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#1
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Import of plant from USA
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle" [...] Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against any, perhaps modest, benefit? -- Mike. If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more sanitary environment (boringly sterile) I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was presented at a conference at Reading University last week. -- Mike. |
#2
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Import of plant from USA
In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote: Rupert wrote: "Mike Lyle" [...] Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against any, perhaps modest, benefit? If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more sanitary environment (boringly sterile) I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was presented at a conference at Reading University last week. This is the UK. If you encourage the government to impose more bureaucracy and restrictions on the hoi polloi in the name of safety, they will. The changes will, of course, no nothing to increase safety, and may even do the converse. Would you like to discuss the rules imposed after the government achieved an international first by creating a new disease (BSE)? The Germans, perfectly reasonably, banned UK beef as an interim procedure. The UK government's response was to retaliate against the British public by imposing the following restrictions: Private imports of meat were limited to 100 grams that had to be vacuum packed. No limits were placed on the commercial importation of meat from ANY country, or its resale. No attempt was made to control the feeding of ruminant protein to ruminants (which cased the trouble) or control the feedstock industry. Sheep and cattle had to be slaughtered for meat at a stage when they would rarely show the overt symptoms of the disease. I predict that any restrictions on the import of plants would be similar in their scientific basis. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#3
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Import of plant from USA
Nick Maclaren wrote:
Private imports of meat were limited to 100 grams that had to be vacuum packed. No limits were placed on the commercial importation of meat from ANY country, or its resale. No attempt was made to control the feeding of ruminant protein to ruminants (which cased the trouble) or control the feedstock industry. Sheep and cattle had to be slaughtered for meat at a stage when they would rarely show the overt symptoms of the disease. I predict that any restrictions on the import of plants would be similar in their scientific basis. Ah, yes, the clever trick, if you can get away with it, is to make the public think^H^H^H^H^Hfeel that something is being done in their interests. |
#4
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Import of plant from USA
In article , Ian
Keeling writes Nick Maclaren wrote: Private imports of meat were limited to 100 grams that had to be vacuum packed. No limits were placed on the commercial importation of meat from ANY country, or its resale. No attempt was made to control the feeding of ruminant protein to ruminants (which cased the trouble) or control the feedstock industry. Sheep and cattle had to be slaughtered for meat at a stage when they would rarely show the overt symptoms of the disease. I predict that any restrictions on the import of plants would be similar in their scientific basis. Ah, yes, the clever trick, if you can get away with it, is to make the public think^H^H^H^H^Hfeel that something is being done in their interests. But what is being ignored is that the "market" is not itself sufficient to sort out problems. OK, so politicians etc might not be very good at it - but without rules, many "enterprises" that sniff a profit will go hell for leather and damn the effects (if they think they can get away with it). I accept that in addition to good rules, there has to be effective implementation. However, just because governments tend not to do that very well is not necessarily a reason to do nothing. -- regards andyw |
#5
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Import of plant from USA
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Rupert wrote: "Mike Lyle" [...] Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against any, perhaps modest, benefit? -- Mike. If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more sanitary environment (boringly sterile) I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was presented at a conference at Reading University last week. -- Mike. My answer was quite serious. The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report anything I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we require? Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned? |
#6
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Import of plant from USA
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Rupert wrote: "Mike Lyle" [...] Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against any, perhaps modest, benefit? -- Mike. If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more sanitary environment (boringly sterile) I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was presented at a conference at Reading University last week. -- Mike. My answer was quite serious. You mean "serious", as in "banning...the trade in fruit and veg"? The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report anything I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we require? The worry is that those measures seem to have proved insufficient in the past. There are several reasons: the cleansing and inspection regimes don't seem to be perfectly effective; and even if you are skilled enough to notice something amiss and responsible enough to report it, some of the things we may be at risk from are microscopic, or may evolve once here (this isn't me speculating). Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned? Good question. No. I'll look for it tomorrow. Meanwhile, if you're staying up later than I am, key words are Professor Brasier, mycologist, RHS, Forest Research, Imperial College, Science Exchange, Reading University, DEFRA -- perm any or all! I don't know the date, but 23 or 24 November '05 seem likely. Please post a link if you get there first. -- Mike. |
#7
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Import of plant from USA
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Rupert wrote: "Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Rupert wrote: "Mike Lyle" [...] Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against any, perhaps modest, benefit? -- Mike. If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more sanitary environment (boringly sterile) I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was presented at a conference at Reading University last week. -- Mike. My answer was quite serious. You mean "serious", as in "banning...the trade in fruit and veg"? The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report anything I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we require? The worry is that those measures seem to have proved insufficient in the past. There are several reasons: the cleansing and inspection regimes don't seem to be perfectly effective; and even if you are skilled enough to notice something amiss and responsible enough to report it, some of the things we may be at risk from are microscopic, or may evolve once here (this isn't me speculating). Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned? Good question. No. I'll look for it tomorrow. Meanwhile, if you're staying up later than I am, key words are Professor Brasier, mycologist, RHS, Forest Research, Imperial College, Science Exchange, Reading University, DEFRA -- perm any or all! I don't know the date, but 23 or 24 November '05 seem likely. Please post a link if you get there first. -- Mike. Thanks for the info Mike I will search for the item . Fruit and Veg and seeds pose just as much risk as any other plant material. I think the rules are adequate . As and when something happens then again I think the current DEFRA systems can cope. I |
#8
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Import of plant from USA
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Rupert wrote: "Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Rupert wrote: "Mike Lyle" [...] Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against any, perhaps modest, benefit? -- Mike. If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more sanitary environment (boringly sterile) I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was presented at a conference at Reading University last week. -- Mike. My answer was quite serious. You mean "serious", as in "banning...the trade in fruit and veg"? The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report anything I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we require? The worry is that those measures seem to have proved insufficient in the past. There are several reasons: the cleansing and inspection regimes don't seem to be perfectly effective; and even if you are skilled enough to notice something amiss and responsible enough to report it, some of the things we may be at risk from are microscopic, or may evolve once here (this isn't me speculating). Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned? Good question. No. I'll look for it tomorrow. Meanwhile, if you're staying up later than I am, key words are Professor Brasier, mycologist, RHS, Forest Research, Imperial College, Science Exchange, Reading University, DEFRA -- perm any or all! I don't know the date, but 23 or 24 November '05 seem likely. Please post a link if you get there first. -- Mike. This is the article:- http://forests.org/articles/reader.asp?linkid=48617 |
#9
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Import of plant from USA
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Rupert wrote: "Mike Lyle" wrote in message ... Rupert wrote: "Mike Lyle" [...] Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against any, perhaps modest, benefit? -- Mike. If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more sanitary environment (boringly sterile) I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was presented at a conference at Reading University last week. -- Mike. My answer was quite serious. You mean "serious", as in "banning...the trade in fruit and veg"? The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report anything I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we require? The worry is that those measures seem to have proved insufficient in the past. There are several reasons: the cleansing and inspection regimes don't seem to be perfectly effective; and even if you are skilled enough to notice something amiss and responsible enough to report it, some of the things we may be at risk from are microscopic, or may evolve once here (this isn't me speculating). Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned? Good question. No. I'll look for it tomorrow. Meanwhile, if you're staying up later than I am, key words are Professor Brasier, mycologist, RHS, Forest Research, Imperial College, Science Exchange, Reading University, DEFRA -- perm any or all! I don't know the date, but 23 or 24 November '05 seem likely. Please post a link if you get there first. -- Mike. Ok Mike I have now read all (I think) of the articles you mentioned along with contributions from other speakers. I can't see how you can say:- "The RHS shares my concern" The RHS have merely given a forum for a debate on a topic of interest to everyone. I see no mention of the RHS supporting a particular view, which is the way it should be. Have I missed something or some quote from them ? |
#10
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Import of plant from USA
Rupert wrote:
[...] Ok Mike I have now read all (I think) of the articles you mentioned along with contributions from other speakers. I can't see how you can say:- "The RHS shares my concern" The RHS have merely given a forum for a debate on a topic of interest to everyone. I see no mention of the RHS supporting a particular view, which is the way it should be. Have I missed something or some quote from them ? They saw fit to give space to Ingram's views in _The Plantsman_. They may not agree, but that shows they take the matter seriously; as I said in my reply to Michael Adams, I'm at the stage of "wondering if", and it's clear that the RHS shares at least that level of concern. And, for what it's worth, without naming a source or giving a reference, the _Independent_ article did say "His views are backed by the Royal Horticultural Society, which fears another epidemic..." -- Mike. |
#11
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Import of plant from USA
In article , "Mike Lyle"
wrote: Rupert wrote: [...] Ok Mike I have now read all (I think) of the articles you mentioned along with contributions from other speakers. I can't see how you can say:- "The RHS shares my concern" The RHS have merely given a forum for a debate on a topic of interest to everyone. I see no mention of the RHS supporting a particular view, which is the way it should be. Has anyone read "Invasion Biology: Critique of a Pseudoscience", by David I Theodoropoulos? I haven't myself but it seems to have bearing on this debate. You can see details at http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/Books.htm along with a few other, well, er, offbeat books. J.L.Hudsons also appear to be a source of Gibberellic acid in small quantities, though what happens when it comes through UK customs I have no idea. |
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