"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle"
[...]
Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor, increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


If we banned the international movement of all living creatures and
the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more
sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious
discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject was
presented at a conference at Reading University last week.

--
Mike.


My answer was quite serious.
The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved without a
phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the thing arrives it
will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically inspected and certified it.
Finally it's up to me to report anything I notice amiss. you want How much
more safety do you think we require?

Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned?

Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle"
[...]
Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor,
increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced
against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


If we banned the international movement of all living creatures
and
the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more
sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious
discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject
was
presented at a conference at Reading University last week.

--
Mike.


My answer was quite serious.

You mean "serious", as in "banning...the trade in fruit and veg"?

The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved
without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the
thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically
inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report
anything
I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we
require?

The worry is that those measures seem to have proved insufficient in
the past. There are several reasons: the cleansing and inspection
regimes don't seem to be perfectly effective; and even if you are
skilled enough to notice something amiss and responsible enough to
report it, some of the things we may be at risk from are microscopic,
or may evolve once here (this isn't me speculating).

Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned?

Good question. No. I'll look for it tomorrow. Meanwhile, if you're
staying up later than I am, key words are Professor Brasier,
mycologist, RHS, Forest Research, Imperial College, Science Exchange,
Reading University, DEFRA -- perm any or all! I don't know the date,
but 23 or 24 November '05 seem likely. Please post a link if you get
there first.

--
Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle"
[...]
Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor,
increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced
against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


If we banned the international movement of all living creatures
and
the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more
sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious
discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject
was
presented at a conference at Reading University last week.

--
Mike.


My answer was quite serious.

You mean "serious", as in "banning...the trade in fruit and veg"?

The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved
without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the
thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically
inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report
anything
I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we
require?

The worry is that those measures seem to have proved insufficient in
the past. There are several reasons: the cleansing and inspection
regimes don't seem to be perfectly effective; and even if you are
skilled enough to notice something amiss and responsible enough to
report it, some of the things we may be at risk from are microscopic,
or may evolve once here (this isn't me speculating).

Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned?

Good question. No. I'll look for it tomorrow. Meanwhile, if you're
staying up later than I am, key words are Professor Brasier,
mycologist, RHS, Forest Research, Imperial College, Science Exchange,
Reading University, DEFRA -- perm any or all! I don't know the date,
but 23 or 24 November '05 seem likely. Please post a link if you get
there first.

--
Mike.

Thanks for the info Mike I will search for the item .

Fruit and Veg and seeds pose just as much risk as any other plant material.
I think the rules are adequate . As and when something happens then again I
think the current DEFRA systems can cope.
I

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle"
[...]
Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor,
increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced
against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


If we banned the international movement of all living creatures
and
the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more
sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious
discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject
was
presented at a conference at Reading University last week.

--
Mike.


My answer was quite serious.

You mean "serious", as in "banning...the trade in fruit and veg"?

The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved
without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the
thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically
inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report
anything
I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we
require?

The worry is that those measures seem to have proved insufficient in
the past. There are several reasons: the cleansing and inspection
regimes don't seem to be perfectly effective; and even if you are
skilled enough to notice something amiss and responsible enough to
report it, some of the things we may be at risk from are microscopic,
or may evolve once here (this isn't me speculating).

Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned?

Good question. No. I'll look for it tomorrow. Meanwhile, if you're
staying up later than I am, key words are Professor Brasier,
mycologist, RHS, Forest Research, Imperial College, Science Exchange,
Reading University, DEFRA -- perm any or all! I don't know the date,
but 23 or 24 November '05 seem likely. Please post a link if you get
there first.

--
Mike.

This is the article:-
http://forests.org/articles/reader.asp?linkid=48617

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Rupert wrote:
"Mike Lyle"
[...]
Broadening the discussion, I wonder if it's time to stop the
importation of plants altogether. Is the, perhaps minor,
increased
risk of introducing pests and diseases worth it, balanced
against
any, perhaps modest, benefit?

--
Mike.


If we banned the international movement of all living creatures
and
the trade in fruit and veg etc etc then you might make a more
sanitary
environment (boringly sterile)

I was actually raising a serious question, in the hope of serious
discussion. The RHS shares my concern, and a paper on the subject
was
presented at a conference at Reading University last week.

--
Mike.


My answer was quite serious.

You mean "serious", as in "banning...the trade in fruit and veg"?

The plant in question is coming from the USA and can't be moved
without a phytosanitation certificate issued over there. Once the
thing arrives it will not be shifted until DEFRA have physically
inspected and certified it. Finally it's up to me to report
anything
I notice amiss. you want How much more safety do you think we
require?

The worry is that those measures seem to have proved insufficient in
the past. There are several reasons: the cleansing and inspection
regimes don't seem to be perfectly effective; and even if you are
skilled enough to notice something amiss and responsible enough to
report it, some of the things we may be at risk from are microscopic,
or may evolve once here (this isn't me speculating).

Do you have a link to the RHS paper you mentioned?

Good question. No. I'll look for it tomorrow. Meanwhile, if you're
staying up later than I am, key words are Professor Brasier,
mycologist, RHS, Forest Research, Imperial College, Science Exchange,
Reading University, DEFRA -- perm any or all! I don't know the date,
but 23 or 24 November '05 seem likely. Please post a link if you get
there first.

--
Mike.


Ok Mike I have now read all (I think) of the articles you mentioned along
with contributions from other speakers.
I can't see how you can say:-
"The RHS shares my concern"
The RHS have merely given a forum for a debate on a topic of interest to
everyone.
I see no mention of the RHS supporting a particular view, which is the way
it should be.

Have I missed something or some quote from them ?

Rupert wrote:
[...]
Ok Mike I have now read all (I think) of the articles you mentioned
along with contributions from other speakers.
I can't see how you can say:-
"The RHS shares my concern"
The RHS have merely given a forum for a debate on a topic of
interest
to everyone.
I see no mention of the RHS supporting a particular view, which is
the way it should be.

Have I missed something or some quote from them ?

They saw fit to give space to Ingram's views in _The Plantsman_. They
may not agree, but that shows they take the matter seriously; as I
said in my reply to Michael Adams, I'm at the stage of "wondering
if", and it's clear that the RHS shares at least that level of
concern. And, for what it's worth, without naming a source or giving
a reference, the _Independent_ article did say "His views are backed
by the Royal Horticultural Society, which fears another epidemic..."

--
Mike.

In article , "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

Rupert wrote:
[...]
Ok Mike I have now read all (I think) of the articles you mentioned
along with contributions from other speakers.
I can't see how you can say:-
"The RHS shares my concern"
The RHS have merely given a forum for a debate on a topic of
interest
to everyone.
I see no mention of the RHS supporting a particular view, which is
the way it should be.

Has anyone read "Invasion Biology: Critique of a Pseudoscience",
by David I Theodoropoulos? I haven't myself but it seems to have
bearing on this debate. You can see details at
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/Books.htm
along with a few other, well, er, offbeat books.

J.L.Hudsons also appear to be a source of Gibberellic acid in small
quantities, though what happens when it comes through UK customs
I have no idea.