On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:23:24 +0100, "Mike Lyle" wrote:

Pam Moore wrote:
On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:14:30 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:


To the original poster use clove oil, that'll drive the buggers
away
and keep them out, also garlic sometimes.

Oil of cloves; isn't that what used to be recommended for
toothache?
Can you guarantee that it will also drive off ants? In solution I
assume?
Garlic how? crushed? planted?
Thanks anyway!

Haven't heard of oil of cloves for this purpose, but it's certainly
worth trying if you don't want to use the products of the chemical
industry. Till we hear back from Tumbleweed, though, my guess is that
it wouldn't drive out a colony that was already established: like
bees, they can't take a laying queen anywhere, as far as I know.

If I thought the colony really was causing a problem (but they don't
usually: they won't hurt the plants), I probably would use Nippon. If
that's too chemical for you, I'm afraid you really will have to help
your friend tip over the pot and destroy the nest -- boiling water
usually does the trick. Spread out a plastic sheet, and tip the whole
thing over; then wiggle the plant out: it should be quite easy
between the two of you. A bit of boiling water on the very tips of
the roots shouldn't do any harm. You need to do this now, before they
send out drones and unmated queens (if it hasn't happened already --
it's quite a beautiful sight, really. In some parts of Africa,
they're big enough to eat: when a colony starts sending out flying
ants, you make a fire at the entrance and grab them as the heat burns
off their wings. A bit like shrimps.).

But...a willow in a pot? It's not my garden, but, for goodness' sake,
_why_? Such a vigorous grower is probably due for soil-replacement
anyhow, and it hardly matters how much you abuse it: they're tough.
This is one of those crises for which the Chinese character, they
tell us, is the same as the one for "opportunity". Opportunity either
to replace the soil, or to plant something else.


Beware, Oil of Cloves mixed with water will kill off vegetation if the concentration is too strong.
I discovered this by accident on the lawn about two months ago. There is still a dead patch in which
nothing will grow.

It does work on ants, but I don't know the correct ratios.

Rick

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Pam Moore wrote:
On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:14:30 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:


To the original poster use clove oil, that'll drive the buggers
away
and keep them out, also garlic sometimes.

Oil of cloves; isn't that what used to be recommended for
toothache?
Can you guarantee that it will also drive off ants? In solution I
assume?
Garlic how? crushed? planted?
Thanks anyway!

Haven't heard of oil of cloves for this purpose, but it's certainly
worth trying if you don't want to use the products of the chemical
industry. Till we hear back from Tumbleweed, though, my guess is that
it wouldn't drive out a colony that was already established: like
bees, they can't take a laying queen anywhere, as far as I know.

LOL. That wasnt me, that was the person who thinks that oil of cloves
contains no chemicals and that ants move around like people on 'Location
Location Location'.

Perhaps the lady who doesnt like chemicals could try spraying with a mixture
of boiled up tobacco leaves, chrysanthemums, castor oil beans, Conium
maculatum, berries from Atropa belladonna, derris plants and Taxus baccata.
As these are natural, they obviously contain no chemicals and are therefore
completely safe, just spray them liberally around.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:14:30 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:


"John" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 18:11:55 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:


"Pam Moore" wrote in message
...
How would YOU deal with ants which have nested in a pot containing a
tree?
My solution in the past was to stand the pot in a large bucket of
water, so the pot was completely submerged, and drive out the ants,
and pour the water off when they came to the surface.
A friend has ants in a huge pot containing a fast growing willow!
She has nothing big enough to submerge the pot in, and anyway the pot
is too heavy to lift.
She does not like using chemicals.
Any advice for my friend please? Nothing strenuous as she has ME.

My only other solution in the past was to unpot the tree, wash the
roots clean, and repot in fresh soil, but she would need help to do
that and it's a bit drastic this time of year.
TIA

Pam in Bristol

What about one of those ant baits where they carry the poison

Isn't poison a chemical you prat?


You have such a persuasive way with words, you silver tounged devil.

Pro hunt arseholes bring the best out in people.

I think you'll find, that except for the plasma forming the sun, everything
in the solar system is a chemical. The lady wishes to kill the ants. Unless
she indiscriminately sprays the neighbourhood with insecticide, how she does
it, to a non food plant, will make no difference at all. If she crushes them
with her fingers, they are also made of chemicals.

Yawn.

To the original poster use clove oil, that'll drive the buggers away
and keep them out, also garlic sometimes.

I think you'll find that clove oil is composed of many many chemicals. So
thats worse than the single chemical I suggested.......you prat :-)

Tosser.

And when you use the euphemism 'drive them away' do you think they will be
packing their teeny tiny suitcases and moving? I doubt it somehow.
FWIW garlic is also composed of chemicals as well, but gets rid of vampires,
not ants*. I suppose you were too busy firebombing Huntingdon Research to
pay attention in class or watch Buffy?

Dear me haven't upset pro hunt nut have I?


No sense killing things just because you don't like them or there'd be
a few missing on this group for sure.


LOL. So you *do* think the ants will be packing their teeny tiny suitcases
and moving? AH, bless.

For most of us ants, slugs, snails etc are really not a problem in our
gardens, we happily live side by side with nature. It's only arseholes
like you that appear to have trouble living with anything including
yourselves.

On 2 Aug 2005 20:25:53 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:

In article ,
Tumbleweed wrote:

I think you'll find, that except for the plasma forming the sun, everything
in the solar system is a chemical. ...

No, no, not at all.

Something that has been missed by modern science is that there is
a complete alternate system of matter, based on the elementary
particles called stupidity, ignorance, dogmatism, intolerance and
abusiveness. This accounts for the missing matter, commonly called
'dark' matter.

Recently, an alternate solar system passed through ours, and some
of the inhabitants of the other one, called trolls and made up of
those elementary particles, got stuck in ours. Their reasons for
disliking anything made up of chemicals should be obvious.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Another pro hunt arsehole. Get over yourself.

On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:47:48 GMT, Pam Moore
wrote:

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 21:14:30 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:


To the original poster use clove oil, that'll drive the buggers away
and keep them out, also garlic sometimes.

Oil of cloves; isn't that what used to be recommended for toothache?
Can you guarantee that it will also drive off ants? In solution I
assume?

A sure fire way to get rid of them is mix a small bottle of clove oil
from the chemists in a large watering can with a rose sprinkler.
Spray the area and watch them go.

This also works for other creatures when applied in a little spray
pump.

Garlic how? crushed? planted?

Whatever works. cloves, powder etc also works for others.

Thanks anyway!

Was a good question, just hate to see the losers getting such good
airplay.

Tumbleweed wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
[...]
Haven't heard of oil of cloves for this purpose, but it's
certainly
worth trying if you don't want to use the products of the chemical
industry. Till we hear back from Tumbleweed, though, [...]
LOL. That wasnt me, that was the person who thinks that oil of
cloves
contains no chemicals and that ants move around like people on
'Location Location Location'.
[...]

Sorry: careless reading on my part, perhaps abetted by careless
snippage by somebody else. (It occurs to me that oil of cloves must
be terribly expensive.)

--
Mike.

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 00:23:24 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

But...a willow in a pot? It's not my garden, but, for goodness' sake,
_why_? Such a vigorous grower is probably due for soil-replacement
anyhow, and it hardly matters how much you abuse it: they're tough.

Not in my garden either! She said she bought it at an NGS open garden
and was told it would grow to a large bush! It looks like a common
riverside tree to me and I think the ants will be doing her a favour,
but SHE likes it!
As for re-potting it, she will have to get her so-called gardener to
help her!
Thanks all for your advice.

Pam in Bristol

"Jim" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 22:37:12 GMT, Pam Moore
wrote:

On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:58:04 +0100, "pammyT" fenlandfowl
wrote:


I'm still hoping someone may have another idea of what to do without
resorting to HARMFUL chemicals!



'HARMFUL' to what? You can get chemicals which are harmful to ants but
nothing else such as Nippon, or you could use chemicals that are harmful to
nothing ...but what would the point of that be?

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

"Pam Moore" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:58:04 +0100, "pammyT" fenlandfowl
@talktalk.net wrote:

I don't think I *would* 'deal with' them unless they were actually
causing
some damage.

Thanks Pammy T. The trouble witha ants in pots is that they remove
the soil from round the roots and the plat may eventually die.
I was hoping for a few more helpful suggestions but see the thread's
gone off on a tangent! I'm sure you knew what I meant by no
chemicals!
I'm still hoping someone may have another idea of what to do without
resorting to HARMFUL chemicals!

Well you could try diatomaceous earth or pyrethrum powder. Both totally
natural and they both work one mites and lice in my poultry houses.
Try some of the poultry supplies ppl for either of those products.

pammyT wrote:
"Pam Moore" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:58:04 +0100, "pammyT" fenlandfowl
@talktalk.net wrote:

I don't think I *would* 'deal with' them unless they were
actually
causing some damage.

Thanks Pammy T. The trouble witha ants in pots is that they
remove
the soil from round the roots and the plat may eventually die.
I was hoping for a few more helpful suggestions but see the
thread's
gone off on a tangent! I'm sure you knew what I meant by no
chemicals!
I'm still hoping someone may have another idea of what to do
without
resorting to HARMFUL chemicals!

Well you could try diatomaceous earth or pyrethrum powder. Both
totally natural and they both work one mites and lice in my poultry
houses. Try some of the poultry supplies ppl for either of those
products.

Nippon liquid really is safe, you know. It's based on borax, which
you can use to treat mouth ulcers. Nippon's been around for many
decades with no known ill effects on mammals or, in these trifling
quantities, the environment. It's one of the best-known preparations,
not some new wizzo thing introduced by an agrichemical company only
to be withdrawn twenty years later when they found out what it did.
As far as I remember, it doesn't even hurt bees (but my memory is
long out of warranty).

I don't see how you're going to get pyrethrum powder into the nest
without tipping out the tree, which you said wasn't a realistic
option. So use Nippon without a qualm.

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
pammyT wrote:
"Pam Moore" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Aug 2005 19:58:04 +0100, "pammyT" fenlandfowl
@talktalk.net wrote:

I don't think I *would* 'deal with' them unless they were
actually
causing some damage.

Thanks Pammy T. The trouble witha ants in pots is that they
remove
the soil from round the roots and the plat may eventually die.
I was hoping for a few more helpful suggestions but see the
thread's
gone off on a tangent! I'm sure you knew what I meant by no
chemicals!
I'm still hoping someone may have another idea of what to do
without
resorting to HARMFUL chemicals!

Well you could try diatomaceous earth or pyrethrum powder. Both
totally natural and they both work one mites and lice in my poultry
houses. Try some of the poultry supplies ppl for either of those
products.

Nippon liquid really is safe, you know. It's based on borax, which
you can use to treat mouth ulcers. Nippon's been around for many
decades with no known ill effects on mammals or, in these trifling
quantities, the environment. It's one of the best-known preparations,
not some new wizzo thing introduced by an agrichemical company only
to be withdrawn twenty years later when they found out what it did.
As far as I remember, it doesn't even hurt bees (but my memory is
long out of warranty).

I don't see how you're going to get pyrethrum powder into the nest
without tipping out the tree, which you said wasn't a realistic
option. So use Nippon without a qualm.

--
Mike.


Isn't it interesting when people use the word 'natural' to imply something
is safe?
"...or pyrethrum powder. Both totally natural " Pyrethrum is in fact
slightly poisonous, certainly much more so than, Nippon, especially as the
nippon will be within a small container accessible only to ants and the
Pyrethrum spread around liberally.......but never mind, its natural :-)

Fancy a glass of hemlock, OP?

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com

Tumbleweed wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
[...]
Nippon liquid really is safe, you know. It's based on borax, which
you can use to treat mouth ulcers. Nippon's been around for many
decades with no known ill effects on mammals or, in these trifling
quantities, the environment. It's one of the best-known
preparations,
not some new wizzo thing introduced by an agrichemical company
only
to be withdrawn twenty years later when they found out what it
did.
As far as I remember, it doesn't even hurt bees (but my memory is
long out of warranty).

I don't see how you're going to get pyrethrum powder into the nest
without tipping out the tree, which you said wasn't a realistic
option. So use Nippon without a qualm.

--
Mike.


Isn't it interesting when people use the word 'natural' to imply
something is safe?
"...or pyrethrum powder. Both totally natural " Pyrethrum is in
fact
slightly poisonous, certainly much more so than, Nippon, especially
as the nippon will be within a small container accessible only to
ants and the Pyrethrum spread around liberally.......but never
mind,
its natural :-)

Fancy a glass of hemlock, OP?

I understand. But what I also understand is that we and other
life-forms have evolved in the presence of a lot of natural poisons,
and a lot of benign naturally-occurring substances which can become
harmful in certain circumstances. Our data on the effects and
behaviour of most of these is much longer-term than any we can
possibly have on the effects of synthetic compounds: hence the very
conservative approach many of us choose to take.

--
Mike.

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 19:52:02 +0100, "Tumbleweed"
wrote:

'HARMFUL' to what? You can get chemicals which are harmful to ants but
nothing else such as Nippon, or you could use chemicals that are harmful to
nothing ...but what would the point of that be?

In the sense that Nippon is more harmful than water to most things!
You knew what I meant. Don't be so pedantic!
I only asked a question and look where it got.

Pam in Bristol

On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 22:15:12 +0100, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:


Nippon liquid really is safe, you know. It's based on borax, which
you can use to treat mouth ulcers. Nippon's been around for many
decades with no known ill effects on mammals or, in these trifling
quantities, the environment. It's one of the best-known preparations,
not some new wizzo thing introduced by an agrichemical company only
to be withdrawn twenty years later when they found out what it did.
As far as I remember, it doesn't even hurt bees (but my memory is
long out of warranty).

I don't see how you're going to get pyrethrum powder into the nest
without tipping out the tree, which you said wasn't a realistic
option. So use Nippon without a qualm.

Thanks Mike. I also would use Nippon without a qualm, but you don't
know my friend!
I have told her I think that I think she should cut off a few branches
and root them in a new pot and somehow scrap the tree, soil, ants and
all.

Pam in Bristol

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Tumbleweed wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
[...]
Nippon liquid really is safe, you know. It's based on borax, which
you can use to treat mouth ulcers. Nippon's been around for many
decades with no known ill effects on mammals or, in these trifling
quantities, the environment. It's one of the best-known
preparations,
not some new wizzo thing introduced by an agrichemical company
only
to be withdrawn twenty years later when they found out what it
did.
As far as I remember, it doesn't even hurt bees (but my memory is
long out of warranty).

I don't see how you're going to get pyrethrum powder into the nest
without tipping out the tree, which you said wasn't a realistic
option. So use Nippon without a qualm.

--
Mike.


Isn't it interesting when people use the word 'natural' to imply
something is safe?
"...or pyrethrum powder. Both totally natural " Pyrethrum is in
fact
slightly poisonous, certainly much more so than, Nippon, especially
as the nippon will be within a small container accessible only to
ants and the Pyrethrum spread around liberally.......but never
mind,
its natural :-)

Fancy a glass of hemlock, OP?

I understand. But what I also understand is that we and other
life-forms have evolved in the presence of a lot of natural poisons,
and a lot of benign naturally-occurring substances which can become
harmful in certain circumstances. Our data on the effects and
behaviour of most of these is much longer-term than any we can
possibly have on the effects of synthetic compounds: hence the very
conservative approach many of us choose to take.

--
Mike.

Agreed, its just the unthinking (not targetting you here) use of the word
natural to equate with safe that I was talking about. Also, evolutionary
speaking, we havent evolved in the presence of most of the natural poisons
we ingest, since they are very new to our diet.

There is very little data on the long term effects of natural poisons,
especially those that form a part of our diet. Most of our foodstuffs are,
evolutionary speaking, brand new, and so we havent really developed a
tolerance for them yet but the effects may still be significant but low
enough no one would ever notice withour large scale studies.

Some food items we routinely eat are significantly more toxic than most
man-made pesticides (simply because rigorous testing has eliminated the
latter). Amongst those are lettuce and coffee. Really this should be
unsurprising, because many chemicals in plants have evolved to be
specifically toxic to either insects or mammals. Yet you'll find people
drinking coffee and smoking*, campaigning about the minute and largely
theoretical effect that a man-made pesticide might have. Oliver Goldsmith,
who edits 'The Ecologist', would be a good case in point.

--
Tumbleweed

*plus the huge effect on the environment caused by growing tobacco

email replies not necessary but to contact use;
tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com