My greenhouse normally gets heated with paraffin as I do not have
electricity wired so far down the garden.
I wondered about using a small generator to power an electric heater and
also lighting if feasible.
Anyone with any experience of using one? Would be grateful for any pros and
cons and also a model which wont break the bank (already nearly broken with
the demands of the season)
Jim

"Padger" wrote:

I wondered about using a small generator to power an electric heater and
also lighting if feasible

Using the generator to power electric heat would be pretty inefficient;
better to use the fuel to run a combustion type heater, which is pretty
much what you're doing now.

How much light do you need? If it's just enough to work after sunset,
think about 12-volt lighting, storage battery, and a smallish solar panel
to charge it. Assuming the GH is far enough from regular power that
running wiring would be too costly.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:15:05 GMT, Padger wrote:

My greenhouse normally gets heated with paraffin

At what 30p/l?

I wondered about using a small generator to power an electric heater
and also lighting if feasible.

Feasable but not very economic if using a petrol genny with fuel at
90p/l (most of which is duty to MHG...) similar for diesel unless you
can get red diesel in small quantities nearby, which should cost about
the same as parrafin.

Then there is the noise, will your neighbours appreciate a generator
running at night to keep your green house warm?

For light I've bought one of these:

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSea...KU=LA00362&N=4
11

http://makeashorterlink.com/?C33A25DFB

For the shed, (yet to be installed) it'll run of a 12v sealed lead
acid quite happily and puts out a goodly amount of light. The 100W GLS
wouldn't be far from the mark.

Even a small 2 stroke 750W chinese generator is going to cost you
around £70.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The message om
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:15:05 GMT, Padger wrote:

My greenhouse normally gets heated with paraffin

At what 30p/l?

I wondered about using a small generator to power an electric heater
and also lighting if feasible.

Think, man, think!

Use fuel to provide electricity, and you waste energy in the generation,
the transmission and in turning the electricity to heat. It would cost
you about a third as much to burn the fuel to produce the heat.

Feasable but not very economic if using a petrol genny with fuel at
90p/l (most of which is duty to MHG...) similar for diesel unless you
can get red diesel in small quantities nearby, which should cost about
the same as parrafin.

Red diesel is a *LOT* cheaper than paraffin.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:03:27 GMT, Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:

Use fuel to provide electricity, and you waste energy in the
generation, the transmission and in turning the electricity to heat.

I did think that if you ran the generator in the greenhouse you'd
benefit from the waste heat but you'd really need to vent the exhuast
outside so you'f loose the heat in that, a significant proportion of
the heat input.

Red diesel is a *LOT* cheaper than paraffin.

Well if you buy parrafin in 5l containers from a garden center I'd
agree. I buy it in some what larger quantities for around 30p/l. A few
years back it ws 17p/l. Kerosene, parrafin, 28sec domestic heating oil
are all the same stuff. Some might be "perfumed" and slightly better
refined but it's all essentially the same stuff.

Not sure how much Red is these days, I'd expect about 40p/l as it does
carry a bit of Duty.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The message
from Dave the exTrailer contains these words:

To stop the frost getting at my wifes plants in the greengouse we have
a very old pottery style hot water bottle that my wife fills with hot
water and puts it in the greenhouse overnight and sometime in the day.
It worked a treat last year and seems to be doing the job this year

Big bottle, or small greenhouse?

I use a hurricane lamp to keep the frost out of my wossname thing
outside the back door - previous inhabitants called it a conservatory,
estate agent (surprisingly) was more realistic and billed it as a porch
- and so far, the hurricane lamp has been deployed with success and
economy.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

The message om
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:03:27 GMT, Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:

Use fuel to provide electricity, and you waste energy in the
generation, the transmission and in turning the electricity to heat.

I did think that if you ran the generator in the greenhouse you'd
benefit from the waste heat but you'd really need to vent the exhuast
outside so you'f loose the heat in that, a significant proportion of
the heat input.

Red diesel is a *LOT* cheaper than paraffin.

Well if you buy parrafin in 5l containers from a garden center I'd
agree. I buy it in some what larger quantities for around 30p/l. A few
years back it ws 17p/l. Kerosene, parrafin, 28sec domestic heating oil
are all the same stuff. Some might be "perfumed" and slightly better
refined but it's all essentially the same stuff.

I buy paraffin (parum affinis) from a big tank at my local garage, and
it costs about four quid a gallon. last time I bought small quantities
of red diesel it was fifty pence per gallon.

Not sure how much Red is these days, I'd expect about 40p/l as it does
carry a bit of Duty.

AFAIK it carries no duty for agricultural use. I believe it has been
imposed, or it is proposed to impose duty on it for use on inland
waterways.

--
Rusty
Direct reply to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co period uk
Separator in search of a sig

Thanks for prompt responses people.
Gives me some food for thought.
Light has never really been a problem as I tend not to work in dark hourand
when I need to go to GH in dark I use torch.
Perhaps one day I will get round to installing leccy.
Jim

In article , Rusty Hinge
2 writes
The message om
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 11:03:27 GMT, Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:

Use fuel to provide electricity, and you waste energy in the
generation, the transmission and in turning the electricity to heat.

I did think that if you ran the generator in the greenhouse you'd
benefit from the waste heat but you'd really need to vent the exhuast
outside so you'f loose the heat in that, a significant proportion of
the heat input.

Red diesel is a *LOT* cheaper than paraffin.

Well if you buy parrafin in 5l containers from a garden center I'd
agree. I buy it in some what larger quantities for around 30p/l. A few
years back it ws 17p/l. Kerosene, parrafin, 28sec domestic heating oil
are all the same stuff. Some might be "perfumed" and slightly better
refined but it's all essentially the same stuff.

I buy paraffin (parum affinis) from a big tank at my local garage, and
it costs about four quid a gallon. last time I bought small quantities
of red diesel it was fifty pence per gallon.

You can buy heating oil from your local depot at the domestic heating
fuel price ~30p/litre, I take in 25ltr containers and they fill them
from the pump, our local one in Stowmarket (IIRC you are out this way?)
also has paraffin but I think the rate of VAT is higher

Not sure how much Red is these days, I'd expect about 40p/l as it does
carry a bit of Duty.

AFAIK it carries no duty for agricultural use. I believe it has been
imposed, or it is proposed to impose duty on it for use on inland
waterways.


--
David

Padger wrote:

My greenhouse normally gets heated with paraffin as I do not have
electricity wired so far down the garden.

It is basically a non-starter. The only way you could do better than
turning the parafin directly into heat would be to install a very
expensive heat pump system that produced a perma-frost under your lawn
and would always be least effective in the coldest weather.

I wondered about using a small generator to power an electric heater and
also lighting if feasible.
Anyone with any experience of using one? Would be grateful for any pros and
cons and also a model which wont break the bank (already nearly broken with
the demands of the season)

What you can do with a reasonable level of success is buy a couple of
12v lead acid gel cell batteries around the 18Ah rating and a suitable
charger. Then you can run fairly safe low voltage lighting or slightly
more risky fluorescent lamps from that low voltage battery in the
greenhouse.

Treat the batteries carefully and they will last pretty well. You
recharge them off mains electricity in the house

I did the sums once for making it solar powered - the payback time was
longer than the MTBF of the solar panel. Maplin has most of the bits
although Bull Electrical is usually cheaper for the batteries. Wind
power is possible if you are handy at scavenging in scrapyards and DIY.

Regards,
Martin Brown

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:16:36 GMT, Rusty Hinge 2 wrote:

I buy paraffin (parum affinis) from a big tank at my local garage,
and it costs about four quid a gallon.

£1/l fing expensive...

Not sure how much Red is these days, I'd expect about 40p/l as it
does carry a bit of Duty.

AFAIK it carries no duty for agricultural use. I believe it has been
imposed, or it is proposed to impose duty on it for use on inland
waterways.

HMRC site wibbles on about "rebated heavy oil" ie red diesel & gas oil
that have some duty applied and "fully rebated" oils carrying no duty
such as kerosene for heating. This implies that red does carry duty
where fully rebated oils don't. I can't make sense of the pages
detailing duty rates...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:58:20 +0000, David wrote:

You can buy heating oil from your local depot at the domestic
heating fuel price ~30p/litre, I take in 25ltr containers and they
fill them from the pump, our local one in Stowmarket (IIRC you are
out this way?) also has paraffin but I think the rate of VAT is
higher.

As this kersene (28 sec heating oil) is to be used for heating the VAT
rate should be 5%. If you used the same oil for anything other than
heating the VAT rate should be 17.5%...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

My dad used a wood burning stove about 100 years ago the door to it was on the outside of the GH and I remember it worked very well, as a retired sparks I like the idea of a genny but as already mentioned it would be costly to run a 2 or 3 kilowatt heater, and it would have to run day and night. lighting again mentioned earlier is a simple matter with a battery, well thats m h o.

On 29/12/05 13:16, in article
, "Rusty Hinge 2"
wrote:

The message om
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:
snip

Not sure how much Red is these days, I'd expect about 40p/l as it does
carry a bit of Duty.

AFAIK it carries no duty for agricultural use. I believe it has been
imposed, or it is proposed to impose duty on it for use on inland
waterways.

I think the red diesel carries 5% duty up to something like 2,300 gallons.
Over that and it leaps to 17%.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:38:56 +0000, Sacha wrote:

I think the red diesel carries 5% duty up to something like 2,300
gallons. Over that and it leaps to 17%.

Other fuel duties are fixed amounts per litre so a percentage on x
gallons is not likely. Though knowing HM Revenue & Customs anything is
possible! B-)

Had a dig on the web rather than the HMR&C site and got better
results... Looks like the duty on Red Diesel is about to go up by
1.22p/l to 6.46p/l. HMG says this is to combat fraud, ie those using
red illegally in road vehicles. Not many people buy this as duty on
road diesel is 47.1p/l...

Not getting confused with VAT? Oil for heating attracts VAT at 5% like
other energy sources (gas, electric). Oil for other purposes,
transport, lubrication etc attracts VAT at 17.5%.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail