In article ,
Jane Ransom writes:
|
| A few years ago there was an article in the telegraph about some
| research that had been carried out at great expense to the tax payer.
| The result of this research was that there are fewer birds per square
| area measurement (can't remember what the units were) in areas where
| there were cats than in areas where there were no cats. (Well, I could
| have told them that and saved the tax payer a lot of money!!)
|
| So, when the cat population increases to the extent that there are no
| cat free areas, we can say that cats will have a very definite impact on
| bird populations UK wide!!!!

As I pointed out a while back, that happened some time ago over much
of the UK. We don't have PROOF that cats are a main reason (note
'a' not 'the') for the recent declines, but the evidence is pretty
strong.

We need some lynx!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Recently, Victoria Clare uttered:

Bigjon wrote in
:

What offends me is people walking in here grinding their private axes
on a group unrelated to their particular obsession.
We don't have or need a moderator because we look after ourselves and
give short shrift to those people who try to abuse the group for
their own ends.

Rod

I think both Cats and birds are a very relevant garden forum subject,
but as you obviously dislike cats, you are attempting to troll any cat
lovers. Tough.

Um, I don't think Rod did say that. I think he was pointing out that
giving absolute numbers for birds across the UK don't relate closely to
gardening. And not helpful when posted in such an emotive manner.

The cat/bird debate always gets people riled up, but doesn't achieve much.
None of the research is conclusive, (I consider the small mammals survey
cited elsewhere in this thread particularly flawed) and individual
experiences vary enormously.

Victoria Clare
(5 cats, and pleased to report that kills so far this year = 1 shrew (and a
lot of pingpong balls))

No he didn't.
He originally posted to me:
So?
This is not an appropriate place for posts of this nature.
Lets talk gardening.
I see nothing to justify such a post,
other than either flame, troll or moderation.
Enough said.
Apologies if I offended, but I hate Usenet censorship..
--
\\(º`¿´º)//
It's all on http://support.microsoft.com/ somewhere....
If you can be bothered to look for it....

".....Victoria Clare
(5 cats, and pleased to report that kills so far this year = 1 shrew (and a
lot of pingpong balls))......."

So you are to blame for the Ping-Pong's no longer breading

--
David Hill
Abacus Nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

nightjar wrote in message
.. .

"Jane Ransom" wrote in message
...
In article , nightjar@?.?
writes

'Despite the large numbers of birds killed, there is no scientific
evidence
that predation by cats in gardens is having any impact on bird
populations
UK wide.

Not my words, but those of the RSPB.


Must be right, then ...

"Bigjon" wrote in message .. .
No he didn't.
He originally posted to me:
So?
This is not an appropriate place for posts of this nature.
Lets talk gardening.
I see nothing to justify such a post,
other than either flame, troll or moderation.
Enough said.
Apologies if I offended, but I hate Usenet censorship..
--
If you check my original post you will see that it was in reply to the originator of the thread not to you.
I did check just to be sure as one of our cats had been walking over the keyboard when I typed that first message.

Rod

"Essjay001" wrote in message
...
Rod scribbled:

"Essjay001" wrote in message
...
Just so all the cat lovers know, cats a responsible for 55 MILLION
wild bird deaths per year according to the TV last night.


Ok lets talk gardening. Has any one noticed that there are less wild birds
eating seed heads and and garden pests these days.

Being as the subject of cats often appear here I would say yes this is an
appropriate place.
There cannot be many gardeners that haven't noticed the decline of the
wild
bird population over the last few years.

The decline in wild birds in my garden was due to the influx of magpies,
they
caused the complete destruction of the birds, the cats didn't get a look in.

And, as my cat only seems to catch one or two a year she obviously needs
a few lessons as she is missing out.

Alan
--
Reply to alan(at)windsor-berks(dot)freeserve(dot)co(dot)uk

"BAC" wrote in message
...

nightjar wrote in message
.. .

"Jane Ransom" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nightjar@?.?
writes

'Despite the large numbers of birds killed, there is no scientific
evidence
that predation by cats in gardens is having any impact on bird
populations
UK wide.

Not my words, but those of the RSPB.


Must be right, then ...

It is not inconsistent with the claim that areas with cats have fewer birds.
The RSPB also points out that there is evidence that cats tend to take birds
that are sickly or weak and concludes that the majority of those caught by
cats would probably not have survived to breed the next season. It is the
number of breeding birds that determines the threat, or lack of threat to
the bird population. If an area with cats does have fewer birds, then if the
population also comprises a higher proportion of breeding birds, but fewer
weak or sickly birds, both statements can be correct.

Colin Bignell

nightjar wrote in message
. ..

"BAC" wrote in message
...

nightjar wrote in message
.. .

"Jane Ransom" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nightjar@?.?
writes

'Despite the large numbers of birds killed, there is no scientific
evidence
that predation by cats in gardens is having any impact on bird
populations
UK wide.

Not my words, but those of the RSPB.


Must be right, then ...

It is not inconsistent with the claim that areas with cats have fewer
birds.
The RSPB also points out that there is evidence that cats tend to take
birds
that are sickly or weak and concludes that the majority of those caught by
cats would probably not have survived to breed the next season. It is the
number of breeding birds that determines the threat, or lack of threat to
the bird population. If an area with cats does have fewer birds, then if
the
population also comprises a higher proportion of breeding birds, but fewer
weak or sickly birds, both statements can be correct.


I don't doubt it. Culling/predation seems more likely to affect the average
age and fitness of a population, rather than the numbers of the pre-breeding
'prey' population, providing there is some sort of balance.

However, the population density of domestic cats has nothing to do with the
carrying capacity of their territories, so, in areas where cats are thick on
the ground, there seems likely to be a disproportionately high level of
predation.

I would be surprised if cat predation were not 'a' factor in the observed
decline of certain species in some locations.

In article , Alan Holmes alan@holmes-
g4crw.freeserve.co.uk writes

The decline in wild birds in my garden was due to the influx of magpies,
they
caused the complete destruction of the birds, the cats didn't get a look in.

How do you know that Alan?

--
David

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
| A few years ago there was an article in the telegraph about some
| research that had been carried out at great expense to the tax payer.
| The result of this research was that there are fewer birds per square
| area measurement (can't remember what the units were) in areas where
| there were cats than in areas where there were no cats. (Well, I could
| have told them that and saved the tax payer a lot of money!!)
|
| So, when the cat population increases to the extent that there are no
| cat free areas, we can say that cats will have a very definite impact on
| bird populations UK wide!!!!

As I pointed out a while back, that happened some time ago over much
of the UK. We don't have PROOF that cats are a main reason (note
'a' not 'the') for the recent declines, but the evidence is pretty
strong.

We need some lynx!

And with the loss of habitat and effects of pesticides etc the cat
threat may be just one enemy too far...
--
David

In article ,
says...

nightjar wrote in message
. ..

snippety


I don't doubt it. Culling/predation seems more likely to affect the average
age and fitness of a population, rather than the numbers of the pre-breeding
'prey' population, providing there is some sort of balance.

However, the population density of domestic cats has nothing to do with the
carrying capacity of their territories, so, in areas where cats are thick on
the ground, there seems likely to be a disproportionately high level of
predation.

I would be surprised if cat predation were not 'a' factor in the observed

Obviously difficult to find out without a big survey door to door in
conjunction with one of the population surveys, but other than the
minute cost, is there any reason why *every* cat collar doesn't have a
small bell attached as standard?

Our black cat used to come home with the odd mouse a number of years
back and her success rate dropped to 0 once we belled her collar. I
would guess that even the slower birds that do get caught would be
warier of hopping around on a lawn where there's a tinkling noise coming
from the shrubs.

Warwick

"David" wrote in message
...
In article , Alan Holmes alan@holmes-
g4crw.freeserve.co.uk writes

The decline in wild birds in my garden was due to the influx of magpies,
they
caused the complete destruction of the birds, the cats didn't get a look
in.

How do you know that Alan?

I missed this the first time round.

I and a friend have witnessed magpies attacking small birds nests, and
when the magpies moved into our garden there was a good surplus of
small birds but after a short while the small bird population dissapeared.
Work it out for yourself!

The cats were there for years before the magpies and there were a
large number of small birds in spite of the cats.

Alan
--
Reply to alan(at)windsor-berks(dot)freeserve(dot)co(dot)uk

Alan Holmes wrote:

"David" wrote in message
...
In article , Alan Holmes alan@holmes-
g4crw.freeserve.co.uk writes

The decline in wild birds in my garden was due to the influx of magpies,
they
caused the complete destruction of the birds, the cats didn't get a look
in.

How do you know that Alan?

I missed this the first time round.

I and a friend have witnessed magpies attacking small birds nests, and
when the magpies moved into our garden there was a good surplus of
small birds but after a short while the small bird population dissapeared.
Work it out for yourself!

The cats were there for years before the magpies and there were a
large number of small birds in spite of the cats.

Alan
--
Reply to alan(at)windsor-berks(dot)freeserve(dot)co(dot)uk

My story is the reverse. I live near Norwich and the area i live in used
to have several cats these have disappeared in recent years and i saw my
first one in 6 months last week !

A couple of years ago I saw my first Magpie and now i see them everyday
in nearby trees.

But i am now seeing more and more common birds like the Blackbird (my
favourite), starlings which I hate, and umpteen sparrows.

If i hear another person or the RSPB mention again that the sparrow
population is declining I'll ask if they would like to call and clear up
the mess they make in the garden with dust baths, eating plant leaves,
mess etc. .

Mike.