Can I use quicklime to help break up clay soil?
I meant to buy slaked lime but accidentally bought quicklime instead (I live
in Normandy and haven't mastered all the French gardening words yet :-).

The veg plot had been a lawn/grassland for many years until I rotorvated it
this Spring and set potatoes, but digging them up now is a nightmare - the
soil has a high clay content and with the hot weather it has baked into huge
clumps. I almost need a pick to get the spuds out!

Since nothing will be planted there again until next Spring can I apply lime
now?
I also plan to ask a neighbouring farmer to see if he can supply a trailer
or two of "merde" for the plot! Does anyone know if manure should be applied
before or after liming or doesn't it matter?

Any advice welcome.

PS - does anyone know how to spell "rotorvating" - my spellchecker doesn't
know either?
--
David
.... Email address on website http://www.avisoft.co.uk
.... Blog at http://dlts-french-adventures.blogspot.com/

In article ,
"David \(in Normandy\)" writes:
|
| Can I use quicklime to help break up clay soil?
| I meant to buy slaked lime but accidentally bought quicklime instead (I live
| in Normandy and haven't mastered all the French gardening words yet :-).

Well, yes, but watch out for that stuff! You REALLY don't want to breathe
any of it or get any near your eyes, and it will get very hot when any
dampness gets near it. You need it to get rained on or water it before
it blows around. I wouldn't handle it myself.

| Since nothing will be planted there again until next Spring can I apply lime
| now?

Yup.

| I also plan to ask a neighbouring farmer to see if he can supply a trailer
| or two of "merde" for the plot! Does anyone know if manure should be applied
| before or after liming or doesn't it matter?

It doesn't matter.

| PS - does anyone know how to spell "rotorvating" - my spellchecker doesn't
| know either?

Rotovate - it's a brand name, used as a common word, like Macintosh,
Hoover or Kleenex.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 1/8/06 18:41, in article , "Nick
Maclaren" wrote:


In article ,
"David \(in Normandy\)" writes:
|
| Can I use quicklime to help break up clay soil?
| I meant to buy slaked lime but accidentally bought quicklime instead (I
live
| in Normandy and haven't mastered all the French gardening words yet :-).

Well, yes, but watch out for that stuff! You REALLY don't want to breathe
any of it or get any near your eyes, and it will get very hot when any
dampness gets near it. You need it to get rained on or water it before
it blows around. I wouldn't handle it myself.
snip

I seem to recall that while Jersey farmers lime their fields, there is some
caution to be applied other than that. Too much lime produces potato
scab....I think? And harking back to a much earlier thread on the subject
of lime, slaked lime preserves, quick lime destroys - thank you, Dornford
Yates!

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(email address on website)

snip slaked lime preserves, quick lime destroys

Thanks Nick and Sacha.

I'll apply the quicklime as soon as I've managed to chisel the potatoes out,
then leave it for a month or two for the pH to stabilize and hopefully the
quicklime will have aged into slaked lime / calcium carbonate by then. I
guess it may be sensible to add the manure after rather than before the
liming as this should stimulate microbial life back into the soil after
"nuking" it with the quicklime.
--
David
.... Email address on website http://www.avisoft.co.uk
.... Blog at http://dlts-french-adventures.blogspot.com/

On 1 Aug 2006 17:41:00 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


In article ,
"David \(in Normandy\)" writes:
|
| Can I use quicklime to help break up clay soil?
| I meant to buy slaked lime but accidentally bought quicklime instead (I live
| in Normandy and haven't mastered all the French gardening words yet :-).

Well, yes, but watch out for that stuff! You REALLY don't want to breathe
any of it or get any near your eyes, and it will get very hot when any
dampness gets near it. You need it to get rained on or water it before
it blows around. I wouldn't handle it myself.

| Since nothing will be planted there again until next Spring can I apply lime
| now?

Yup.

| I also plan to ask a neighbouring farmer to see if he can supply a trailer
| or two of "merde" for the plot! Does anyone know if manure should be applied
| before or after liming or doesn't it matter?

It doesn't matter.

'In Theory' and what is recommended for farmers etc. they should be
applied with a reasonable time interval between, probably a few months
(e.g. lime now, merde in spring or vice versa), because the alkalinity
of the lime will displace ammonia from the merde and decrease it's
fertiliser value. In practice, it's probably as NM says.

But also as NM says, quicklime is really nasty stuff and can cause
serious burns to eyes, lungs and skin. You should take extreme
precautions when handling it. In the laboratories where I used to
work, on the rare occasion that quicklime was handled in significant
quantities, they used to put on full chemical protection suits. That
may be OTT, but it is nasty stuff.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

David (in Normandy) wrote:
Can I use quicklime to help break up clay soil?
I meant to buy slaked lime but accidentally bought quicklime instead
(I live in Normandy and haven't mastered all the French gardening
words yet :-).
The veg plot had been a lawn/grassland for many years until I
rotorvated it this Spring and set potatoes, but digging them up now
is a nightmare - the soil has a high clay content and with the hot
weather it has baked into huge clumps. I almost need a pick to get
the spuds out!
Since nothing will be planted there again until next Spring can I
apply lime now?
I also plan to ask a neighbouring farmer to see if he can supply a
trailer or two of "merde" for the plot! Does anyone know if manure
should be applied before or after liming or doesn't it matter?

There seems to be advice on the lime elsewhere.

I live on a clay area in Suffolk. Not as hot as Normandy, but possibly
considerably drier. I have added a lot of horse manure to the plot, and a
fair amount of lime each year. I don't worry too much about mixing the two
if ncessary. My copy of the Vegetable Expert has some advice on which crops
shouldn't be limed, which I usually follow.

If you can get horse much where the horses were bedded on straw, that's a
lot better than the more common wood-chip bedding. And keep some of the
muck in a pile, mix with only a little soil, and grow the most massive no
maintenance squash, courgette, pumpkins, etc. next year.

If you're getting a lot of dry baking of soil, next year get some grass
clippings or other similar material to lay around your crops; it helps keep
moisture in the soil and stops the worst of the clay-pan forming.


- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

David (in Normandy) wrote:
snip slaked lime preserves, quick lime destroys

Thanks Nick and Sacha.

I'll apply the quicklime as soon as I've managed to chisel the potatoes out,
then leave it for a month or two for the pH to stabilize and hopefully the
quicklime will have aged into slaked lime / calcium carbonate by then. I
guess it may be sensible to add the manure after rather than before the
liming as this should stimulate microbial life back into the soil after
"nuking" it with the quicklime.

I think you reallly ought to read the English language MSDS safety
datasheet for quicklime first and get the right personal protective
equipment before you do anything.

http://www.cockburncement.com.au/pro...24-11-2003.pdf

for instance

Quicklime is used for annihilating dead animals with nasty contageous
diseases. You really do need good eye protection and a dust mask at
the very minimum and you don't want to get the dust on your skin
either. It makes any water boil on contact.

Slaked lime is relatively benign - quick lime is vicious stuff.

One thing you should be aware of in France and Belgium is that it is
possible to buy some very dangerous chemicals off the shelf. Scariest I
ever came across was 40% hydrofluoric acid sold as a greenhouse glass
cleaner for grape growers. The packaging made it look like pink
paraffin at first glance. I put it down again very carefully.

Regards,
Martin Brown

But also as NM says, quicklime is really nasty stuff and can cause
serious burns to eyes, lungs and skin. You should take extreme
precautions when handling it.

Yes, I know it's nasty stuff and plan to treat it with considerable respect.
The thing that surprised me was that I could actually walk into a garden
centre here and casually buy a 50kg sack of quicklime.
It wasn't until I got it home that I noticed it was marked 92% CaO, 1% MgO
then I realised I'd bought quicklime instead of slaked lime (CaOH). There
are no hazard warning labels on the sack.

It seems strange that some trivial things here in France are heavily
restricted and regulated but other more hazardous items are freely
available. For example, the local garden centre also has a large selection
of "jin" traps! These traps have been illegal in the UK for years. I'm not
sure what they are intended to "catch", but the larger ones look powerful
enough to chop an unwary foot off!
--
David
.... Email address on website http://www.avisoft.co.uk
.... Blog at http://dlts-french-adventures.blogspot.com/

One thing you should be aware of in France and Belgium is that it is
possible to buy some very dangerous chemicals off the shelf.

Yes. I noticed the local DIY store has containers of concentrated Sulphuric
acid for sale. Why? It isn't the sort of thing I'd expect to see outside of
a laboratory or chemical works. Especially nowadays I'd expect such things
to be more restricted since Conc. Sulphuric can easily be used as the base
ingredient to make all the other chemicals needed to make many high
explosives!

"David (in Normandy)" wrote
But also as NM says, quicklime is really nasty stuff and can cause
serious burns to eyes, lungs and skin. You should take extreme
precautions when handling it.

Yes, I know it's nasty stuff and plan to treat it with considerable
respect.
The thing that surprised me was that I could actually walk into a garden
centre here and casually buy a 50kg sack of quicklime.
It wasn't until I got it home that I noticed it was marked 92% CaO, 1% MgO
then I realised I'd bought quicklime instead of slaked lime (CaOH). There
are no hazard warning labels on the sack.

It seems strange that some trivial things here in France are heavily
restricted and regulated but other more hazardous items are freely
available. For example, the local garden centre also has a large selection
of "jin" traps! These traps have been illegal in the UK for years. I'm not
sure what they are intended to "catch", but the larger ones look powerful
enough to chop an unwary foot off!

Well you can also buy "Eau de vie" (spelling?) alcohol to preserve your
fruit in and thereby make interesting drinks. I also found Awotrol (kills
rust, runs into gaps, seals) in a French supermarket, you have to go to a
specialist vehicle restorer/paintshop over here. No chance of the local
Sainsbury's selling either of those here.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
17mls W. of London.UK

"David (in Normandy)" wrote in message

Can I use quicklime to help break up clay soil?

Have you checked your pH level? Dolomite may be a better option
depending on your pH. But given that you already have the lime.......

David (in Normandy) wrote:
But also as NM says, quicklime is really nasty stuff and can cause
serious burns to eyes, lungs and skin. You should take extreme
precautions when handling it.

Yes, I know it's nasty stuff and plan to treat it with considerable respect.
The thing that surprised me was that I could actually walk into a garden
centre here and casually buy a 50kg sack of quicklime.
It wasn't until I got it home that I noticed it was marked 92% CaO, 1% MgO
then I realised I'd bought quicklime instead of slaked lime (CaOH). There
are no hazard warning labels on the sack.
[...]

Not a subject I've ever had to talk about in French, but the faithful
Robert & Collins Senior tells me quicklime is, unsurprisingly, "chaux
vive". Slaked lime is "chaux éteinte". Meanwhile, my sympathies.
Personally, I'd park the bag in an odd corner and forget about it for a
year, and pop down to the shop again and get some craie, calcaire, ou
dolomie en poudre (I suppose that's what they call them: they get a few
Google.fr hits), "Mais pas, vous savez, m'sieu, de la chaux vive."

--
Mike.

Not a subject I've ever had to talk about in French, but the faithful
Robert & Collins Senior tells me quicklime is, unsurprisingly, "chaux
vive". Slaked lime is "chaux éteinte". Meanwhile, my sympathies.
Personally, I'd park the bag in an odd corner and forget about it for a
year, and pop down to the shop again and get some craie, calcaire, ou
dolomie en poudre (I suppose that's what they call them: they get a few
Google.fr hits), "Mais pas, vous savez, m'sieu, de la chaux vive."
--
Mike.

Thanks for the translation. I'll know what to ask for next time!
I asked for "Chaux pour la jardin" last time, but it never occurred to me
that I'd be given anything other than slaked lime.
David.

David (in Normandy) wrote:

Hi David

You should not apply lime to your already alkaline soil. Gypsum
and organic matter Merde should be tilled in in large quantities.

Derryl Killan


Can I use quicklime to help break up clay soil?
I meant to buy slaked lime but accidentally bought quicklime instead (I live
in Normandy and haven't mastered all the French gardening words yet :-).

The veg plot had been a lawn/grassland for many years until I rotorvated it
this Spring and set potatoes, but digging them up now is a nightmare - the
soil has a high clay content and with the hot weather it has baked into huge
clumps. I almost need a pick to get the spuds out!

Since nothing will be planted there again until next Spring can I apply lime
now?
I also plan to ask a neighbouring farmer to see if he can supply a trailer
or two of "merde" for the plot! Does anyone know if manure should be applied
before or after liming or doesn't it matter?

Any advice welcome.

PS - does anyone know how to spell "rotorvating" - my spellchecker doesn't
know either?