On 24 Jun 2005 20:28:36 -0700, "Dude" wrote:

I live in Peoria AZ and from mid June till mid Sept its over 100
degrees every day even at 3am its 100. My poor fish have to endure
extreem pond temps, I dont know exactly what the pond temp is but I
would guess about 90 degrees. I just got done doubling the size of it.
I would guess it's about 700 gal give or take.
1250gph pump to my UV filter, Bio Filter, & water fall. Filtration and
airiation is pretty good but the fish hide during the day trying to
stay out of the Sun... Good luck out here. I have some pigmy palms to
the back of the pond and the pond has the block wall fence on two sides
of it and I have a Ficus tree in front of it but the tree is still
young and not big enough to provide any shade yet. On top of everything
my house faces east west so the back yard gets direct son for about 6
hours.
I have read about using a small dorm size fridge and converting it to
cool the water in the pond. I would like to hear from other AZ ponders
and know if you all are doing anything for cooling your pond temps.

Thanks,
Chris


http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/...ories/ssid/370


--
Charles

Does not play well with others.

I have read about using a small dorm size fridge and converting it to
cool the water in the pond.

You can forget that, it will be a complete waste of labor.

I would like to hear from other AZ ponders
and know if you all are doing anything for cooling your pond temps.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/...ories/ssid/370

That will work if it's big enough. Keep in mind that /most/ of these units
are designed for home aquariums, and most home aquariums aren't 700 gallons.
OTOH, if one wants to take a pond from 90 to say 78 or so, a smaller one might
do it. I think one should probably do the math on the unit.

Now, before you go off and stock your pond with expensive koi that you fall
in love with, consider the consiquence if this chiller fails. At 90 degrees,
your koi will probably die.

I think you need to not have to worry about a critical failure here.

Deep pond, some shade. That's a good "plan A".

C//

Take a few milk jugs. Fill with water. Cap and freeze. Put in pond during
the day. Pond on the rocks. ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Thats what I have done in our hot tub on a few occassions when I
wanted a cold tub more than a hot tub.......it works pretty good too.

I would have to venture with a lots of shade is about the only resort
unless your prepared to spend lots of money for a chiller unit.

Around this paart its not uncommon for high temps either,,.How about a
fine mist of water. I have heard others say a trickle tower has a
chilling effect on water up to a certain point.

Take some temp readings at the top and middle and bottom and you may
be surprised the bottom strata is a lot cooler than you may think.

Around my ponds edges the water this year has been in the mid 90's
down to about 8 or 12 inches, however after that its a big change and
hits the lower 80's, and at about 3 feet or so its in the 70's. I
monitor my water temp from surface to 12 feet just for the heck of it
usuing a bank of remote electronic thermometers and sensors that are
permanently installed. Once I get past 8 or 9 feet the temp stays
rather constant all year round......

More aeraton and shade would be a big help for your pond / fish

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:33:05 -0700, ~ janj JJsPond.us
wrote:

===Take a few milk jugs. Fill with water. Cap and freeze. Put in pond during
===the day. Pond on the rocks. ~ jan
===
=== ~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~


==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

They make what is called Shade sails. They are a heavy duty nylon or
polyproplyene fabric made in the shape of a triangle. They are
supported by using three poles and three stakes in the ground or tied
off to other existing structures and tensioned. The triangle shape,
and outer perimeter cable they have works better in windy condiitons
than a square shape does as it allows any captive air under it to
bleed off quick and not create as much lift and billow up as a square
would. A lot of ponders on another forum speak very highly of them in
giving them the needed shade for their ponds.
A ready made 12 x 12 x 12 foot triangle shade sail is about
$130......and all you need is a means to support it, usuing pipes
wood posts or other structure.

http://www.shadesails.com/newpage11.htm

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder"
~~~~ }((((o ~~~~~~ }{{{{o ~~~~~~~ }(((((o

,,.How about a fine mist of water.

Which reminds me. Isn't AZ where they came up with those fine misters above
a patio to keep it cool? Why not above and around the pond? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Im not sure how a mister system will keep the pond water temp down? For
us humans the list mist of the water hitting our face feels good. But
since the fish is already completly wet I dont think they can
appreciate it the same way.

Chris

Im not sure how a mister system will keep the pond water temp down? For
us humans the list mist of the water hitting our face feels good. But
since the fish is already completly wet I dont think they can
appreciate it the same way.

Chris

Don't those things cool the ambient air in the area? So I was just thinking
if the temp is 105F on pavement, and the misters cooled the ambient area
around the pond to 90F, that would be a good thing for the pond? ~ jan


See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Im not sure how a mister system will keep the pond water temp down?

Evaporation causes cooling as a side effect. Misting encourages
evaporation. I wouldn't be able to quantify the overall heat effect
here.

C//

"~ janj JJsPond.us" wrote in message ...
,,.How about a fine mist of water.

Which reminds me. Isn't AZ where they came up with those fine misters above
a patio to keep it cool? Why not above and around the pond? ~ jan

Evaporative coolers work incredibly well in AZ and NM. Last summer I was out in AZ, it was about 110F outside before a rainstorm came in, within minutes the air temp was about 60f. Unfortunately I don't think an evaporative cooler would work well in cooling a pond, not the way you described anyways, the transfer of heat from water to air is not very good, so a lot of water would be wasted for minimal cooling value.

A better solution would be to run the water through some aluminum radiator coils, and to mist water over the radiator coils. Perhaps run a water line through the pond, before going to the sprinkler system, that would help, again minimally.

I think probably the most practical solution would be to cut the tops off of a couple 2 liter soda bottles, fill it with water, then just dump the ice into the pond every morning, which really won't help, assuming my math is correct.

Assuming 4L of ice, in a 90F (32C) 700 gal (2650 L) pond
heat taken up to convert ice to 0c water
4 kg x 334 (kJ.kg-1) = 1336 kJ
heat taken up to convert 0c water to ambient temp
4kg x 4.18 (kJ.kg-1. K-1)x 32 (º K) = 535.04 kJ
kJ absorbed = 1336 + 535 kJ = 1871

temp drop of pond
-1871 kJ = 2650kg x 4.18 (kJ.kg-1. K-1)x N(º K) = .16 ºC or about 3 ºF

Seems to me to be an awful lot of work for such minimal gains.

A better solution would be to run the water through some aluminum radiator coils,
and to mist water over the radiator coils. Perhaps run a water line through the pond,=
before going to the sprinkler system, that would help, again minimally.

If those aluminum radiator coils were buried somewhere cool, you'd have a heat
exchanger, and it would be effective. The challenge will be that the ground
gets pretty hot in AZ in summer. So finding that cool spot will be work, and
the digging will be deep.

C//

I live in the south so i have to have a lot of shade also. I built a
"terraza" over my pond.....

BTW i live close to the gulf so it also keeps the big brown pelicans and
herons away...below are some pics;-)

http://community-1.webtv.net/MATRIXJ...TLE/page4.html

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:04:43 -0500, (matrix j) wrote:

http://community-1.webtv.net/MATRIXJ...TLE/page4.html

Matrix, 2nd page, 3rd picture down, what are the plants to the right of,
what looks like a canna? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Yup they are the sun worshipping canna! Even in the shade they grow
profusely though.

They like their feet wet in about 3 inches of water "max" 1 or 2 inches
is better or they will turn yellow and die...."took me two years to
figure that out" LOL!

They are now about 4 feet tall and have very large yellow and red
blooms. Here in Texas they grow year round and laugh at the summer
heat...just like "purslane"...very rapid growers giving off baby plants
by =BFrizome?---sp?.

I just use lava rock and plant baskets "no soil" to plant them in.

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 20:34:22 -0500, (matrix j) wrote:

Yup they are the sun worshipping canna! Even in the shade they grow
profusely though.

What are the plants to the right of the canna? ~ jan

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~