Mike Roscoe wrote:
"Rupert" wrote in a message:.
I am about to import a plant from the USA and have sorted shipping
etc. Any help much appreciated
---

Well done you Rupert! Since 7/11, my son who lives in the USA has
not
been allowed to send any plant material to me here in the UK.
However, he IS allowed to send me seeds, the envelopes containing
them have been sometimes opened and inspected during transit.

Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Mike Roscoe wrote:
"Rupert" wrote in a message:.
I am about to import a plant from the USA and have sorted shipping
etc. Any help much appreciated
---

Well done you Rupert! Since 7/11, my son who lives in the USA has
not
been allowed to send any plant material to me here in the UK.
However, he IS allowed to send me seeds, the envelopes containing
them have been sometimes opened and inspected during transit.

Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.

Where would Britain be today in regards to its supply of plants had your
forefathers not explored the world and returned with what are considered
today as being plant treasures....where would any country be.......H

middleton.walker wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...

Mike Roscoe wrote:

"Rupert" wrote in a message:.

I am about to import a plant from the USA and have sorted shipping
etc. Any help much appreciated
---

Well done you Rupert! Since 7/11, my son who lives in the USA has

not

been allowed to send any plant material to me here in the UK.
However, he IS allowed to send me seeds, the envelopes containing
them have been sometimes opened and inspected during transit.

Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


Where would Britain be today in regards to its supply of plants had your
forefathers not explored the world and returned with what are considered
today as being plant treasures....where would any country be.......H

There'd maybe be a few more Elms, much less Russian vine ?



Richard.

"Richard Brooks" wrote in message
...
middleton.walker wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...

Mike Roscoe wrote:

"Rupert" wrote in a message:.

I am about to import a plant from the USA and have sorted shipping
etc. Any help much appreciated
---

Well done you Rupert! Since 7/11, my son who lives in the USA has

not

been allowed to send any plant material to me here in the UK.
However, he IS allowed to send me seeds, the envelopes containing
them have been sometimes opened and inspected during transit.

Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


Where would Britain be today in regards to its supply of plants had
your
forefathers not explored the world and returned with what are considered
today as being plant treasures....where would any country be.......H

There'd maybe be a few more Elms, much less Russian vine ?



Richard.
.......and don't even mention knotweed!!
Ann H

In article ,
"Ann Heanes" writes:
|
| Where would Britain be today in regards to its supply of plants had
| your
| forefathers not explored the world and returned with what are considered
| today as being plant treasures....where would any country be.......H
|
| There'd maybe be a few more Elms, much less Russian vine ?

No. The recent outbreak of Dutch elm disease was from timber
with bark on, not plants. Nobody knows what the cause of the
similar decline in paleo/meso/neo-lithic times was.

| ......and don't even mention knotweed!!

Why knot?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
No. The recent outbreak of Dutch elm disease was from timber
with bark on, not plants. Nobody knows what the cause of the
similar decline in paleo/meso/neo-lithic times was.

I have heard, sometimes last year, that they have recently found, 60
years later, a disease coming from the wood which made the american's
soldiers canteen box? This is apparently keeling many trees in Provence
- and spreading.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Mike Roscoe wrote:
"Rupert" wrote in a message:.
I am about to import a plant from the USA and have sorted shipping
etc. Any help much appreciated
---

Well done you Rupert! Since 7/11, my son who lives in the USA has
not
been allowed to send any plant material to me here in the UK.
However, he IS allowed to send me seeds, the envelopes containing
them have been sometimes opened and inspected during transit.

Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.

Well having explored this import a little further with DEFRA and the
American supplier I can assure you that the certifications and inspections
at both ends of the supply chain are very rigorous.
Let's hope foreign travel isn't subject to such rules-it might prevent the
spread of nastiness.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Mike Roscoe wrote:
"Rupert" wrote in a message:.
I am about to import a plant from the USA and have sorted shipping
etc. Any help much appreciated
---

Well done you Rupert! Since 7/11, my son who lives in the USA has
not
been allowed to send any plant material to me here in the UK.
However, he IS allowed to send me seeds, the envelopes containing
them have been sometimes opened and inspected during transit.

Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and the
trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle"
[...]
Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and
the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more
sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious
discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was
presented at a conference at Reading University last week.

--
Mike.

In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote:
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle"
[...]
Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and
the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more
sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious
discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was
presented at a conference at Reading University last week.

This is the UK. If you encourage the government to impose more
bureaucracy and restrictions on the hoi polloi in the name of
safety, they will. The changes will, of course, no nothing to
increase safety, and may even do the converse.

Would you like to discuss the rules imposed after the government
achieved an international first by creating a new disease (BSE)?
The Germans, perfectly reasonably, banned UK beef as an interim
procedure. The UK government's response was to retaliate against
the British public by imposing the following restrictions:

Private imports of meat were limited to 100 grams that had
to be vacuum packed.

No limits were placed on the commercial importation of meat
from ANY country, or its resale.

No attempt was made to control the feeding of ruminant protein
to ruminants (which cased the trouble) or control the feedstock
industry.

Sheep and cattle had to be slaughtered for meat at a stage
when they would rarely show the overt symptoms of the disease.

I predict that any restrictions on the import of plants would be
similar in their scientific basis.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
Private imports of meat were limited to 100 grams that had
to be vacuum packed.

No limits were placed on the commercial importation of meat
from ANY country, or its resale.

No attempt was made to control the feeding of ruminant protein
to ruminants (which cased the trouble) or control the feedstock
industry.

Sheep and cattle had to be slaughtered for meat at a stage
when they would rarely show the overt symptoms of the disease.

I predict that any restrictions on the import of plants would be
similar in their scientific basis.

Ah, yes, the clever trick, if you can get away with it, is to make the
public think^H^H^H^H^Hfeel that something is being done in their interests.

In article , Ian
Keeling writes
Nick Maclaren wrote:
Private imports of meat were limited to 100 grams that had
to be vacuum packed.
No limits were placed on the commercial importation of meat
from ANY country, or its resale.
No attempt was made to control the feeding of ruminant protein
to ruminants (which cased the trouble) or control the feedstock
industry.
Sheep and cattle had to be slaughtered for meat at a stage
when they would rarely show the overt symptoms of the disease.
I predict that any restrictions on the import of plants would be
similar in their scientific basis.

Ah, yes, the clever trick, if you can get away with it, is to make the
public think^H^H^H^H^Hfeel that something is being done in their
interests.

But what is being ignored is that the "market" is not itself sufficient
to sort out problems.

OK, so politicians etc might not be very good at it - but without rules,
many "enterprises" that sniff a profit will go hell for leather and damn
the effects (if they think they can get away with it).

I accept that in addition to good rules, there has to be effective
implementation. However, just because governments tend not to do that
very well is not necessarily a reason to do nothing.

--
regards andyw

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle"
[...]
Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and
the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more
sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious
discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was
presented at a conference at Reading University last week.

--
Mike.


My answer was quite serious.
The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved without a
phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the thing arrives it
will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically inspected and certified it.
Finally it's up to me to report anything I notice amiss. you want How much
more safety do you think we require?

Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned?

Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle"
[...]
Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor,
increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced
against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


If we banned the international movement of all living creatures
and
the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more
sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious
discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject
was
presented at a conference at Reading University last week.

--
Mike.


My answer was quite serious.

You mean "serious", as in "banning...the trade in fruit and veg"?

The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved
without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the
thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically
inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report
anything
I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we
require?

The worry is that those measures seem to have proved insufficient in
the past. There are several reasons: the cleansing and inspection
regimes don't seem to be perfectly effective; and even if you are
skilled enough to notice something amiss and responsible enough to
report it, some of the things we may be at risk from are microscopic,
or may evolve once here (this isn't me speculating).

Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned?

Good question. No. I'll look for it tomorrow. Meanwhile, if you're
staying up later than I am, key words are Professor Brasier,
mycologist, RHS, Forest Research, Imperial College, Science Exchange,
Reading University, DEFRA -- perm any or all! I don't know the date,
but 23 or 24 November '05 seem likely. Please post a link if you get
there first.

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle"
[...]
Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor,
increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced
against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


If we banned the international movement of all living creatures
and
the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more
sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious
discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject
was
presented at a conference at Reading University last week.

--
Mike.


My answer was quite serious.

You mean "serious", as in "banning...the trade in fruit and veg"?

The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved
without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the
thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically
inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report
anything
I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we
require?

The worry is that those measures seem to have proved insufficient in
the past. There are several reasons: the cleansing and inspection
regimes don't seem to be perfectly effective; and even if you are
skilled enough to notice something amiss and responsible enough to
report it, some of the things we may be at risk from are microscopic,
or may evolve once here (this isn't me speculating).

Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned?

Good question. No. I'll look for it tomorrow. Meanwhile, if you're
staying up later than I am, key words are Professor Brasier,
mycologist, RHS, Forest Research, Imperial College, Science Exchange,
Reading University, DEFRA -- perm any or all! I don't know the date,
but 23 or 24 November '05 seem likely. Please post a link if you get
there first.

--
Mike.

Thanks for the info Mike I will search for the item .

Fruit and Veg and seeds pose just as much risk as any other plant material.
I think the rules are adequate . As and when something happens then again I
think the current DEFRA systems can cope.
I