A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions - to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites' is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions - to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites'
is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Not quite the same thing but I filled out a DTI form for export statistics
stating that we had exported 1 milligram of a weird organic chemical at
£1800 which translated through their system at £1800,000,000 per ton.
(£1.8bn?)
We had vast fun with the men from the Ministry until they realised we were
not the saviours of the British Economy.

Sorry I digress, this doesn't help with your problem.
Do *not* mention the bonfire. Environmental pollution act (as
amended.......subsec......para...............)

Rupert wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...

A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions - to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites'
is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)


Not quite the same thing but I filled out a DTI form for export statistics
stating that we had exported 1 milligram of a weird organic chemical at
£1800 which translated through their system at £1800,000,000 per ton.
(£1.8bn?)
We had vast fun with the men from the Ministry until they realised we were
not the saviours of the British Economy.

Sorry I digress, this doesn't help with your problem.
Do *not* mention the bonfire.

I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it.

Environmental pollution act (as
amended.......subsec......para...............)

Not quite the same thing but I filled out a DTI form for export statistics
stating that we had exported 1 milligram of a weird organic chemical at
£1800 which translated through their system at £1800,000,000 per ton.
(£1.8bn?)
We had vast fun with the men from the Ministry until they realised we were
not the saviours of the British Economy.


I love officialdom and forms :-))

My first factory was a Starter Unit and was in the days of separate rates
and water rates. Southern Water wrote to us, all 18 new units slapping a
water rate on us. Wrong. We sent the forms back. 'No water = no water rates'
Back came the forms, 'The rain falling on the roof goes into the drains.
Herewith your water rate forms" Wrong. 'These starter units are on reclaimed
marsh land and the water is returned to the marshes' by now I have got
involved because I was on the Chamber of Commerce Small Business Club
Committee and dragged the local MP and Enterprise Agency Director in :-))

Back came the forms, "You have toilet facilities". Correct, "but still wrong
to send the forms to us 18 Unit holders. The toilet and wash room block is
still owned, managed and cleaned by the Landlord and we pay a weekly rent as
a seperate item for this. Go see the Landlord, Papers returned herewith"

We won :-)) of course. They chose the wrong person in picking on me :-))

Mike

On 16/12/05 12:50 am, in article , "Rupert"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions - to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites'
is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Not quite the same thing but I filled out a DTI form for export statistics
stating that we had exported 1 milligram of a weird organic chemical at
£1800 which translated through their system at £1800,000,000 per ton.
(£1.8bn?)
We had vast fun with the men from the Ministry until they realised we were
not the saviours of the British Economy.

Sorry I digress, this doesn't help with your problem.
Do *not* mention the bonfire. Environmental pollution act (as
amended.......subsec......para...............)


Groan! Another horrible possibility - except that I think nurserymen,
horticulturists, agriculturists etc. are allowed bonfires. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 16/12/05 12:50 am, in article , "Rupert"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions -
to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for
your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites'
is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Not quite the same thing but I filled out a DTI form for export
statistics
stating that we had exported 1 milligram of a weird organic chemical at
£1800 which translated through their system at £1800,000,000 per ton.
(£1.8bn?)
We had vast fun with the men from the Ministry until they realised we
were
not the saviours of the British Economy.

Sorry I digress, this doesn't help with your problem.
Do *not* mention the bonfire. Environmental pollution act (as
amended.......subsec......para...............)


Groan! Another horrible possibility - except that I think nurserymen,
horticulturists, agriculturists etc. are allowed bonfires. ;-)

Does that mean I'm not?

Alan

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Alan Holmes wrote:
"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...

On 16/12/05 12:50 am, in article , "Rupert"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
.co.uk...

A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions -
to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for
your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites'
is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)


Not quite the same thing but I filled out a DTI form for export
statistics
stating that we had exported 1 milligram of a weird organic chemical at
£1800 which translated through their system at £1800,000,000 per ton.
(£1.8bn?)
We had vast fun with the men from the Ministry until they realised we
were
not the saviours of the British Economy.

Sorry I digress, this doesn't help with your problem.
Do *not* mention the bonfire. Environmental pollution act (as
amended.......subsec......para............... )



Groan! Another horrible possibility - except that I think nurserymen,
horticulturists, agriculturists etc. are allowed bonfires. ;-)


Does that mean I'm not?

Alan


--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)




I wish it did, not to Alan singularly but generally. I am fed up with
my neighbour who cannot go 2 weeks without a smoky bonfire, and she
calls herself an environmentalist. I asked her one day why she did not
compost everything (as I do), she replied that she thought composters
and heaps looked untidy. We both have large sloping gardens, in excess
of 1/2 acre, pity she can't hide them.

--
Please do not reply to this Email address
All Emails are deleted upon receipt.

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 16/12/05 12:50 am, in article , "Rupert"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh.
Questions - to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for
your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire
sites'
is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Not quite the same thing but I filled out a DTI form for export
statistics
stating that we had exported 1 milligram of a weird organic chemical at
£1800 which translated through their system at £1800,000,000 per ton.
(£1.8bn?)
We had vast fun with the men from the Ministry until they realised we
were
not the saviours of the British Economy.

Sorry I digress, this doesn't help with your problem.
Do *not* mention the bonfire. Environmental pollution act (as
amended.......subsec......para...............)


Groan! Another horrible possibility - except that I think nurserymen,
horticulturists, agriculturists etc. are allowed bonfires. ;-)

Does that mean I'm not?

Alan

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)


Anyone can have a bonfire-but if the smoke causes a nuisance and someone
complains to the
EPA then you can get into deep trouble.
AFAIK there are no exclusions.
The same rules apply to making smells (abattoirs -muck spreading-chemical
factories-chip shops-curry houses etc etc).
There is cheap efficient technology to avoid the above problems but I dread
to think what would happen if your neighbour took a dislike to the smell of
your Honeysuckle.

On 16/12/05 11:48 am, in article ,
"Alan Holmes" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 16/12/05 12:50 am, in article , "Rupert"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions -
to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for
your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites'
is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Not quite the same thing but I filled out a DTI form for export
statistics
stating that we had exported 1 milligram of a weird organic chemical at
£1800 which translated through their system at £1800,000,000 per ton.
(£1.8bn?)
We had vast fun with the men from the Ministry until they realised we
were
not the saviours of the British Economy.

Sorry I digress, this doesn't help with your problem.
Do *not* mention the bonfire. Environmental pollution act (as
amended.......subsec......para...............)


Groan! Another horrible possibility - except that I think nurserymen,
horticulturists, agriculturists etc. are allowed bonfires. ;-)

Does that mean I'm not?

Alan

I don't know, Alan. Aren't there byelaws and things, in some areas, that
prevent people from lighting bonfires?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

On 16/12/05 11:52 am, in article , "Kay
Easton" wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions - to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites' is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)

But look at it from their pov. Imagine the administrative cost of
designing a different form for each class of enterprise, finding out
which category every business fell in to, and then making sure you sent
the right form.

But Kay, why do they need to know that our employees smoke, don't smoke or
have places in which to smoke? Whose business is it but ours and that of
our employees and customers? And nobody smokes near customers.
It's just more nanny state-ing, IMO and an explanation of why the numbers
of civil servants rise year after year. They're all thinking up new forms,
sending them out, gathering them back in, sending out reminders to those who
haven't returned them, reading them and THEN passing them on to someone else
to read, stamp, add up and pass on to yet another department. I think it's
intrusive and patronising! Unless they're going to pass a law *insisting*
that employers provide smoking rooms for people who usually work outdoors, I
can't imagine what the point of this doubtlessly expensive exercise was!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In message , Sacha
writes
A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions -
to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites'
is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)

But look at it from their pov. Imagine the administrative cost of
designing a different form for each class of enterprise, finding out which
category every business fell in to, and then making sure you sent the
right form.
--
Kay

I live now in a rural area where you have to have a "burn permit" (except
when there is a burn restriction like we had this late summer and throughout
fall due to the crispy drought we had) which apparently consists of going
down to the courthouse in town (I live in Jefferson County, which is the
county seat for the whole area.......so Dandridge is in the county seat,
whereas Jefferson City 14 miles away is part of Jefferson county, but not
part of the county seat......too much politikal hair splitting if you ask
me.......) telling them you need a burn permit, and they give you a simple
piece of paper that says you can legally burn brush and what not for two
days. The trick apparently is to get these on Friday, which would give you
the extra day to clear woods and property.

I am from the city, where a burn permit, literally meant going to the CITY
court house, paying MONEY, and getting written permission that had been
notified and stamped and all that bru ha ha, and allowed to burn whatever
(not toxic stuff or tires or such stuff) so that when the fire department
showed up to kick my ass, I was all paid and legal............... for said
same two days......since I am now living in an area that once was
unrestricted (just a scant eleven years ago when we first bought this
strange place) made me realize the routines I had gotten into regularly and
taken for granted. You know.......trash pickup instead of trying to find
someone who came around and picked it up for you and took it to the landfill
instead of you figuring out what all to do with it all.

I also recycled quite a bit before the cities started mandatory recycling
(which I think is a great idea due to the dwindling spaces in the
landfills), but I've composted my kitchen waste for well over 30 years
anyway, since I adore compost. That lightens my load going to the dump
considerably. The newspaper recycling wasn't necessary as I don't take the
paper, but if I did get a Sunday issue, I'd shred it up and put it in the
compost pile down near the woods to break down slowly and use elsewhere.

The bottle recycling and cans and what not is done just inside of town, but
not out where I am yet, as I live just a mile from "city" limits (that's a
smile since there are subdivisions that are popping up like mushrooms
around here when the older folk are keeling over and their children are
selling the family farm lands, and more and more people are relocating since
all the natural weather disasters recently). Little things I once took for
granted living and growing up in the city are now appreciated.

I can burn my cardboard and paper, but these last 11 years I just separate
it, pile it in a cold compost pile to break down over time, send the other
stuff to the landfill after paying the little man who picked up the routes
when the trash company went out of business (how does a trash business go
OUT of business when there are so many customers with trash daily building
up??) and sometimes when I am overwhelmed by my paper accumulation, I go
insane and burn it in the burn bin the previous owner built for his daughter
when he built the house for her wedding present and pour the ashes at the
base of the jack pines where the poison ivy is clambering back up, in hopes
to slow the noxious stuff down. ( I love the beauty of it in the fall, but
hate it because it's so tenacious and the birds are intent on filling my
woods up with it so you can't walk without risking exposure......so I also
take an ax and whack the vine to cut off the food source, and those evil
white berries that form at the tops of the trees that the birds love
SSOOOOOOOOOOOOOO well)

Sounds like the politiks are the same with just a different tweek......

I was "amused" to hear the local news the other night talking about area's
of Knoxville (43 miles from me and what I consider a CITY) that have
horrible air emissions and air pollution, and I had to laugh.....if they had
mandatory yearly auto emission's tests and stickers that cost the drivers to
pass like we did in Nashville, we wouldn't have these pollution problems. I
was shocked to learn upon relocating here 14 years ago that they DIDN'T have
emissions tests and stickers. Which explained the horrible air quality in
Gatlinburg up in the mountains. You can't blame it all on the tourists. You
have to do something locally first. Sorry, didn't mean to get started.
Being a gardener I am way more aware of enviromental issues (that and old
hippies are still aware gbseg

heck over here, they're talking about making it illegal to smoke your
cigarettes at HOME.....(there is a company in Michigan where apparently
they've gotten away with it. the logic being that smokers are sicker and
cost more in insurance and days missed. And they explain they're a strict no
smoking at anytime anywhere company and test for it regularly so if you test
positive, you're fired). Just about every place now is a "no smokers" zone.
I don't smoke cigarettes, (the occaisonal left handed one, yes, the nicotine
soaked stuff, no.......allergic) but I feel for smokers. the tobacco
industries have made sure they have their lab rats that wear clothing hooked
really well and then stand back when the rest of the people who are getting
more and more intolerant about the smokers start passing legislation on the
ones who smoke. I live with smokers. So I understand it from both sides.

And I'd figure smoking behind where the bon fires are done would be a
perfect place! (my son says that the smokers at the Lowes where he's a night
stocker smoke in the "bull pen" where the large equipment and pallets and
odd stuff is kept behind a chain link fence just outside the loading docks
in the back. If you gotta smoke 'em, yer gonna get cold............)

madgardener

"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 16/12/05 11:52 am, in article ,
"Kay
Easton" wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions -
to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for
your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites'
is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)

But look at it from their pov. Imagine the administrative cost of
designing a different form for each class of enterprise, finding out
which category every business fell in to, and then making sure you sent
the right form.

But Kay, why do they need to know that our employees smoke, don't smoke or
have places in which to smoke? Whose business is it but ours and that of
our employees and customers? And nobody smokes near customers.
It's just more nanny state-ing, IMO and an explanation of why the numbers
of civil servants rise year after year. They're all thinking up new
forms,
sending them out, gathering them back in, sending out reminders to those
who
haven't returned them, reading them and THEN passing them on to someone
else
to read, stamp, add up and pass on to yet another department. I think
it's
intrusive and patronising! Unless they're going to pass a law *insisting*
that employers provide smoking rooms for people who usually work outdoors,
I
can't imagine what the point of this doubtlessly expensive exercise was!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

As Kay said it's a generalised form.The data,at a guess, will be used for
statistical processing.
Subsequently it will probably be used to make further decisions about
"Smoking in the Workplace" legislation.
Health and Safety act applies to everyone.

I trust your Coshh assessment is current and has recently been audited:-)

On 16/12/05 6:43 pm, in article , "Rupert"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
.uk...
On 16/12/05 11:52 am, in article ,
"Kay
Easton" wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes
A Healthy & Safety form arrived today which made us laugh. Questions -
to
a nursery where everyone works either outdoors or in large glasshouses:
"how many of your workers smoke; do you set aside a special area for
your
workers to smoke?" I'm not quite sure that 'back of the bonfire sites'
is
what they're looking for as an answer. ;-)

But look at it from their pov. Imagine the administrative cost of
designing a different form for each class of enterprise, finding out
which category every business fell in to, and then making sure you sent
the right form.

But Kay, why do they need to know that our employees smoke, don't smoke or
have places in which to smoke? Whose business is it but ours and that of
our employees and customers? And nobody smokes near customers.
It's just more nanny state-ing, IMO and an explanation of why the numbers
of civil servants rise year after year. They're all thinking up new
forms,
sending them out, gathering them back in, sending out reminders to those
who
haven't returned them, reading them and THEN passing them on to someone
else
to read, stamp, add up and pass on to yet another department. I think
it's
intrusive and patronising! Unless they're going to pass a law *insisting*
that employers provide smoking rooms for people who usually work outdoors,
I
can't imagine what the point of this doubtlessly expensive exercise was!
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

As Kay said it's a generalised form.The data,at a guess, will be used for
statistical processing.

Oh, whoopdedoo. More bloody statistics floating around the ether for someone
to do damn all about for 10 years and then to publish them as a "scientists
have discovered.........."

Subsequently it will probably be used to make further decisions about
"Smoking in the Workplace" legislation.
Health and Safety act applies to everyone.

My point precisely. None of their damned business. Can't people make their
own decisions any more? Are we not to be trusted to use our common sense
ever again?


I trust your Coshh assessment is current and has recently been audited:-)

My cosh is just fine, thanks - and on standby. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

In message , Sacha
writes

But Kay, why do they need to know that our employees smoke, don't smoke or
have places in which to smoke?

If they need to know at all, then they need to know it equally of your
establishment than of any other. I thought your original comment was
about the inappropriateness of the form to your particular
circumstances, rather than that you didn't feel *anyone* should have got
the form.

Whose business is it but ours and that of
our employees and customers? And nobody smokes near customers.
It's just more nanny state-ing, IMO

I'm not going to get into any political argument!

--
Kay

On 16/12/05 8:05 pm, in article , "Kay
Easton" wrote:

In message , Sacha
writes

But Kay, why do they need to know that our employees smoke, don't smoke or
have places in which to smoke?

If they need to know at all, then they need to know it equally of your
establishment than of any other. I thought your original comment was
about the inappropriateness of the form to your particular
circumstances, rather than that you didn't feel *anyone* should have got
the form.

That's fair comment but I would hope some common sense might be applied IF
they feel the need to nanny the entire country into a total lack of personal
responsibility.

Whose business is it but ours and that of
our employees and customers? And nobody smokes near customers.
It's just more nanny state-ing, IMO

I'm not going to get into any political argument!

How wise!

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)