Since we started summer feeding two years ago, there has been a huge
decline in the numbers of birds and numbers of species coming for the
food: a tenth the number of various kinds of tits and of blackbirds,
etc., and, most worryingly, no parents of any kind feeding young except
crows, magpies, and jackdaws. I blamed it on the sparrowhawk, as there
are very few cats around here. However, there are ever more squirrels,
surrounded, as we are, by the Evelyn chestnuts.

And then:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...05/29/nsquir29.
xml&sSheet=/news/2006/05/29/ixuknews.html

so that's it ;-(((

--
Klara, Gatwick basin

On Mon, 29 May 2006 14:04:16 +0100, Klara wrote
(in article ):


Since we started summer feeding two years ago, there has been a huge
decline in the numbers of birds and numbers of species coming for the
food: a tenth the number of various kinds of tits and of blackbirds,
etc., and, most worryingly, no parents of any kind feeding young except
crows, magpies, and jackdaws. I blamed it on the sparrowhawk, as there
are very few cats around here. However, there are ever more squirrels,
surrounded, as we are, by the Evelyn chestnuts.

And then:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...05/29/nsquir29.
xml&sSheet=/news/2006/05/29/ixuknews.html

so that's it ;-(((



It certainly is. We get some squirrels here but not many and it's a brave
cat that ventures into our garden, as we have 3 dogs of our own and one that
visits most days. While I do appreciate that people love their cats, there
is no doubt that they contribute dreadfully to the loss of wild birds and I
wish people could either restrain themselves to owning one at a time, or
putting bells on them.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
email address on web site

Klara wrote:

Since we started summer feeding two years ago, there has been a huge
decline in the numbers of birds and numbers of species coming for the
food: a tenth the number of various kinds of tits and of blackbirds,
etc., and, most worryingly, no parents of any kind feeding young except
crows, magpies, and jackdaws.

We have two active farms, one at either end of our village. At my end
the farmer is very proactive in destroying corvids to protect his lambs.
At the other the farmer does nothing to control these pests. Surprise,
surprise, we have dozens of species of song-bird feeding in our garden.
Villagers at the other end are wondering why they have none. Forget the
cats - get a Larsen trap.

"Sacha Hubbard" wrote in message
al.net...

It certainly is. We get some squirrels here but not many and it's a brave
cat that ventures into our garden, as we have 3 dogs of our own and one
that
visits most days. While I do appreciate that people love their cats,
there
is no doubt that they contribute dreadfully to the loss of wild birds and
I
wish people could either restrain themselves to owning one at a time, or
putting bells on them.

I am sure I will regret posting this.... but I have three cats. only one
goes out and about hunting. he is the one with the loudest bell on his
collar. we can hear him walking over the field. but I am afraid to say
that my efforts to make birds more aware of his presence is not enough.

we live next to farmland and as a result we get lots of mice and rats. he
catches a fair few rodents on his travels. he's welcome to them so long as
he doesn't bring them in through the cat flap.

could someone recap the telegraph article? the link would not work for me.

On Mon, 29 May 2006 14:26:32 +0100, Space wrote
(in article ):


"Sacha Hubbard" wrote in message
al.net...

It certainly is. We get some squirrels here but not many and it's a brave
cat that ventures into our garden, as we have 3 dogs of our own and one
that
visits most days. While I do appreciate that people love their cats,
there
is no doubt that they contribute dreadfully to the loss of wild birds and
I
wish people could either restrain themselves to owning one at a time, or
putting bells on them.

I am sure I will regret posting this.... but I have three cats. only one
goes out and about hunting. he is the one with the loudest bell on his
collar. we can hear him walking over the field. but I am afraid to say
that my efforts to make birds more aware of his presence is not enough.

we live next to farmland and as a result we get lots of mice and rats. he
catches a fair few rodents on his travels. he's welcome to them so long as
he doesn't bring them in through the cat flap.

could someone recap the telegraph article? the link would not work for me.



Here's an extract:
"The grey squirrel and the domestic cat are preventing the recovery of
Britain's songbirds, which were devastated by intensive farming and the
removal of hedges in the post-war years, says a new report.

The report says that in areas of high grey squirrel density, 93 per cent of
small bird nests are raided.
Of the two introduced predators, the grey squirrel kills more young songbirds
than the cat.
The findings of the report, commissioned by the charity, SongBird Survival,
are likely to challenge the received wisdom about the decline in songbird
populations since the 1950s and what has prevented many from recovering over
the past 15 years when farmers have been using fewer chemicals and
participating in green farming schemes.
The author of the report, Prof Roy Brown, of Birkbeck, University of London,
estimates that overall some 180 million adult songbirds, or their eggs and
young are killed by mammals every year - chiefly squirrels, cats and rats.
That is out of an estimated natural population of 260 million of the main 15
songbird species - blackbird, song thrush, blue tit, great tit, robin,
skylark, meadow pipit, wren, dunnock, whitethroat, greenfinch, chaffinch,
yellowhammer, reed bunting and corn bunting.
The report says that in areas of high grey squirrel density, 93 per cent of
small bird nests are raided. Where this is combined with sparrow hawk
activity, it can result in 100 per cent breeding failure and a loss of 85 per
cent of adult songbirds."

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
email address on web site

On Mon, 29 May 2006 14:21:23 +0100, Derek Turner wrote
(in article ):

Klara wrote:

Since we started summer feeding two years ago, there has been a huge
decline in the numbers of birds and numbers of species coming for the
food: a tenth the number of various kinds of tits and of blackbirds,
etc., and, most worryingly, no parents of any kind feeding young except
crows, magpies, and jackdaws.

We have two active farms, one at either end of our village. At my end
the farmer is very proactive in destroying corvids to protect his lambs.
At the other the farmer does nothing to control these pests. Surprise,
surprise, we have dozens of species of song-bird feeding in our garden.
Villagers at the other end are wondering why they have none. Forget the
cats - get a Larsen trap.

We have a very active rookery at the end of our garden and the garden and
nursery are alive with songbirds. Customers comment frequently on how tame
they are and how unafraid of the many dozens of people milling around here at
times. We feed them all year round, we encourage them in by giving them
plenty of areas in which to nest and by using biological controls in the
greenhouses and wherever possible, in the garden, too. Our rooks (and
jackdaws) are most certainly not reducing our songbird population.


--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
email address on web site

"Sacha Hubbard" wrote in message
al.net...
On Mon, 29 May 2006 14:21:23 +0100, Derek Turner wrote
(in article ):

Klara wrote:

Since we started summer feeding two years ago, there has been a huge
decline in the numbers of birds and numbers of species coming for the
food: a tenth the number of various kinds of tits and of blackbirds,
etc., and, most worryingly, no parents of any kind feeding young except
crows, magpies, and jackdaws.

We have two active farms, one at either end of our village. At my end
the farmer is very proactive in destroying corvids to protect his lambs.
At the other the farmer does nothing to control these pests. Surprise,
surprise, we have dozens of species of song-bird feeding in our garden.
Villagers at the other end are wondering why they have none. Forget the
cats - get a Larsen trap.

We have a very active rookery at the end of our garden and the garden and
nursery are alive with songbirds. Customers comment frequently on how
tame
they are and how unafraid of the many dozens of people milling around here
at
times. We feed them all year round, we encourage them in by giving them
plenty of areas in which to nest and by using biological controls in the
greenhouses and wherever possible, in the garden, too. Our rooks (and
jackdaws) are most certainly not reducing our songbird population.


--
Sacha

We have lots of songbirds, including corn bunting and yellowhammer, reed
bunting and whitethroat, sedge warbler and all the regular garden birds,
plus sparrowhawk everyday, buzzards, kestrels, and lots and lots of crows,
rooks, magpies, and a cat next door. Blaming predators for the decline of
songbirds is barking up the wrong tree- improve the habitat, make sure the
food sources are there (insects! yes, even for seed-eating birds in summer)
and populations will do well, including birds of prey. It is not the
predators which control the prey numbers, it is the prey that controls the
predator numbers. Good numbers of sparrowhawks and buzzards indicates
healthy populations of prey species.
Paul D.

"Derek Turner" wrote in message
...
Klara wrote:

Since we started summer feeding two years ago, there has been a huge
decline in the numbers of birds and numbers of species coming for the
food: a tenth the number of various kinds of tits and of blackbirds,
etc., and, most worryingly, no parents of any kind feeding young except
crows, magpies, and jackdaws.

We have two active farms, one at either end of our village. At my end the
farmer is very proactive in destroying corvids to protect his lambs. At
the other the farmer does nothing to control these pests. Surprise,
surprise, we have dozens of species of song-bird feeding in our garden.
Villagers at the other end are wondering why they have none. Forget the
cats - get a Larsen trap.

I couldn't find corvid in my dictionary!

But if you mean the damned tree rats, then these should be destroyed, I have
three traps, but this year, so far, haven't caught a single one, did well
last year and the year before that though.

Alan

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...
I couldn't find corvid in my dictionary!

But if you mean the damned tree rats, then these should be destroyed, I
have
three traps, but this year, so far, haven't caught a single one, did well
last year and the year before that though.

Alan

it had me stumped too

http://tinyurl.com/qk6hh

Alan Holmes writes

"Derek Turner" wrote in message
...
Klara wrote:

Since we started summer feeding two years ago, there has been a huge
decline in the numbers of birds and numbers of species coming for the
food: a tenth the number of various kinds of tits and of blackbirds,
etc., and, most worryingly, no parents of any kind feeding young except
crows, magpies, and jackdaws.

We have two active farms, one at either end of our village. At my end the
farmer is very proactive in destroying corvids to protect his lambs. At
the other the farmer does nothing to control these pests. Surprise,
surprise, we have dozens of species of song-bird feeding in our garden.
Villagers at the other end are wondering why they have none. Forget the
cats - get a Larsen trap.

I couldn't find corvid in my dictionary!

A member of the crow family

But if you mean the damned tree rats, then these should be destroyed, I have
three traps, but this year, so far, haven't caught a single one, did well
last year and the year before that though.

Maybe you've killed them all and can now relax ;-)
--
Kay

"Easynews" wrote in message
. ..
"Sacha Hubbard" wrote in message
al.net...
On Mon, 29 May 2006 14:21:23 +0100, Derek Turner wrote
(in article ):

Klara wrote:

Since we started summer feeding two years ago, there has been a huge
decline in the numbers of birds and numbers of species coming for the
food: a tenth the number of various kinds of tits and of blackbirds,
etc., and, most worryingly, no parents of any kind feeding young
except
crows, magpies, and jackdaws.

We have two active farms, one at either end of our village. At my end
the farmer is very proactive in destroying corvids to protect his
lambs.
At the other the farmer does nothing to control these pests. Surprise,
surprise, we have dozens of species of song-bird feeding in our garden.
Villagers at the other end are wondering why they have none. Forget the
cats - get a Larsen trap.

We have a very active rookery at the end of our garden and the garden
and
nursery are alive with songbirds. Customers comment frequently on how
tame
they are and how unafraid of the many dozens of people milling around
here
at
times. We feed them all year round, we encourage them in by giving them
plenty of areas in which to nest and by using biological controls in the
greenhouses and wherever possible, in the garden, too. Our rooks (and
jackdaws) are most certainly not reducing our songbird population.


--
Sacha

We have lots of songbirds, including corn bunting and yellowhammer, reed
bunting and whitethroat, sedge warbler and all the regular garden birds,
plus sparrowhawk everyday, buzzards, kestrels, and lots and lots of crows,
rooks, magpies, and a cat next door. Blaming predators for the decline of
songbirds is barking up the wrong tree- improve the habitat, make sure the
food sources are there (insects! yes, even for seed-eating birds in
summer)
and populations will do well, including birds of prey. It is not the
predators which control the prey numbers, it is the prey that controls the
predator numbers. Good numbers of sparrowhawks and buzzards indicates
healthy populations of prey species.
Paul D.



What you say is true, however, a shortage or even complete absence of garden
birds will not 'control' the populations of generalist predators such as
domestic cats, or urban foxes or squirrels, or magpies, because humans
provide them with plenty of alternative food, either deliberately or
accidentally.

"Sacha Hubbard" wrote in message
al.net...
On Mon, 29 May 2006 14:21:23 +0100, Derek Turner wrote
(in article ):

Klara wrote:

Since we started summer feeding two years ago, there has been a huge
decline in the numbers of birds and numbers of species coming for the
food: a tenth the number of various kinds of tits and of blackbirds,
etc., and, most worryingly, no parents of any kind feeding young except
crows, magpies, and jackdaws.

We have two active farms, one at either end of our village. At my end
the farmer is very proactive in destroying corvids to protect his lambs.
At the other the farmer does nothing to control these pests. Surprise,
surprise, we have dozens of species of song-bird feeding in our garden.
Villagers at the other end are wondering why they have none. Forget the
cats - get a Larsen trap.

We have a very active rookery at the end of our garden and the garden and
nursery are alive with songbirds. Customers comment frequently on how
tame
they are and how unafraid of the many dozens of people milling around here
at
times. We feed them all year round, we encourage them in by giving them
plenty of areas in which to nest and by using biological controls in the
greenhouses and wherever possible, in the garden, too. Our rooks (and
jackdaws) are most certainly not reducing our songbird population.



They might not be reducing the populations of other garden birds at your
premises, but jackdaws are opportunistic feeders, their recognised diet
including eggs and hatchlings.

http://www.rspb.org.uk/gardens/guide/atoz/j/jackdaw.asp

The majority of fledglings fail to make it to adulthood, through 'natural
causes', including predation.

"K" wrote in message
...
Alan Holmes writes

"Derek Turner" wrote in message
...
Klara wrote:

Since we started summer feeding two years ago, there has been a huge
decline in the numbers of birds and numbers of species coming for the
food: a tenth the number of various kinds of tits and of blackbirds,
etc., and, most worryingly, no parents of any kind feeding young
except
crows, magpies, and jackdaws.

We have two active farms, one at either end of our village. At my end
the
farmer is very proactive in destroying corvids to protect his lambs. At
the other the farmer does nothing to control these pests. Surprise,
surprise, we have dozens of species of song-bird feeding in our garden.
Villagers at the other end are wondering why they have none. Forget the
cats - get a Larsen trap.

I couldn't find corvid in my dictionary!

A member of the crow family

But if you mean the damned tree rats, then these should be destroyed, I
have
three traps, but this year, so far, haven't caught a single one, did well
last year and the year before that though.

Maybe you've killed them all and can now relax ;-)

More likely, the rodents are outwitting him :-)

Easynews wrote in message
. ..
Blaming predators for the decline of
songbirds is barking up the wrong tree- improve the habitat, make sure the
food sources are there (insects! yes, even for seed-eating birds in
summer)
and populations will do well, including birds of prey.

Of course spraying the garden to buggery just when the greenfly and black
fly and other small aphids emerge doesn't help. Songbirds need insectivorous
high protein foods to rear nestlings. When Mr and Mrs Suburbia throw up
their hands in horror at the sight of a few greenfly on their precious
roses, they rush for their can of chemicals. They can always blame the
decline of the songbird population on someone else like cat
owners/farmers/sqyuirrels/corvids and the like after all.

In message , fenwoman
writes

Easynews wrote in message
...
Blaming predators for the decline of
songbirds is barking up the wrong tree- improve the habitat, make sure the
food sources are there (insects! yes, even for seed-eating birds in
summer)
and populations will do well, including birds of prey.

Of course spraying the garden to buggery just when the greenfly and
black fly and other small aphids emerge doesn't help. Songbirds need
insectivorous high protein foods to rear nestlings. When Mr and Mrs
Suburbia throw up their hands in horror at the sight of a few greenfly
on their precious roses, they rush for their can of chemicals. They can
always blame the decline of the songbird population on someone else
like cat owners/farmers/sqyuirrels/corvids and the like after all.

We have habitat (7 acres of our neighbour's derelict orchard behind us),
we put out food (of course the predators end up with some of it too,
squirrel-proof feeders notwithstanding), neither our garden nor the
orchard have been sprayed in some 30+ years, we're awash in greenfly and
caterpillars, we have lots of corvids and some pheasants (and squirrels
and foxes and deer and badgers...), hardly any cats, just our old tom
who is festooned like a morris dancer and isn't that interested in any
case - all that is missing are the birds we used to have...

--
Klara, Gatwick basin