up, but you cannot divert the water to a
different waterway. Some cities in the east are violating the water law, by
creating lakes on one waterway, and piping the water to their citizens.
This creates some change in flow pattern, allowing changes in species, etc.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...

"Cdon" wrote in message
oups.com...
Where do I find a private property dam inspector in NJ?

There is land I'm interested in purchasing near Morristown New Jersey
which has a tiny 100 foot diameter 10'foot deep pond with a ten foot
tall embankment and a 1-foot diameter pipe about 5 feet long going thru
that bank to the next property.

Where do I find a POND & DAM INSPECTOR to inspect that?
The home inspector the real estate agent set up said just go to the
town but I'm afraid of the town (I'd rather get a private assessment
first).

I don't even know what to look for in my searches (hydraulic engineer?
dam inspector? pond inspector? civil engineer? waterway engineer?)

Whoever they are, I need to ask those dam people if they think the
embankment & outflow pipe is structurally sound and what it might need
to fix it.


A title search should show any water rights currently belonging to your
neighbor.....

Any experienced real estate attorney could likely advise you here,
also....if its been abandoned or fallen into dis-use, it shouldnt be a big
legal hassle to get the rights vacated.

Damn....might turn out this would be an excellent source for geothermal
heating /cooling should you consider using water-source heat pumps.....

--

SVL

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
...
Denison, not Dennison. (Birthplace of Dwight David Eisenhour) Completed
in late 40's with surveying of the turbine house in '45 or '46. National
Parks Service had a recreational park, similar to Lake Mead, until 1948.
First overflow of the dam, about 1963. There has been another earthen
dam, not sure where, that exceeded the size.

The Three Gorges dam in China? Not sure if that's a concrete or earth dam,
but insanely huge.

-S

"Cdon" wrote in message
oups.com...
Where do I find a private property dam inspector in NJ?

There is land I'm interested in purchasing near Morristown New Jersey
which has a tiny 100 foot diameter 10'foot deep pond with a ten foot
tall embankment and a 1-foot diameter pipe about 5 feet long going thru
that bank to the next property.

Where do I find a POND & DAM INSPECTOR to inspect that?
The home inspector the real estate agent set up said just go to the
town but I'm afraid of the town (I'd rather get a private assessment
first).

I don't even know what to look for in my searches (hydraulic engineer?
dam inspector? pond inspector? civil engineer? waterway engineer?)

Whoever they are, I need to ask those dam people if they think the
embankment & outflow pipe is structurally sound and what it might need
to fix it.

Any help for me?

Does NJ have the chinese mitton crab? We have them out here in the SF bay
area in California, those little guys love to burrow into levees and weaken
them. Check with your local wildlife agency to make sure they aren't a
problem in NJ yet.

We have lots of Damn inspectors here in South Carolina. Want us to
send you some?! :-)

Stretch

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself! The inspectors here are really very
nice!! :-) )

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
...
There are basically two different types of water law in the US. Eastern
and
Western. In western water law, a person registers a claim, and noone
upstream is allowed to use water that would affect that persons claim. If
there is a serious drought, many people may have water go through their
property, and not be able to use a drop. That is how California gets most
of the Colorado river, though it has many more miles in Arizona. Eastern
water law basically says that you can use the water that goes across your
property, including damming it up, but you cannot divert the water to a
different waterway. Some cities in the east are violating the water law,
by
creating lakes on one waterway, and piping the water to their citizens.
This creates some change in flow pattern, allowing changes in species,
etc.


My experience comes from my purchasing a landlocked lot having a springhouse
upon it, adjacent to my parcel a few years back...in SW Wa.....

It had been used by the family whose heirs had filed the original donation
land claim a few generations prior for irrigating some bottom lands for
farming....but the pipeline hadn't been actually used since the early
50's....

The agreement was actually written by myself, then reviewed by an
attorney....If I recall correctly, the agreement called for him to
relinquish all rights to said water excepting I was to do nothing to cause
the water to flow in a different direction than it currently followed....

--

SVL

"Red Cloud®" wrote in message
...

Know any beavers?


It happened in Michigan, pretty dam funny to read :

http://www.snopes.com/humor/letters/dammed.htm

--

SVL

To return to the original question 8-)

In UK there are specialist inspectors for dams, and these will be registered
as such with the ICE (the UK professional engineers association). I suspect
that the American association would have a similar scheme, or at least ought
to know who the particular specialists are. If you can find the person - he
will undertake the inspection, either individually or as a representative of
his company (more likely)

Keith

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/damsafety/

I cheated by starting at Rutgers civil engineering.

Also
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/nhr/engin...y/standard.pdf

and
http://www.state.nj.us/dep/nhr/engin...y/vicguid2.doc

The latter is the actual checklist.
--Goedjn

On 6 Apr 2005 13:57:05 -0700, "Cdon" wrote:

wrote:
Look in the dam NJ phone book ????

I should mention I live 1000 miles away from this property so
everything needs to be done by the Internet.

I already called the town who said they didn't have a clue what
category to look under (they gave me the names of three "Engineering"
firms in the town but they also didn't have a clue what to look under".

So, the problem isn't to look in the phone book (I'd be glad to if I
had one and I knew what to look for) ... it's what CATEGORY to look in
the Internet.

PJM:
Do you know what to look for in that phone book?

I don't even HAVE a dam NJ phone book.

Do you know what a bad pun is ????


Click every day here to feed an animal that needs you today !!!

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

Check with Alaimo Group Mount Holly, (609)267-8310. They have a wide
ranging engineering service and are currently involved with some dam
reconstruction in the area.


"AlanBown" wrote in message
...

"Cdon" wrote in message
oups.com...
Where do I find a private property dam inspector in NJ?

There is land I'm interested in purchasing near Morristown New Jersey
which has a tiny 100 foot diameter 10'foot deep pond with a ten foot
tall embankment and a 1-foot diameter pipe about 5 feet long going thru
that bank to the next property.

Where do I find a POND & DAM INSPECTOR to inspect that?
The home inspector the real estate agent set up said just go to the
town but I'm afraid of the town (I'd rather get a private assessment
first).

I don't even know what to look for in my searches (hydraulic engineer?
dam inspector? pond inspector? civil engineer? waterway engineer?)

Whoever they are, I need to ask those dam people if they think the
embankment & outflow pipe is structurally sound and what it might need
to fix it.

Any help for me?

I would start with the extension office of that local county. Sounds a
bit
weird that the pipe is going to a neighbor.
What are the water/ground water laws for NJ. I know in Colorado you can
have
water/river/stream on the property and can not use it. Best check with
the
county/local authority and find out what the deed restrictions/title are
for
the property. That information can be found in the county recorders
office.
It is public record..

I grew up on a farm in Iowa and if the dam did not leak that was good
enough
for us.

Gerald wrote:
Check with Alaimo Group Mount Holly, (609)267-8310.

You have a very difficult problem indeed.
Nobody on the Internet will likely be able to help you.
I have a similar problem in Lake Hopatcong, NJ.
I called a dozen plumbers in the local yellow pages.
They all basically said the same answer.
FWIW, here is what I learned about the problem & the solution.

THE COST:
- The pipe-inspection people charge about 2000 dollars a day
- My application, they said, would cost about $1000 to inspect (1/2
day)
THE PROBLEM:
- I have a Z-shaped 10" diameter cast-iron stream outlet pipe
- The inlet is about 7 feet above the outlet
- The distance from the inlet to the outlet is about 10 feet
TWO PIPE TESTS ARE AVAILABLE:
- Place a FERNCO cap on the outlet & measure leakage from inlet
- Place a EXPANDABLE BALL on the outlet & measure leakage from inlet
- Send a VIDEO CAMERA from the outlet to the inlet & inspect for damage
FERNCO CAP:
- The Fernco cap sits on the end of the exposed outlet pipe
- It is clamped down (requiring about 2 inches of pipe to grip)
- Over a 24-hour period, measure leakage from the inlet area
BALL METHOD:
- The ball method entails plugging the outlet 24 hours
- The ball expands with compressed air to block the outlet
- If the inlet area shows signs of drainage, then there is a leak
VIDEO METHOD:
- The video method entails sending a light & camera up the pipe
- The video camera allows the operator to see any cracks & clogs
- 45 degree bends are acceptable (90 degree bends are not)

I was able, after much searching in the yellow pages under "plumbers"
and a day of searching on the Internet for "pipe inspection drainage
sewer" to find only three outfits that perform this inspection task in
the whole of North Jersey. None of them could send a camera up because
of my 90 degree bends. None could use the FERNCO CAP because the outlet
was flush with a rock wall (therefore there was no 2 inch grip). All
could use the ball method, which is imprecise at best.

For my $1000 dollars, I'll just have to build a new outlet pipe for my
stream (unless some genius on the Internet has an idea which actually
works).

Someone told you the County Extension Office/Agent, but you didn't
understand.
Look for the one in your county:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&r...gent&spe ll=1
These are the people who know local dirt and know who to ask about what and
where to get free knowledge. Find one, hug him and call him George, take him
to lunch, he is your friend.

--
Try to beat the DragonKoi at Poker Champs...
https://secure.pokerchamps.com/poker...code=DRAGONKOI

For more information on Poker Champs go he
http://www.pokerchamps.com/
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"Cdon" wrote in message
oups.com...
| Where do I find a private property dam inspector in NJ?
|
| There is land I'm interested in purchasing near Morristown New Jersey
| which has a tiny 100 foot diameter 10'foot deep pond with a ten foot
| tall embankment and a 1-foot diameter pipe about 5 feet long going thru
| that bank to the next property.
|
| Where do I find a POND & DAM INSPECTOR to inspect that?
| The home inspector the real estate agent set up said just go to the
| town but I'm afraid of the town (I'd rather get a private assessment
| first).
|
| I don't even know what to look for in my searches (hydraulic engineer?
| dam inspector? pond inspector? civil engineer? waterway engineer?)
|
| Whoever they are, I need to ask those dam people if they think the
| embankment & outflow pipe is structurally sound and what it might need
| to fix it.
|
| Any help for me?
|